Hokkaido on a budget, tours and other questions

[skiinggirl]

Considering doing a trip to Hokkaido in January, as it’s been my list for quite some time.
I’d like to avoid the Niseko area and head to smaller, less crowded places.
I am used to ski travel individually all over the Alps and Rockies, but not sure if it’s feasible doing it on my own, figuring out the local rules, meeting people to ski with, etc. And none of my ski buddies can make it.
So reluctantly considering joining an organized tour. Can anybody recommend a good affordable operator, that doesn’t just to Niseko and surroundings, but also goes a little bit off the beaten track? I have read about Whiteroom tours and a few others. Maybe there are some guides anybody knows? Operators without a fixed itinerary that just go with the snow and conditions are preferred.
It would also be good to have groups catered to expert skiers, as I want to avoid having to wait around and really make the most of it. Happy to go skitouring also and get away from lifts.
If an organized group doesn’t work out I am considering just heading to Furano and Kiroro and go from there. How busy are these places nowadays? Are they becoming 2nd Nisekos or still relatively quiet? Is it easy to meet others to ski with there for going out of the gates and backcountry?
With regards to booking accommodation, everything seems superexpensive, especially as an individual. Considering that I am usually late and spontaneous in my bookings, would I find anything affordable at all at short notice?
Thx for your tips.

[LeoK]

Many more experienced mags will help you out (I think someone here runs tours around Hokkaido, too) but here are my 2 cents:

Furano was quite crowded when we were there but nothing like Niskeo. Kiroro was a bit crowded but almost nobody skinning > easy to reach untracked japow. But Kiroro is no village / town at all. There is jsut one hotel and this is an expensive one. Did you consider renting a van? You can sleep on the parking lot there.

I think it is not too hard to meet others skiers but the japanese are often not very fluent in english. But I'd say the backcountry skiers are an international crowd anyways.

[Any]

Ive never used them, but i've been hearing a lot of good things about Whiteroom. Some of their product descriptions seem to indicate they have a bit of flexibility about where to take you each day also.
Tho i'm not sure how joining a group of randoms will work if the destination isn't selected yet. Wouldn't it only work if you were all based somewhere central to be picked up at the same time (eg, niseko/kutchan). Perhaps you could contact them and see tho.

I too am always afraid of joining tour groups. I could waste my day waiting around, endlessly stopping for coffee, or ruin a potentially epic day at the wrong mountain. Have heard many "horror" stories of people grossly overestimating their ability, or worse, dragging 1 snowboarder into a group of 6 skiiers.
This is the reason why I don't want to do any any sort guiding job. I think the only way a guiding company could provide an experts only package to the masses would to be to do it how ive seen some heli ski operations do it, you have to trip with them multiple times and be graded high enough to be permitted on the more difficult packages.
However having said that; I gave Par's Powder Paradise a go last season and had a good time. Its like a cheaper cat ski company, because they use snowmobiles with tow ropes instead. It was a mixed group of randoms 1's 2's and 3's, about 11 total. There were snowboarders too, but i forget, because we never had to wait for them. While the group wasn't super charging, none were beginners in pow either, and i didn't feel like i was held up or restricted. Everyone was so polite about who goes first and I got the distinct feeling everyone was trying to not hold anyone else back, I purposefully took less risks jumping off stuff/etc. I was happy that we unanimously voted to move to the more difficult terrain too.

It is my observation that tour and cat companies are booked out weeks in advance, but they might cancel or postpone based on poor conditions. I don't think you'll be able to book on the spur of the moment type deal, or if you could, 1000 other people might be trying to do the same thing anyway.

You sound quite accomplished and skilled enough that I might suggest you might be able to do a lot of the stuff yourself to keep the budget down. Ive read other people on this and other forums getting vans/etc. Your first time in Japan could be quite daunting, but I don't think the culture or language barrier should be stop you.
But after thinking about it a little bit, it's not so clear to me if its worth going diy just to save a few $.
There's a lot to be said for local knowledge. Knowing you can ski over that knoll, around that corner, follow that river, etc, is extremely valuable. For most, time is the most valuable resource, and youve just spent so much time and money to get there in the first place. Wasting your days skiing somewhere and not hitting that epic spot because you didn't know it was there kind of sucks.

Kiroro is so close to Otaru and Sapporo that on weekends & public holidays (of which there are MANY) the main lifts can be busier than peak times in Niseko. But on weekdays its a nice quiet resort.
I find it difficult to justify backcountry touring there, because even if you dont use a lift they make you buy a lift ticket, $50! fucking ripoff. Or you could buy a day ticket and get 20x as many runs with almost as good pow (if you know where to go).
In fact, for this reason I often choose slackcountry instead of backcountry days elsewhere too.

On weekends you can expect to see a high percentage of Japanese backcountry touring, more than 50% i reckon. But yes on weekdays it is mostly westerners.
I've not really had an issue with Language. Most Japanese speak so much more English than they let on. But in the end it doesn't matter, everyone has the same interests and "woohoo" still means the same thing.
I'd prepare you in advance for the small chance of rejection if you ask to join someone elses group tho. There's legitimate downsides in taking the additional responsibility to wait for, trust, and have to rescue someone that you didn't know 5 minutes ago. Who knows what sort of crazy people are out there, especially if they wear a green jacket, that guy is weird!

Don't forget there are many other small resorts other than Kiroro that are worth at least one day of slackcountry too.

Regarding accom, suggest trying to contact them directly and/or use japanese booking sites. Things like Airbnb are also legal now, and gaining popularity, so perhaps prices have fallen a bit on them too.
Perhaps try more backpacker style accom. There's even a capsule hotel at Moiwa.

ps: it snowed on yotei again today!

[adrenalated]

A good friend of mine recently started a logistics company, Zonal Flow
http://zonalflow.com/home
He specializes in basically exactly what you're looking for. Backcountry skiing, away from lifts, off the beaten path. He takes care of all your logistics/lodging/etc. He's currently booked most of January but who knows, maybe there will be one spot drop out. Definitely worth reaching out to.

[viglio]

A good friend of mine recently started a logistics company, Zonal Flow
http://zonalflow.com/home
He specializes in basically exactly what you're looking for. Backcountry skiing, away from lifts, off the beaten path. He takes care of all your logistics/lodging/etc. He's currently booked most of January but who knows, maybe there will be one spot drop out. Definitely worth reaching out to.

+1 for Chez, stellar dude and probably knows more about the mountains out there than anyone

[nortonwhis]

Japan is tough place to ski by yourself. I decided against a solo trip as my first experience in Japan we hardly met anyone who was anywhere near our level of backcountry skillset. Maybe you will get lucky, but personally I would wait until you can go with your regular crew, unless you are planning on joining a group (as you have mentioned there are inherent issues with this too...)

[dongy]

if you end up coming out, send me a pm if you want to tour. I'll be all around touring Hokkaido backcountry and resorts for 3 months and always looking for touring partners.

[XXX-er]

. this is an expensive one. Did you consider renting a van? You can sleep on the parking lot there.

I think it is not too hard to meet others skiers but the japanese are often not very fluent in english. But I'd say the backcountry skiers are an international crowd anyways.

2 good points here^^

IME nobody speaks engrish so if you need to find accommodation that could be problematic, it is better if you got it all rented on air BnB before you go or i supose you could do it as you go but cheap accommodation could be sold out if you wait

another option IS local couple who are pretty good at the dirtbagging rented a Honda fit and slept in it for 2 weeks , so they had good transportation anywhere and always somewhere to sleep. Its not like dirtbagging in america cuz there are Onsens everywhere for you to bathe and stay clean, 7-11 are everywhere are not like America they have pretty good sushi/beer and an international banking machine to take out cash I think you could easily do the entire trip speaking no japanese sleeping in a small car

I have a cd called CARDANCHI 9 does 9 drives around Hokkaido sleeping in the back of a car, it was gifted to us by Tomoki Takaku one of the riders

[LeoK]

CARDANCHI

^^check it out to see if you are into cardanchi - this was what we were after in Japan.

[hafjell]

A good friend of mine recently started a logistics company, Zonal Flow
http://zonalflow.com/home
He specializes in basically exactly what you're looking for. Backcountry skiing, away from lifts, off the beaten path. He takes care of all your logistics/lodging/etc. He's currently booked most of January but who knows, maybe there will be one spot drop out. Definitely worth reaching out to.

What a great resource.

[Idris]

From my experience a base model K car will more than work for transport (way cheaper than anything else) assuming you know how to drive in snow, if the roads are open you will get there. For accommodation there are loads of cheap Japanese places in the non ski towns (that are not far by car). If you are intimidated by trying to survive by google translate, booking.comet all will find many as will google maps. Iwanai is near to both Niseko and Kiroro and not too far from Rusitsu and cheap as chips.

Why Hokkido, why not just get your flights to Japan and let the weather decide if it's mainland (Japanses Alps) or Hokkido

There is loads of skiing on the mainland, Hakkuba area? Miyoko? Nozowa/Shiga? Yuzawa (also known as snow country).

If I am back on the Cat this winter (still don't know) I could always use a ski partner on days off, might even get you some days cat skiing in return for holding a radio and skiing last in the group
If I'm not back on the Cat I will be looking for a ski partner for the first half of Jan?

[Huskier]

Japan is tough place to ski by yourself....we hardly met anyone who was anywhere near our level of backcountry skillset)

1. No, it's really f*cking not
2. Orly

So, Japan is A) super safe, and B) super easy to get around without speaking a word of the language. There are a number of resorts and "Resorts" outside of Niseko worth visiting. Half are a short bus-ride -from- Niseko. The other half take a little more work to get to. People have touched on the obvious Kirroro/Rusutsu/etc. Do this: start in Niseko (Yeah, I know, but you don't have to ski there, it just makes an easy home base to hit the other resorts). Bus leaves from Niseko every morning to the outlying resorts, back the same day (Or not, your choice). Once you've had your fill, head back to Sapporo, hop the train/Bus combo for Asahidake. Tucked away slack country gem with a rad onsen set up specifically to accomodate skiers. Yes, there totally will be people most places looking for partners to get after it with. Yes, you should exercise caution when deciding to go shred with a stranger. If you have time, head to kurodake. Also rad. Head to the Southeast end of the island to see the snow monkeys, and before you fly out, hit a day at Sapporo Teine. It's pretty dinky, but you can literally ride the Sapporo subway to get there. You want surreal? Try sardine-ing into a train full of super serious Japanese businessmen at rush hour whilst decked out in ski gear. Watch as no one so much as bats an eyelash at the crazy Gaijin.

Tour outfits: black diamond lodge is the go-to. Is spendy, but the guys who spent a guided Backcountry day with them said it was totally worth it. Do keep in mind they're pretty busy and book up in advance.

Oh, final thought: Japan is expensive AF. Like good luck finding a hostel bunk for under $35-40 a night in high season. Food, not as bad as you'd think. Lift tickets, not US prices but not dirt cheap either. I was only there for 2 weeks, staying in the cheapest hostels, eating the cheapest food, not going out I still dropped close to $1.5-2k.

[TahoeJ]

Do this: start in Niseko (Yeah, I know, but you don't have to ski there, it just makes an easy home base to hit the other resorts). Bus leaves from Niseko every morning to the outlying resorts, back the same day (Or not, your choice).

Thanks for this tid-bit - it's kind of what my crew was thinking as well, but everyone always seems to be bagging on Niseko so I'm hesitant. I figured we could go out from there and then come back for the nightlife in the evenings.

[nortonwhis]

1. No, it's really f*cking not
2. Orly

Oh, final thought: Japan is expensive AF. Like good luck finding a hostel bunk for under $35-40 a night in high season. Food, not as bad as you'd think. Lift tickets, not US prices but not dirt cheap either. I was only there for 2 weeks, staying in the cheapest hostels, eating the cheapest food, not going out I still dropped close to $1.5-2k.

Sorry I meant, Japan is a difficult place to find people to ski backcountry with whilst staying in places that arent expensive. Its pretty simple to ski Niseko solo, but trying to post up at the Makkari TH for Yotei or at a Shiribetsu TH solo and you will have a hard time finding people who will let you join. Maybe if you stay at a big lodge in Niseko you might meet some good partners but then comes the cost.
I gotta agree with you on price as well. Its cheap lift tickets but everything else ends up costing quite a bit, especially travelling solo (renting a car etc), which was why i went with the save it for when your friends can come.

[Tamburello Rouge]

I was in Japan last year for a nice family vacation. Didn't get in any skiing, however. That will be for another trip.

While traveling in Japan your smart phone is invaluable, so make sure you use it. Google Maps and Google Translate went a long way to helping us get around and communicate. They work very well. If your phone won't work on local networks you will want to rent a mobile wi-fi device once you land. They are cheap and will allow you to have data wherever you go.

As said above, Japan is very safe and the people are friendly and usually helpful. It is also very easy to get around as the train system is fantastic. Have fun!

[BFD]

I have made 3 trips to Hokkaido never rented a car. In my opinion waste of money. local transportation works.
I am always amazed at the Asahidake recommendation. Unless you ski the peak the place is not worth the time. Google Earth is your friend.
Japan is very easy guides are not necessary. Everybody is a guide in Japan now.
IMHO the best advice of this thread is http://zonalflow.com/home
We got advice from him on our first trip. He understands skiing Japan and I have used his model on my other trips. I have no idea why he wants to guide but he has a long relationship with Japan.
My other advice would be listen to anything MikePow says. He knows the area well and all the advice I have seen him give here has been right on.
If you decide to go by yourself my advice would be pick maybe 3 places to visit. Find a ryokan in each area. Book the nicest place you can afford. Take local transportation. Put the money you save by not renting a car towards your lodging.

[pman]

I took the leap of faith and signed up for a central Hokkaido tour with whiteroom Jan 26-Feb5th next year. I have never been with them so I can't say if they are good or bad personally they they have a lot of very good reviews. I completely understand the angst with random groups and people overestimating their skills as I have been skunked on some cat ski trip with "Experts" who can barely walk in ski boots let alone ride powder. I was lucky enough to pull 6 people together though which is the full group size while out. Looks like a pretty sweet lift accessed backcountry tour that is pretty flexible and just follows the storms. It is around $2700 USD for 10 days including a guide the full trip and everything else but lunch and dinner so not cheap but not bad either. Would be great to have another like minded person on the trip if interested.

https://www.whiteroomtours.com/guide...tral-hokkaido/

[MakersTeleMark]

A good friend of mine recently started a logistics company, Zonal Flow
http://zonalflow.com/home
He specializes in basically exactly what you're looking for. Backcountry skiing, away from lifts, off the beaten path. He takes care of all your logistics/lodging/etc. He's currently booked most of January but who knows, maybe there will be one spot drop out. Definitely worth reaching out to.

Holy shit, I didn't know that.

Good for him.

[phatty]

I've skied Hokkaido by myself twice and had no issues. I ended up finding Americans/Aussies at every resort (including a TGR film crew at Kiroro) that I ended up skiing with. Had a blast and would not hesitate to go alone again. Try to figure out how to get back this year.

[Steve Lavigne]

I had a Black Diamond power tour booked in 2016, but had three days solo prior to that to ski by myself. I ended up renting a car on the spot and found It was easy to get around. As an American, I needed an international driver's license to rent a car. My last minute stays in Asahidake and Sapporo were cheap. Walked in to Asahidake for like $40 US, but not so nice. Super nice hotel in Sapporo, booked 30 minutes before showing up, for like $70 US. Easy to function without language knowledge, but having cel data with Google Translate and Google Maps was totally worth it. Lodging prices at Niseko looked to be absurd, so I ignored it.

Even ran into subtleplague and his crew while skinning up upper Teine when the upper mountain lifts were closed due to wind. Easy to find nice places to ski in Kiroro and Furano by following tracks.

[gaijin]

Lots of good advice in here.

My only addition would be to stop thinking that your trip to Japan is a one-off, and therefore needs to be stellar your first time here.

These islands are insane in winter. Things can get super fucking dangerous during blizzard season for people who want to go "tour."

I would recommend just coming. Choose a resort/region. Book. Come. Meet people. Consider your first trip recon for your lifestyle changes that will/could inevitably occur.

To the whole world-- Please stop thinking you can show up in Japan and score the trip of a lifetime because you researched it online first. Just come. Meet us.

[hafjell]

Lots of good advice in here.

My only addition would be to stop thinking that your trip to Japan is a one-off, and therefore needs to be stellar your first time here.

These islands are insane in winter. Things can get super fucking dangerous during blizzard season for people who want to go "tour."

I would recommend just coming. Choose a resort/region. Book. Come. Meet people. Consider your first trip recon for your lifestyle changes that will/could inevitably occur.

To the whole world-- Please stop thinking you can show up in Japan and score the trip of a lifetime because you researched it online first. Just come. Meet us.

Awesome. Impossible to improve on.

[skiinggirl]

Hey, thanks for all your tips, that's a lot of good advice to take on. I have only been on organized groups twice, once in La Grave, where they let me change to a better group and the 2nd time they let me leave the group, as I know the owners of skiers lodge, 2nd time on a days heli skiing in Canada (which luckily was paid for by my old work as a birthday gift, I would have cried if it was with my own money) and I had to wait around the whole time as people got tired skiing powder and kept falling over, whereas for me it's quite easy to just ski down 1000 metres of powder in one go and fast and keep going all day, so I have my trepidations about the level of skiers in such groups. Definitely right about not expecting the trip of a lifetime and going with an open mind. I would also go to Japan to experience a bit of a different culture, as have so far just skied the Alps, US and Canada. I don't even know if I will make it this season, it all depends if I quit my job to ski solid a 5th season in a row or don't. If I didn't quit, going to Japan as a vacation would somewhat be my reward for not quitting my job haha. I'll definitely contact Zonal Flow. So for skiing in Kiroro and surrounding places, I would just stay in Sapporo and get public transport? Any accommodation recommendations for Furano, Sapporo? I would most likely just use transport and not hire a car or sleep in a van.

[plugboots]

skiingirl, you sound like my friend Monika. So you've "just" skied the Alps, Canada, and the US?

[skiinggirl]

Yeah, it`s me... yep, "just" there, I figured it may be time to expand my horizon..... you been to Japan?