Southern Interior BC 2018-19

**meggers** · 02-06-2019, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by el hefe

You parked in their staging area? Up Skyline??? With a sled????

No sled, just touring. We went to the staging area and some greasy cat driver said he was fine if we parked there if we dug out our own spot, which we did. We had never been there, so we didn't realize you aren't usually able to go there. No one was upset about the parking, just the actual skiing.

Glad to hear we weren't actually in the wrong though. Thanks teamdirt for the clarification.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

**teamdirt** · 02-06-2019, 11:13 AM

Some of these closures are only under section 66- land use act. Looks like different problems different laws apply.

Here’s an example of disturbance and resolution:

https://selkirksnowcatskiing.com/wp-...ibitionNo9.pdf

https://selkirksnowcatskiing.com/mea...mobiling-info/

**el hefe** · 02-06-2019, 11:28 AM

I wouldn't recommend parking in their lot when they are in operation. It's not illegal but I could see why they would be pissed. Bad optics for the guests I would think.

**zion zig zag** · 02-06-2019, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

I'm going on a hut trip at Valhalla Mountain Touring first week in April.

Just to piggyback off of you; I'll be at Ice Creek in the Valhalla's 1st week of March. Anyone ever been to that area or have anything to say about it? Terrain looks good on Google Earth.

As far as green, the hut caretaker at Carlyle was happy to provide to guests a couple of years ago, so I think your assessment of the locals is on point.

**meggers** · 02-06-2019, 11:41 AM

I hear ya on that, and definitely won't in the future. But like I said, no one was upset about parking.

I really am trying to keep the peace. It's one thing to just to up there and do whatever we wanted, but we sought permission at every stage, and treaded lightly. Overall, our interactions were much more positive than others I've heard of touring in cat operations.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

**el hefe** · 02-06-2019, 12:08 PM

They get raped by sledders sometimes. Feel for them. Also there have been groups going in using their roads to lap with sleds, that is not cool.

**eldereldo** · 02-06-2019, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

My 'Merican atlas don't go North of the 49th but I love me some Tim Hortons and a bit of Corb Lund. I hope that will buy me some cred in the land of red, white and beer.

I'm going on a hut trip at Valhalla Mountain Touring first week in April. I'm gonna just ask my stupid questions here.

Does winter occasionally hang around that long or is it most likely to be full on spring?

We leave out of Hills so I'm thinking a hotel in Nelson the night before is the way to go? Any recommendations mid grade of lower? This trip is already the most expensive trip ever. The old hotel in the middle of town?

How does the green scene work these days? It is legal but you gots no pot supermarkets? Last time I was through the Koots the locals just about gave it to you.

I’ve been to VMT a bunch of times, although never that late in the year. We usually stay in Nakusp the night before, but if you are coming from the US you are probably better of in Nelson. Fair warning, if you are on a guided trip they will tell you that smoking pot during the day is verboten. The lodge is non smoking so if you want to smoke in the evening outside you go. BC fucked up the transaction from medical to legalized marijuana so shops are still thin on the ground.

**dufferdan** · 02-06-2019, 03:02 PM

Looking at joining my brother and some of his buddies in Rossland for a 3 day ski weekend near end of Feb. Might need a hotel room for four nights. Not fleabag, but not super high end. Refs?

May turn it into a bit of a tour. Driving from Cowtown, haven’t skied Fernie in several years, and have some folks I can bunk in with. Another friend in Nelson, so likely throw in a Whitewater day. Also have a bud with a Reno’s cabin at the base of Castle, so could piece together a nice 7 or 8 day tour.

But no couch to flop on in Rossland. Hotel recs?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**Gcooker** · 02-06-2019, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by dufferdan

Looking at joining my brother and some of his buddies in Rossland for a 3 day ski weekend near end of Feb. Might need a hotel room for four nights. Not fleabag, but not super high end. Refs?

May turn it into a bit of a tour. Driving from Cowtown, haven’t skied Fernie in several years, and have some folks I can bunk in with. Another friend in Nelson, so likely throw in a Whitewater day. Also have a bud with a Reno’s cabin at the base of Castle, so could piece together a nice 7 or 8 day tour.

But no couch to flop on in Rossland. Hotel recs?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Rossland Motel has a hot tub which wasn't the cleanest last time I was there... Rossland Inn is typically where I stay when in town. Prestige is pricey. I stay at the BW Terra Nova in Trail when I'm there for work. 10 minutes down the valley with a clean indoor hot tub and the pub sometimes has hot bar maids.

**snoboy** · 02-08-2019, 06:43 PM

There is also a new hostel at the base of the hill that looks pretty nice.

**dufferdan** · 02-09-2019, 06:58 PM

Thanks guys.Looks like I’ll be able to flop on a couch with brother’s buddy that lives in town. Cost me 6 bottles of wine....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**cmcrawfo** · 02-10-2019, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by teamdirt

Meggers- Crown land is open to everyone to access and enjoy not just the elite, privileged an entitled. Just because they have the permits to operate a cat ski operation on that land does not mean they can prevent you from using it for your own personal use, unless they have a special closure, which K3 does not.

The operation should be proactive and come up with ways to mitigate the disturbance just like all other operations in BC. There are a lot of ways to mitigate the disturbance. Take it from other operations- offer a zone for sledders/ski tourers to go if they do come up, Someplace outside of their tenure or something they don't use very often. Back it up with signage, plow a bigger parking area, post the signage and appreciate the locals that come up and respect their requests to not use there terrain.
The locals will be the ones that share the good vibe to others that come up and an unwritten code of respect towards the operation will follow suit. Lets face it its not outsiders coming up to these hidden zones its locals.

This topic has been an ongoing problem with operations for the last decade however operations are starting to get the point they don't own the land and should'nt be bullying public users.

The only Cat ski operation in BC that owns the land is Island Lake Lodge. Other then that there is only a handful of government closures to exclusive use on crown land during ski operations. (Meadow Lake- locals tried to put the operation out of business by constantly destroying the terrain so government had to step in, Mike Wiegle)

Interesting and topical discussion.

I have actually been working to try and get a non-profit off the ground with the intent to catalog crown land user conflicts and advocate for the public to preserve crown land usage rights...

The "right" to access crown land isn't as entrenched in law and legislation as one would think (or hope). There are avenues that could potentially allow the tenure user to apply for special closures, and their rationale for the request can be as simple as " to preserve their guest experience". This is problematic because recreational land use permits are being granted on top of each other. In that, one geographical are could have several recreational land use permits applied to it, and this can increase the tenure holders ability to muscle out the public.

I agree that the operators need to take a proactive approach to this type of user conflict, as an example...if an operator plowed out parking for other users it would potentially be easier for them to direct them away for the areas they are using more intensely for their guest experience that day...

As there isn't a formal complaint process and establishing the formal grounds of the complaint generally requires a copy of their approved land use permit, its difficult for the public to advocate for them selves.

as populations grow, and resource development continues (more roads) and off road vehicles get more capable, the conflicts between business and recreational crown land users is going to grow.

and on that note ......if anyone happens to have copies of recreational land use permits for the cat and heli ops in the interior, it would save me a bunch of time and money with freedom of information requests.

**BCMtnHound** · 02-10-2019, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by cmcrawfo

Interesting and topical discussion.

I have actually been working to try and get a non-profit off the ground with the intent to catalog crown land user conflicts and advocate for the public to preserve crown land usage rights...

The "right" to access crown land isn't as entrenched in law and legislation as one would think (or hope). There are avenues that could potentially allow the tenure user to apply for special closures, and their rationale for the request can be as simple as " to preserve their guest experience". This is problematic because recreational land use permits are being granted on top of each other. In that, one geographical are could have several recreational land use permits applied to it, and this can increase the tenure holders ability to muscle out the public.

I agree that the operators need to take a proactive approach to this type of user conflict, as an example...if an operator plowed out parking for other users it would potentially be easier for them to direct them away for the areas they are using more intensely for their guest experience that day...

As there isn't a formal complaint process and establishing the formal grounds of the complaint generally requires a copy of their approved land use permit, its difficult for the public to advocate for them selves.

as populations grow, and resource development continues (more roads) and off road vehicles get more capable, the conflicts between business and recreational crown land users is going to grow.

and on that note ......if anyone happens to have copies of recreational land use permits for the cat and heli ops in the interior, it would save me a bunch of time and money with freedom of information requests.

Have you tried searching the public ‘external’ folders on the forestry ftp site? https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/ftp/
Or contact the recreation officer for the rec district you are interested in, they should be able to provide boilerplate documents to help guide your efforts.

**wicked_sick** · 02-10-2019, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by snoboy

There is also a new hostel at the base of the hill that looks pretty nice.

I stayed there a couple weeks ago. I can confirm that it's nice. Way nicer and better set up than the hostel downtown.

Cmcrawfo, I have an immediate family member who is a crown land and resource specialist with the Ministry of forests land and natural resources. They're taking a tour of a new heli op this week, but usually deal with other types of tenure holders.

They work in a different district, but if there are any specific questions or data you are after, I could try to facilitate that.

**kootenayskier** · 02-10-2019, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by cmcrawfo

Interesting and topical discussion.

I have actually been working to try and get a non-profit off the ground with the intent to catalog crown land user conflicts and advocate for the public to preserve crown land usage rights...

The "right" to access crown land isn't as entrenched in law and legislation as one would think (or hope). There are avenues that could potentially allow the tenure user to apply for special closures, and their rationale for the request can be as simple as " to preserve their guest experience". This is problematic because recreational land use permits are being granted on top of each other. In that, one geographical are could have several recreational land use permits applied to it, and this can increase the tenure holders ability to muscle out the public.

I agree that the operators need to take a proactive approach to this type of user conflict, as an example...if an operator plowed out parking for other users it would potentially be easier for them to direct them away for the areas they are using more intensely for their guest experience that day...

As there isn't a formal complaint process and establishing the formal grounds of the complaint generally requires a copy of their approved land use permit, its difficult for the public to advocate for them selves.

as populations grow, and resource development continues (more roads) and off road vehicles get more capable, the conflicts between business and recreational crown land users is going to grow.

and on that note ......if anyone happens to have copies of recreational land use permits for the cat and heli ops in the interior, it would save me a bunch of time and money with freedom of information requests.

I have considerable experience and interest in this field. Feel free to contact me if you want to get into details.

**el hefe** · 02-10-2019, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by kootenayskier

I have considerable experience and interest in this field. Feel free to contact me if you want to get into details.

Please do Mr Crawford.

**grinch** · 02-13-2019, 01:50 AM

Anyone been into smart creek lately? Wondering if this cold snap froze the creek? Nic maybe?

**nortonwhis** · 02-18-2019, 01:27 PM

Would Sorcerer Lodge fall in this thread or Rockies thread? It says Columbia Shuswap so guessing here.
Can anyone comment on snowpack / overaching PWL's or anything that would make it a bad idea to head out there in the next few weeks?
It's just outside the GNP avi report which is a lot more inspiring than the North Columbia one.