Whistler conditions 18-19

[scott_donald]

You still can, you just have to take your skis off now. I realize it's not quite the same, but it is warmer! The other plus is that Catskinner is now a chair you actually might want to use.

so is there mid station stops then? that is not clear on the trail map.

[paulster2626]

so is there mid station stops then? that is not clear on the trail map.

It's on the website.

Our in-house planners worked with our contractor, Eco-sign, to explore all possible routes, but in the end, they could not find a safe fit for both lines. This said, their work left us confident the new gondola mid-station will still serve those skiers and riders doing mid-mountain laps well, and the new Catskinner chair will naturally shift traffic to an under-used area of the mountain, further reducing pressure on the mid-station.

[scott_donald]

It's on the website.

sweet, thanks.

[PeteDee]

Looks like the talk of less crowds in December wasn't just anecdotal.
https://biv.com/article/2019/01/slug...-trim-guidance

[gramboh]

Looks like the talk of less crowds in December wasn't just anecdotal.
https://biv.com/article/2019/01/slug...-trim-guidance

Part of that has to be attributed to better snow conditions in competing resorts in North America (and other epic resorts) versus last winter.

Could be that the epic pass/insane day rate and removal of 3 day edge card strategy is backfiring for WB in terms of reduced day traffic. Does WB/Vail own any of the hotels in the village?

[raypruit]

Anecdotal, but a bunch of people I know opted for the epic pass this year instead of an edge card. I'd do it if I didn't have a kid. So from what I can tell, if vail's plan is to push people from edge card to pass it's working

[The AD]

I bought a five day Edge Card this year, but now wish I'd at least gone for the ten day. I've got a trip to Colorado next week and I'll be able to use two of my days at Vail resorts there, but will get raped for my third day when I have to pay the window rate.

[paulster2626]

I bought a five day Edge Card this year, but now wish I'd at least gone for the ten day. I've got a trip to Colorado next week and I'll be able to use two of my days at Vail resorts there, but will get raped for my third day when I have to pay the window rate.

Buy the 3rd day now (or a week in advance) and you'll save tons. Don't fall for their "15% off day rate for edge card" bullshit or whatever it is - I bet just buying the single ticket now is the cheapest option.

[t.odd]

when there were one day edge cards and 'cheaper' day tickets, the resort was frequently over capacity, and everyone whinged and moaned about how WB was 'too busy' and too much standing around in lines...they weren't wrong. Now we have no one day edge cards and higher priced day tickets and way less really crazy busy days and people whine about it not being busy enough? Town's full, less skiers, less destination skiers off piste, way fewer over capacity days...as a season pass holder and resident, the past two years have been great. Yeah Vail ops still has it's issues, buuuuuut...I'm not too upset at this point as a regular skier.

[paulster2626]

when there were one day edge cards and 'cheaper' day tickets, the resort was frequently over capacity, and everyone whinged and moaned about how WB was 'too busy' and too much standing around in lines...they weren't wrong. Now we have no one day edge cards and higher priced day tickets and way less really crazy busy days and people whine about it not being busy enough? Town's full, less skiers, less destination skiers off piste, way fewer over capacity days...as a season pass holder and resident, the past two years have been great. Yeah Vail ops still has it's issues, buuuuuut...I'm not too upset at this point as a regular skier.

The only people who might even be considered whining about the lack of skiers are the Vail shareholders. Personally, the thought of shorter lift lines at WB has me fully erect (TMI?).

[LeeLau]

Yup. I've had more relatively uncrowded inbounds days already this season than the last few combined

[knowsam]

Seems from reading the article that the lack of skiers was primarily Dec 1-21, which IIRC was also when they were getting pummeled in the alpine but couldn't get anything open. What does an early season ticket cost at WB? Tough to convince the day visitors to come from Vancouver and spend a ton (I’m guessing) for a ticket or to use up edge card days, when half the mountain is closed or it’s early season conditions.

I agree with t.odd that I’ve found the skiing at WB less crowded since Vail bought it and I’ve enjoyed that aspect, but if Vail was planning on Vancouver traffic outside of the holiday season to round out the cash flow, that might be an issue for them. Vancouver just doesn’t have the salaries to support $200/pp days on the hill on a regular basis – the best days will still be packed, but anything less and they mountain is going to have some space I suspect. Course, I’ve been wrong before…

[PeteDee]

I do agree that the weakness must be in day or "casual skier" traffic from Vancouver and Seattle metros. People traveling from afar, whether Epic or otherwise, are going to show up regardless of snow conditions. I'm not sure what percentage of folks who do a true "chase" ski vacation is and travel last minute based on recent snowfall, but don't think it's a high percentage.

I don't believe this is unique to Whistler in re: day prices getting ridiculous and edging out casual or conditions-dependent traffic. I'm guessing Epic/Ikon pass prices will go up 10-20% in the next 3-5 years and maybe (maybe?) day tickets will equalize a bit as Vail and Alterra continue to grow and build "value" into the pass price. The sport will have long term issues regardless of climate if the bottom 50% of the addressable market can't participate and those people aren't going to drop 1K+ on skiing before November.

In the meantime, enjoy those less crowded slopes!

[nickel]

It's a worrying trend in that short term, you'll sell more season's passes but long term (like quite long term) you're shrinking your demographic because new people start with a day here and there. You don't buy a season pass to see if you like the sport. At ~200pp/day, you can easily do something exciting and fun that doesn't have a learning curve that spans years/decades/life. But yeah, I also enjoy smaller lift linez.

[t.odd]

It's a worrying trend in that short term, you'll sell more season's passes but long term (like quite long term) you're shrinking your demographic because new people start with a day here and there. You don't buy a season pass to see if you like the sport. At ~200pp/day, you can easily do something exciting and fun that doesn't have a learning curve that spans years/decades/life. But yeah, I also enjoy smaller lift linez.

I don't disagree with that, long term it's probably a losing strategy for sure

[The AD]

Buy the 3rd day now (or a week in advance) and you'll save tons. Don't fall for their "15% off day rate for edge card" bullshit or whatever it is - I bet just buying the single ticket now is the cheapest option.

That's a good idea if I knew now where we're going to ski that third day.

[paulster2626]

That's a good idea if I knew now where we're going to ski that third day.

Just buy 3 tickets for the same day at different resorts then. That way you're sure to get the best possible rate wherever you end up!

<urban man pointing at head.jpg>

[The AD]

Just buy 3 tickets for the same day at different resorts then. That way you're sure to get the best possible rate wherever you end up!

<urban man pointing at head.jpg>

Sounds like a great plan! Pretty sure my friend bought a four day Epic pass, so he's going to want to ski at a Vail resort. Probably the safest course is to buy a Vail one-day which can be used at Vail, Beaver Creek, Breck or Keystone.

[gramboh]

It's a worrying trend in that short term, you'll sell more season's passes but long term (like quite long term) you're shrinking your demographic because new people start with a day here and there. You don't buy a season pass to see if you like the sport. At ~200pp/day, you can easily do something exciting and fun that doesn't have a learning curve that spans years/decades/life. But yeah, I also enjoy smaller lift linez.

This. Smaller lines have been awesome.

Most of my friends who grew up doing a handful of days a winter at Sunshine/Louise/Fernie have all stopped skiing because WB is too expensive for them, these are working professionals too. Hard to imagine casual families giving it a shot, although the north shore mountains are kinda affordable still and you see tons of learners there compared to WB. My kids will ski Whistler because I’m a fanatic.

I normally have a season pass but bought a 5 day edge cuz we have a 5 month old at home. I’ve managed 4 days already through some luck when wife and kid were out of town at in-laws during snowpocalypse 1.0 in December. Should’ve bought a 10 day but oh well.

[paulster2626]

There's also the point of view of the remote fly-in traveler like myself. WB has always been a destination resort as far as I know, and I'm going to assume their money has come from resort-oriented activities such as village retail space, on-mountain dining, 6-day lift ticket sales, hotel-driven revenue, and kids programs.

I think the population of the people who come from far away, booking their trip waaay in advance and the money that WB can suck out of them vastly outweighs the lot of you yahoos who skootch up the Sea 2 Sky on powder days, park at Creekside, eat your PB&J sandwiches on the chairlifts and then crush a PBR before driving back home at 5pm.

Lately the past few years the conversation with my fellow flatlanders has been that Whistler is just too fucking crowded to be worth it anymore. A lot of people think about going elsewhere because standing in a 45 minute gondola lineup while getting rained on kind of sucks. Hell, my old man won't even consider a trip to Whistler anymore - but he is old and spoiled.

Myself, I have family out there so I'll always be gracing you with my presence until 2036 when mrs. paulster and I retire there. But there is an anecdotally large contingent of non-bro-brahs who think Whistler's had it's run and it's just no longer on their radar. Maybe they're actually trying to become less of a locally popular place and just go back to being the place where everyone and their uncle automatically puts on the list of potential ski trip destinations. Or, maybe not and I'm just thinking too much. I need to go skiing...

[eldereldo]

I don’t know the reason, but given they were setting records last year, it is doubtful it has anything to do with price, more likely the slower start to the season simply put off a lot of people who have booked stays. Guess the proof will be whether it stays quieter when the Feb/March holidays start rolling in.

[The AD]

So you're saying "No one goes to Whistler anymore, it's too crowded."

[kevin267]

It's been great tbh I've been up like 15 days barely waited in any lines so far

[knowsam]

I think we all agree that the sorter lift lines are great (and probably needed) – living in Vancouver, I was giving some real thought to other options more than once after sitting in a lift line for 45 mins. If the target market is, as Paulster says, more wealthy, fly in guests for longer stays, in my view that’s probably good for us. The village sees tons of money, staff do well, the lift lines are smaller and snow on anything harder than a blue lasts a bit longer. Plus, and this is huge, outside of the holiday seasons, the mountain will be empty.

The issue is that they released a profit warning based on the lower number of skiers during a time that is usually only skied by day trippers – and if they want to target fly in guest, they need to not also be relying on day trippers. Seems like a miss somewhere in the math is all.

Total aside, but going way back, I don’t remember Whistler being a place kids really learned when I was a kid. Yes, there were definitely families with places that went every weekend and the Nancy Green kids, but with the one lane highway, shitty roads etc., day trippers just weren’t that common. Families in Vancouver learned at Cypress, Grouse and Seymour (some even went to Baker). Whistler was usually skied by weekend stays and weeklong vacations (even for skier from Vancouver). Maybe my memory is wrong and it’s just my impression, but I feel like family day trips to whistler have been a more recent (say since the 2000’s) phenomena there.

[Gcooker]

I think we all agree that the sorter lift lines are great (and probably needed) – living in Vancouver, I was giving some real thought to other options more than once after sitting in a lift line for 45 mins. If the target market is, as Paulster says, more wealthy, fly in guests for longer stays, in my view that’s probably good for us. The village sees tons of money, staff do well, the lift lines are smaller and snow on anything harder than a blue lasts a bit longer. Plus, and this is huge, outside of the holiday seasons, the mountain will be empty.

The issue is that they released a profit warning based on the lower number of skiers during a time that is usually only skied by day trippers – and if they want to target fly in guest, they need to not also be relying on day trippers. Seems like a miss somewhere in the math is all.

Total aside, but going way back, I don’t remember Whistler being a place kids really learned when I was a kid. Yes, there were definitely families with places that went every weekend and the Nancy Green kids, but with the one lane highway, shitty roads etc., day trippers just weren’t that common. Families in Vancouver learned at Cypress, Grouse and Seymour (some even went to Baker). Whistler was usually skied by weekend stays and weeklong vacations (even for skier from Vancouver). Maybe my memory is wrong and it’s just my impression, but I feel like family day trips to whistler have been a more recent (say since the 2000’s) phenomena there.

Yup, myself and two kids at Seymour this year was under 400$ for the season... hard to beat that when I couldn't take them to Whistler for 1 day for the same price.