3 checked bags=$380

[DBdude]

I'll just put this on the MM expense account.

maybe they will take a tee shirt

[Buster Highmen]

Air France.

Weird, they never charged me before and I just confirmed my current ticket with KLM/AF : 1 checked bag is included and skis are defined as conventional, so no fees.
Are they charging you for each bag, e.g. no checked baggage at all included?

[Ted Striker]

Ask a pilot:

Are airlines really buying different fuel quantities per trip based on actual passenger + baggage load?

Or is this just a bunch of nickel/dime fuckery to milk dollars out of the travelers who need to bring more than overnight clothing?

This is the whole point...is it just a story to sell the upcharges or are airlines actually fine tuning their operations at this level?

For non-American airlines, fuel is planned down to the 100 kilos level for all-up weight - basically 33 us gallons - so yes, airlines really are buying more fuel to lift more weight. And here's the rub: it takes fuel to lift fuel. So if a flight needs an extra ton of fuel for load, headwinds, weather, etc., they will have to board something like 1.1 tons (aircraft type dependent). And for the actual flight, fuel is planned right to the minute.

Money from upcharges is the driver for sure.

But this is also undeniably true.

[Timberridge]

For non-American airlines, fuel is planned down to the 100 kilos level for all-up weight - basically 33 us gallons - so yes, airlines really are buying more fuel to lift more weight. And here's the rub: it takes fuel to lift fuel. So if a flight needs an extra ton of fuel for load, headwinds, weather, etc., they will have to board something like 1.1 tons (aircraft type dependent). And for the actual flight, fuel is planned right to the minute.

I'm beginning to think nobody watched the video I posted on this last week starring Capt. Raps.

[Ted Striker]

What most of the airlines have done recently is added additional rows of seats inside the passenger jets packing them in tighter together with less leg room for each passenger. You'll notice it by the fact that the seats no longer line up with the windows in coach and business class.

The seats have never lined up with the windows. For instance, a B737-8 has 43 windows on each side, but never has more than 31.5 rows because 189 passengers is the max certified capacity.

[The AD]

Window spacing is tied to frame spacing in the fuselage. On Boeing planes this is typically 20-21 inches. The windows are always centered between two adjacent frames.

[SumJongGuy]

Well they're definitely adding seats, both rows and columns. 737 vs 737 max adds a row at the back and half a row at the front.



They're also adding columns..



The point is they're packing more people in to the same sized plane.. That's more people weight. More people weight translates to less baggage weight right?

[Foggy_Goggles]

No. That is not the point. You made a statement as if it was fact. A pilot called BS on you. You don't get to make up facts just because your conclusion is correct. Own it.

[SumJongGuy]

No. That is not the point. You made a statement as if it was fact. A pilot called BS on you. You don't get to make up facts just because your conclusion is correct. Own it.

See above. I've posted documentation proving they ARE adding rows. Last time I flew the windows didn't line up with the seats. Not a Boeing jet though, it was an Embraer ERJ-145. It was pretty lame. No way to open a window shade without also blasting the person behind me or in front of me. I'm betting that is because they added rows and moved the seat row up/back a few inches to do so.

[SumJongGuy]

Window spacing is tied to frame spacing in the fuselage. On Boeing planes this is typically 20-21 inches. The windows are always centered between two adjacent frames.

Well duh, they aren't moving the windows. They're moving seats closer together

[Foggy_Goggles]

No shit seats have been added. I took issue with the whole "my conclusion is correct so I get so assert incorrect statements" logic. Then you doubled down when a pilot and long time poster call you on it.

It's a peave of mine when people won't either admit then are wrong or just make shit up. You could have said, "thats interesting about plane design and the number of windows vs. the number of rows of seats" but you didn't.

Now you think I'm the asshole.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Well duh, they aren't moving the windows. They're moving seats closer together

OK, now I feel like I should go easy on you because you are just dense. Sorry. Carry on.

[Timberridge]

He's not going down w/o a fight.

[SumJongGuy]

No shit seats have been added. I took issue with the whole "my conclusion is correct so I get so assert incorrect statements" logic. Then you doubled down when a pilot and long time poster call you on it.

It's a peave of mine when people won't either admit then are wrong or just make shit up. You could have said, "thats interesting about plane design and the number of windows vs. the number of rows of seats" but you didn't.

Now you think I'm the asshole.

OK, fair enough. It does seem that the rows added on the Boeing wouldn't move the other seats up or back to that's spot on with what Piste said

[powpig]

I've had this idea for a couple years, a big overcoat with a bunch of pockets for clothing. You'd look like the Michelin man waddling up to the gate but with 20-30 lbs of stuff, it could easily lessen the need for at least one bag. Just throw it in the overhead bin. Not gonna help with skis obviously.
Now I didn't say this was a good idea, but with Dex talkin' $400-$600 in baggage fees (each way?), it's just a matter of time before someone tries something similar.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I'm a pretty frequent Southwest traveler and I am generally a fan. The really enforce the two carry ons. If you purchase take out for the plane, it needs to go inside another bag. A couple of weeks ago, I watched a guy shove a sammy, chips and cookies into the pockets of his pants. There was no conflict and both he and the gate agent were laughing.

[::: :::]

For non-American airlines, fuel is planned down to the 100 kilos level for all-up weight - basically 33 us gallons - so yes, airlines really are buying more fuel to lift more weight. And here's the rub: it takes fuel to lift fuel. So if a flight needs an extra ton of fuel for load, headwinds, weather, etc., they will have to board something like 1.1 tons (aircraft type dependent). And for the actual flight, fuel is planned right to the minute.



But this is also undeniably true.

Thanks

[adrenalated]

For non-American airlines, fuel is planned down to the 100 kilos level for all-up weight - basically 33 us gallons - so yes, airlines really are buying more fuel to lift more weight. And here's the rub: it takes fuel to lift fuel. So if a flight needs an extra ton of fuel for load, headwinds, weather, etc., they will have to board something like 1.1 tons (aircraft type dependent). And for the actual flight, fuel is planned right to the minute.

Weighing checked baggage before it goes on the plane seems easy enough. How do you estimate or measure passenger and carryon weight?

[The AD]

Well duh, they aren't moving the windows. They're moving seats closer together

The point is they never lined up unless the airline set the seat pitch to be the same as the frame spacing.

[JimmyCarter]

Pushing $40 billion in worldwide profit tells me that that $7.50 is just fine--I'm guessing in our case they're making $7.50 profit plus about $60 profit per bag, so closer to $300 profit plus $7.50/person (I'm also going to guess Air France is squeezing out more than $7.50 from just the tickets).

https://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pa...-12-05-01.aspx

Geneva - The International Air Transport Association (IATA) forecasts global industry net profit to rise to $38.4 billion in 2018, an improvement from the $34.5 billion expected net profit in 2017 (revised from a $31.4 billion forecast in June).

Thats for 4 billion passengers carried. You could have just said you don't understand really big numbers.

[iceman]

Just wait until they get rid of the windows (not kidding, they want to).

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...rplanes-future

[Jong Lafitte]

Just wait until they get rid of the windows (not kidding, they want to).

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...rplanes-future

Woah!!! those ideas are pretty cool. I like this one:

"In CPI's design, the firm imagines replacing windows with low-energy OLEDs (organic light-emitting diodes) that could use cameras to realistically broadcast the outside environment in a panoramic view that could be toggled on or off by the passengers."

I'd hope you could render other things, like, "freaky lightning storm with gremlin on the wing," "flying too close to the ground" or "under attack by russian migs" have like a whole 'adventure' play out for the passengers, Navy interceptors show up... I like this. Spoiler - the windows 10 screen saver comes on at the really good part.

[SumJongGuy]

The point is they never lined up unless the airline set the seat pitch to be the same as the frame spacing.

99.99999% of the planes I've flown in over the past 50 years had a window next to the window seat. Ya, it may not have been centered "perfectly" but it was there next to the seat. The last plane I flew on, with ZERO legroom, had the windows right next to the seat backs with bare wall next to the "window seat". There was a window right at the back of the seat in front of me and there was a window right at my seat back behind me. I sat in two different rows on this trip, same thing all over the plane in coach.

[doebedoe]

99.99999% of the planes I've flown in over the past 50 years had a window next to the window seat. Ya, it may not have been centered "perfectly" but it was there next to the seat. The last plane I flew on, with ZERO legroom, had the windows right next to the seat backs with bare wall next to the "window seat". There was a window right at the back of the seat in front of me and there was a window right at my seat back behind me. I sat in two different rows on this trip, same thing all over the plane in coach.

You’ve flown in a lot of planes to get to that amount of accuracy.

I’ve had lots of misalignments in my time. But I’m just a youngin.

[muted]

Just wait until they get rid of the windows (not kidding, they want to).

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...rplanes-future

"A year or two ago, on a Transatlantic flight from Europe to New York, I remember flying over Greenland, close enough to see the spectacular blues and whites of its glaciers, even what looked to me like a waterfall from the meltwater runoff. It was one of those few moments that was literally breathtaking—I sort of hiccup/gasped audibly—and I looked back down the cabin to see if everyone was as rapt as I was.

Nope. Everyone was watching movies or TV on the back-seat monitors, or their iPads, or fast asleep."

If you don't have any sense of wonderment, you're a boring person. Amazes me so few people care what the world looks like.