ON3P Billy Goat Vs. Other Powder Skis

[Rideski]

I hope it snows enough this year for me to remount some binders on my OG BG's, or for me to start doing some traveling.

I've hit some massive rocks and sticks with those, nothing more than a minor scratch. Originally mounted them with frame bindings, and at the time was in some too large weak flex touring boots.

Ditched that whole idea and went skinnier without the need for so much float here. But looking forward to driving them with alpine alpine boots and binders on a deep day for some fun turns.

[kid-kapow]

Why does everyone want lighter skis? I say make them heavier.

I could not agree more... No way do I want a light/lighter ski for the resort... Backcountry touring I get it, but small side country no thanks...

ah, so we are on the same page for the most part - all three - as the premise of the question is for touring, not exclusive resort riding where weight is not an issue. Aka going downhill / ski characteristics is still the overarching focus here, if not one would not go touring on ON3Ps in the first place.

That being said, if excess epoxy adds weight, and less means that other fun things can be put inside the skis like titanal or more glass while still keeping the weight competitive, then why not max out on the weight spending where it gives the most bang for buck? Besides, I've always loved die cut bases as well, so thought i should ask. Now that Iggy has explained that weights between skis for the most part is pretty consistent, the aforementioned epoxy fluctuations becomes less of an actual and more of an imaginary issue.

^Have you tried frame bindings

snicker

[Muggydude]

I’ll make it easy for you.

If you want a ski solely for powder days get a Protest or C&D.

If you want a ski for powder days plus a day or two after, get a Billy goat, GPO, Quixote, or Wildcat (Bibby)

Just buy whichever ski you can get a good deal on in your size.


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Got to collect them all, own them all

Only one I still need is the Bibby

[mr_pretzel]

ah, so we are on the same page for the most part - all three - as the premise of the question is for touring, not exclusive resort riding where weight is not an issue. Aka going downhill / ski characteristics is still the overarching focus here, if not one would not go touring on ON3Ps in the first place.

That being said, if excess epoxy adds weight, and less means that other fun things can be put inside the skis like titanal or more glass while still keeping the weight competitive, then why not max out on the weight spending where it gives the most bang for buck? Besides, I've always loved die cut bases as well, so thought i should ask. Now that Iggy has explained that weights between skis for the most part is pretty consistent, the aforementioned epoxy fluctuations becomes less of an actual and more of an imaginary issue.



snicker

Am I wrong in thinking epoxy also makes a ski damper? I’m pretty sure Stockli has som patented epoxy they use in their skis which is part of why they used to be so solid.

Iggy?

[TahoeJ]

Why does everyone want lighter skis? I say make them heavier.

There's a happy balancing point. Heavier skis wear your legs out faster, even in the resort. Too light can also wear your legs out since they put more of the work on you when you're skiing chop. Having said that, I don't think ON3P's are too heavy... except maybe the C&D's from a few years back (which are now lighter).

[ACH]

There's a happy balancing point. Heavier skis wear your legs out faster, even in the resort. Too light can also wear your legs out since they put more of the work on you when you're skiing chop. Having said that, I don't think ON3P's are too heavy... except maybe the C&D's from a few years back (which are now lighter).

Yup, the law of diminishing returns starts to kick in, on either end of the spectrum.
That said, my BG 191's are the heaviest thing in my quiver and that is actually saying something considering I have a pair of 190 Explosiv's with some LAB 916's.

[RickySixx]

Why does everyone want lighter skis? I say make them heavier.

Where's the fucking like button?

[lucknau]

Where's the fucking like button?

If it was in your butt you'd know.

[RickySixx]

If it was in your butt you'd know.

I just really liked that idea. So many companies getting rid of weight in the skis. I understand that the tech is getting better, but still I want a 5kg with all that tech.

[Vitamin I]

I just really liked that idea. So many companies getting rid of weight in the skis. I understand that the tech is getting better, but still I want a 5kg with all that tech.

If you tell us which precise "tech" you are looking for in a heavy ski, maybe we can suggest a ski for you. For example, a 2017-18 4FRNT Devastator 194cm is both heavy (>2600g per ski) and not so old (2 years old).

.

[PeachesNCream]

Ski in the Boise area with trips out to Bozeman, SLC, and Targhee/Jackson. I’m looking for an 8”+ of new snow ski. I have the MVP for everything else. Terrain: lots of trees, some very tight, sometimes low angle, but seek out steep terrain when I can find it. Looking for a ski that likes to go fast in the trees, be lots of fun in the 6-12” of new days, and also eat up chop. I do up to 20’ cliffs but not much of a spinner/flipper. 6’3, 205lbs. I posted in the ON3P forum but they may be biased. Still, the BG is the obvious choice here right? I was originally thinking of going with something a little wider underfoot but I’ve read the BGs ski bigger than they are and I also want a ski that is fun on the 8” days as well as the 2’ days. Thoughts?

[MHSP1497]

Ski in the Boise area with trips out to Bozeman, SLC, and Targhee/Jackson. I’m looking for an 8”+ of new snow ski. I have the MVP for everything else. Terrain: lots of trees, some very tight, sometimes low angle, but seek out steep terrain when I can find it. Looking for a ski that likes to go fast in the trees, be lots of fun in the 6-12” of new days, and also eat up chop. I do up to 20’ cliffs but not much of a spinner/flipper. 6’3, 205lbs. I posted in the ON3P forum but they may be biased. Still, the BG is the obvious choice here right? I was originally thinking of going with something a little wider underfoot but I’ve read the BGs ski bigger than they are and I also want a ski that is fun on the 8” days as well as the 2’ days. Thoughts?

You want the Cease & Desist’s here... Billygoat’s are awesome in the condition you describe, but I’ve found the Cease & Desist better, especially in low-angle. They’re basically a fatter Billygoat anyway (there are subtle differences, but they’re minor).

[PeachesNCream]

You want the Cease & Desist’s here... Billygoat’s are awesome in the condition you describe, but I’ve found the Cease & Desist better, especially in low-angle. They’re basically a fatter Billygoat anyway (there are subtle differences, but they’re minor).

I was wondering that as well, especially since I'm a larger person but I ended up thinking BG due to the tight trees and our powder days are mostly in the in the 6-12" range. I don't want this ski to be so big it's a 3x a year ski. How versatile is the C&D? Is the C&D going to be nice and "turny" like the BG is known for? Is one of them going to want to go faster than the other (in tight trees)?

[MHSP1497]

I was wondering that as well, especially since I'm a larger person but I ended up thinking BG due to the tight trees and our powder days are mostly in the in the 6-12" range. I don't want this ski to be so big it's a 3x a year ski. How versatile is the C&D? Is the C&D going to be nice and "turny" like the BG is known for? Is one of them going to want to go faster than the other (in tight trees)?

Honestly, I don’t find it difficult at all and the width isn’t all that noticeable. I ski them in tight trees without issue, same terrain I’ve ridden the Goats and can’t say there’s much of a difference. In soft snow (anything over 2”) the RES design makes them handle really well. I haven’t found a situation yet where I’ve wished for the Goats over the Cease & Desist, to the point that my Goats haven’t seen snow in over a year. I put 16 days on the Cease & Desist’s last year, they were that much fun... The Billygoat’s are an awesome ski, no doubt and you can’t really go wrong, but in low-angle terrain I’ve found they “plow” whereas the Cease & Desist plane a bit better.

[SkiLyft]

Honestly, I don’t find it difficult at all and the width isn’t all that noticeable. I ski them in tight trees without issue, same terrain I’ve ridden the Goats and can’t say there’s much of a difference. In soft snow (anything over 2”) the RES design makes them handle really well. I haven’t found a situation yet where I’ve wished for the Goats over the Cease & Desist, to the point that my Goats haven’t seen snow in over a year. I put 16 days on the Cease & Desist’s last year, they were that much fun... The Billygoat’s are an awesome ski, no doubt and you can’t really go wrong, but in low-angle terrain I’ve found they “plow” whereas the Cease & Desist plane a bit better.

This is very interesting perspective - 4 days on the C&D all >8” and a wide variety of snow types and honestly feel like my goats could have ski’d all those conditions equally as good. You’re more “in it” vs “on it” with goats but I suppose that’s what I like more about them. I’ll see how things play out but looking like my C&Ds will see less day than I had originally thought based on your comments when you first got yours, again stoked you click with em but maybe it’s my love of my goats after 2 years of daily driving.

So far C&Ds for cat trips and 8-12” on week days and when it won’t get shralped by 10:30. Otherwise goats just eat up the 3D snow that’s left over once the masses chew it up.


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[MHSP1497]

This is very interesting perspective - 4 days on the C&D all >8” and a wide variety of snow types and honestly feel like my goats could have ski’d all those conditions equally as good. You’re more “in it” vs “on it” with goats but I suppose that’s what I like more about them. I’ll see how things play out but looking like my C&Ds will see less day than I had originally thought based on your comments when you first got yours, again stoked you click with em but maybe it’s my love of my goats after 2 years of daily driving.

So far C&Ds for cat trips and 8-12” on week days and when it won’t get shralped by 10:30. Otherwise goats just eat up the 3D snow that’s left over once the masses chew it up.


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I think, for me, it comes down to 2 differences between “my” Billygoat’s and Cease & Desist’s: the Goats are 184’s and the C&D’s are 189 + the difference in core profiles. For my build (6’ 175lbs) I really jive with the touring core profile of the Cease & Desist’s. The rounder flex and the slight difference in manner makes all the difference. I don’t know that the asym has a lot to do with it, as I never found the tails of the Goat’s all that hard to move around. I also enjoy the “on it” versus “in it” feeling which is an entirely subjective element as well. I guess the only real answer is there is no “perfect ski” for 2 totally different people.

[mtskibum16]

So far C&Ds for cat trips and 8-12” on week days

Would have loved to try them at WP Tuesday! That said, the goats didn't leave me wishing for something different.

[SkiLyft]

I guess the only real answer is there is no “perfect ski” for 2 totally different people.

I’ll cheers to that, that’s why it’s so challenging interpreting what people write on here to what you’ll think of a specific ski.

Couple days points
- 205#
- 6ft

Current gen 189 goat
Current gen 189 C&D


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[comish]

My $.02 in this debate is think about how you like to ski. If you ski remotely centered the BG is awesome, quick, versatile. If you like to drive the tips, old skool style, you will overpower the BG tips and not find true love (That is me). Can't opine on the C&D v BG.

Only other thing to add is I don't find ON3P's particularly damp. I find once things get chewed up and bumpier they tend to almost bounce rather than absorb like a metal laminate ski would.

I'm 5'9, 160 and have skied the BG, Wren 108's, and bigger Wren 114 I think it is.

[2FUNKY]

For pure pow, Protest and not even close.
Chopped interior pow, BG is a sick ski but my custom heavy core stiff flex Lhasa Fat kill it and then some.
Maritime pow, again Protest.
Chopped maritime, BG rules but if room to roam the Lhasa kills it. It just needs roooooom.
If I lived with in a maritime climate and could only have one it would be the BG. I actually wouldn’t mind adding them back into the quiver. There are a couple days a year i would ski them but for those couple days it’s not worth it right now. But having just one is no fun so, quivers rule.

[steveski]

If I lived with in a maritime climate and could only have one it would be the BG. I actually wouldn’t mind adding them back into the quiver. There are a couple days a year i would ski them but for those couple days it’s not worth it right now. But having just one is no fun so, quivers rule.

^this. There are to many good skis, which makes it hard to even keep one pair each of "the top five favorites"

[mtskibum16]

I really need to get on some Protests sometime.