Should I stud my new winter tires?

[Name Redacted]

20+ yrs in CO and never had studs or even snows. BFG KO2 is best all round, especially for an older 4runner. Snows are OK, but you'll have to buy another set for summer or just roll snows year round and wear them out quickly.

[auvgeek]

Snows are OK, but you'll have to buy another set for summer or just roll snows year round and wear them out quickly.

It sounds like he already has semi-worn Duratracs, so he can keep those and get a cheap set of steelies in spring.

There's certainly advantages to having just one set of tires, especially living in Denver, but (like I said before) you have to consider whether you're willing to replace your "all-weather" tires if the winter traction goes in the fall/winter, which might be earlier than you'd typically replace a summer tire.

OTOH, we never even put our studded tires on last season, so there's that. If I lived there full time, I'd do what that one dude does and throw on the studs when the storms come and take them off when it's gonna be 70F for weeks randomly mid-winter.

[muted]

20+ yrs in CO and never had studs or even snows.

Your tires are dang good for sure, but if you've never had snow tires or studs your opinion is a bit one-sided, no?

[dcpnz]

20+ yrs in CO and never had studs or even snows.

15+ yrs in CO. Always run snows, not studs in winter. Would never not have them living here.
Try them, you might like them.

[Jethro]

34 years driving in Colorado. In my opinion, nothing beats a studded snow tire or a tire like a Blizzack. You might get by with your all seasons and 4 wheel drive, but the same vehicle with dedicated snow tires just performs better. Going with a lesser tire is just a way of justifying not cracking open your wallet and buying proper tires. Plus, having two sets doubles your tire milage

[Djongo Unchained]

28 yrs driving in JH, about 10 of those as a commercial driver. I have a '95 Pathy with 2 sets, 4wd; and a front WD vw sportwagen with 2 sets, Both winter sets are studded.

Unlike Op's front range environs...He doesn't need studs, just a snow tread.

My experience says an inexpensive snow tire is as good as the hyper priced ones. Newness is key. Look into the Federal Himalayas on simple tire.com; That is an old as the hills proven snow tread. And cheap enough to run yr round and sticky in summer.

edit: and in my experience, BFG Ko's suck on any really slick surface.

[2FUNKY]

The old KO, yes, new compound KO2, not so much.

[ill-advised strategy]

I recommend having to sets of tires. I use Michelin pilot sport 4 during the summer and Nokian Hakkas for winter. This is what everybody is doing in Scandinavia. It takes ten minutes to swap them.

The (expensive, but nice) way to go is two complete sets of tires and wheels and a cordless impact driver and a good floor jack. That way you keep your snow tires fresh by not driving around on dry pavement and you can do a quicky nascar swap out if you get a severe early or late season storm. Dealing with tire shops suxx, I have one across the damn street from my house and I still hate having to pay them to do anything.

[jackattack]

Plus, having two sets doubles your tire milage

Does it?

[Flounder]

35 years of VT driving. Stopped running studs a decade ago but both vehicles are AWD. Since I got my first set of Nokians I've only run them. They far exceed any other snow tire IMO. I did try and run the KO2 for a winter but they are no where near the grip. That winter was the only time I got knocked off the road. Clipped by an out of control Subaru and spun out. If I had the Nokians I think I could have maintained control.

[XXX-er]

Does it?

well I have 8 tires and I swap them instead of just running the same 4, so even tho i flunked math ... its fairly simple

I got the original 4ply goodyears (shittty) and 10ply studded haks on my ranger, so i havent bought any tires in 115,000 kms and 8 years

The dealer I bought the haks & rims from will swap them for free twice a year and retork the studs after 100kms so buying steel rims for my snowtires instead of paying for the tire swaps twice a year pays for the extra rims in < 3 yrs

[Cruiser]

I had the transition from all season to winter tires down to about 20m all in with an electric impact and a floor jack. Had my coveralls and gloves hanging right above the floor jack. So all I had to do was walk into the garage and do the work.

[mattig]

Does it?

Going into my 4th season on my deranged lunatic nokians and they still look new.

Klauss, I will race you...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Evil E]

I disagree somewhat -- stud technology is also progressing. I wouldn't necessarily choose studs for Denver now that I understand the weather here, but I don't think that's a fair generalization. If you look at test data comparing the best studded tires and the best studless tires, they perform nearly equivalently on all surfaces except ice, where studs perform MUCH better. Studs are just a better tire with minimal downside except road noise and rolling resistance (mpg). But they're also total overkill for Denver.

But this is all beaten to death (and then some) in the "all weather tires" thread.

I actually have that exact tire studded on my 4 runner. In Denver they suck at plowing side roads so I really like running them because we deal with ice more than you would think in the city. As long as you drive cautiously they’re fine. I have not decided if I dislike my 4runners snow performance or if the tires aren’t that great. I ran the same tire Unstudded on my Quattro Audi and it was badass so I’m thinking the 4Runner just likes to swing it’s ass around.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[summit]

16 years in CO highcountry:

1. Yried the first winter on all seasons, fine didn't drive much.

2. Then tried hi performance (read corner well, but less traction) T rates snows year round. They worked great! Put them on in the fall, replace them next fall $$$

3. Good Year Wrangler SA are almost as good as equivalent sized high performance snow tires most of the time.

4. Wider tread AT tires that are upsized with a LT C load
+
Narrow high grip studless snows with a standard diameter

Large difference there for both seasons. 245/70/17 Blizzak DM-V2 studdless and 275/70/17 Kuhmo Venture AT51 LT C(or BFG KAO2) are a great winter/summer combo for a 4runner.

Narrowing the winter tires makes them cut through slush sooo much better and are more likely to get down to pavement.

I've never run studs. Maybe I'm missing out.

[Jethro]

Close enough. Neither at or snow tires give you the milage of a highway specific tire. I run studded snows from now until April. Usually they are not on now but today I put them on to go cut firewood in the high country, mostly on super muddy roads

[Jethro]

I've never run studs. Maybe I'm missing out.

It depends where you live. For 95% of Denver driving, they’d suck and just get worn out quickly. I’m near aspen and it’s about a 3-5 mile drive to work or skiing. My winter milage is pretty small, and my spiky tires work well and last for at least 6 years, before I pull the studs and run them in the summer. I can pull all the studs out of my Cooper discovery studded snows in about 15 minutes

[klauss]

Going into my 4th season on my deranged lunatic nokians and they still look new.

Klauss, I will race you...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Ha. I get all bent out of shape exercising around town when soccer moms with studs on go by in their suburbans knowing it's for the 1 week a year trip to sunriver. I blame all road maintenance and air quality issues on these people and makes me feel better about the 15 MPGs I get in my whip. your nokian studded are legit and at least suck up into the tire in warmer temps. It's the cheap ass studded tires that are the worst.

[summit]

It depends where you live. For 95% of Denver driving, they’d suck and just get worn out quickly. I’m near aspen and it’s about a 3-5 mile drive to work or skiing. My winter milage is pretty small, and my spiky tires work well and last for at least 6 years, before I pull the studs and run them in the summer. I can pull all the studs out of my Cooper discovery studded snows in about 15 minutes

shoulda said 16 years in the highcountry. the studs are tempting for the snowpacked and ice... but the blizzaks do work so well I wonder how much better it could be... but maybe some studded nokians would last longer

[galibier_numero_un]

shoulda said 16 years in the highcountry. the studs are tempting for the snowpacked and ice... but the blizzaks do work so well I wonder how much better it could be... but maybe some studded nokians would last longer

I think durability is the big thing, whether it's studded Nokians or Hakkapeliittas. That half tread thing (after which the Blizzak magic is gone) is the big source of buttheart in the wallet for me.

I took @auvgeek's lead and picked up studded Nokians to replace my Hakkapeliittas. I noticed a minor improvement in snowpack/ice. Of course it's hard to be definitive because I was going from memory of when the Hakkas were new.

The thinking about going to studs was counterintuitive. Because I'm in the Front Range with all of the warm days, the slightly harder rubber on the studded Nokians would (in theory) last longer, at least that's what the Nokian rep told @auvgeek.

As it was, my Hakkas ran for 37,000 miles and I ran them well into the shoulder seasons. When I retired them, they still had about 3.5mm of tread.

I'm not sure which way I'll go for the next set, other than that it will most likely be something from Nokian (I'm guessing that wouldn't cry if I had X-ices).

I have to say that driving through Montucky last February on rutty, snowpack/ice was a joy with the studded Nokians.

... Thom

[mattig]

Ha. I get all bent out of shape exercising around town when soccer moms with studs on go by in their suburbans knowing it's for the 1 week a year trip to sunriver. I blame all road maintenance and air quality issues on these people and makes me feel better about the 15 MPGs I get in my whip. your nokian studded are legit and at least suck up into the tire in warmer temps. It's the cheap ass studded tires that are the worst.

I hear ya. I would not run them on a commuter vehicle. I'm probably among a select few in this area whose snow tires are on snow/ice but more than 10% of the time. Joys of working from home...

If I drove my truck more in town, I'd get regular Hakks for Dec-April and keep running KO2 for everything else.



Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[auvgeek]

The thinking about going to studs was counterintuitive. Because I'm in the Front Range with all of the warm days, the slightly harder rubber on the studded Nokians would (in theory) last longer, at least that's what the Nokian rep told @auvgeek.

Actually that's a conclusion I drew from a youtube video with a Nokian rep/spokesman, which I posted in the all-weather tires thread. He basically said he didn't see why you wouldn't run the studded tires unless it was illegal for you -- his claim was the Hakka 8 studded is as good or better than the Hakka R2 (nonstudded) in basically every condition, but especially ice, and that they last longer too because the rubber isn't as soft.

It sounds like Nokian has been experimenting with different rubber for their nonstudded line because all the marketing claims about the R3 are how they're less squirmy with improved wet performance. Which is good cuz R2 was near last in all wet braking tests I've seen. Though those improvements are possibly at the expense of snow/ice performance, if Betel's impressions are accurate. I haven't seen any tire test data with the R3 yet, so it's possible his impressions vs Blizzaks are accurate and it's not just his personal opinion/perference there.

I have to say that driving through Montucky last February on rutty, snowpack/ice was a joy with the studded Nokians.

When we've driven our studded Hakka 8s on ice and snow, they have been unbelievably good. Like, "try to make them slide for fun and they won't" good (which coincidentally I don't recommend doing with your wife in the car). I haven't driven a modern studless tire, but they're definitely a big step above the generic studs I used to run in WA and the Yoko G015 3PMSF-rated all-weather tires we run for 3 season use.

But all of this is a little off topic for the OP's use because he doesn't want to spend the coin on Nokians.

[summit]

Hakka 8 vs 9 vs LT?

I'm probably going to stick with the Blizzaks right now because the way our tires are with an undriven spare between two vehicles, I can replace my worn out Blizzaks with just 3 instead of buying a set of 5 Hakka studded.

[XXX-er]

Actually that's a conclusion I drew from a youtube video with a Nokian rep/spokesman, which I posted in the all-weather tires thread. He basically said he didn't see why you wouldn't run the studded tires unless it was illegal for you -- his claim was the Hakka 8 studded is as good or better than the Hakka R2 (nonstudded) in basically every condition, but especially ice, and that they last longer too because the rubber isn't as soft.

It sounds like Nokian has been experimenting with different rubber for their nonstudded line because all the marketing claims about the R3 are how they're less squirmy with improved wet performance. Which is good cuz R2 was near last in all wet braking tests I've seen. Though those improvements are possibly at the expense of snow/ice performance, if Betel's impressions are accurate. I haven't seen any tire test data with the R3 yet, so it's possible his impressions vs Blizzaks are accurate and it's not just his personal opinion/perference there.

When we've driven our studded Hakka 8s on ice and snow, they have been unbelievably good. Like, "try to make them slide for fun and they won't" good (which coincidentally I don't recommend doing with your wife in the car). I haven't driven a modern studless tire, but they're definitely a big step above the generic studs I used to run in WA and the Yoko G015 3PMSF-rated all-weather tires we run for 3 season use.

But all of this is a little off topic for the OP's use because he doesn't want to spend the coin on Nokians.

Same here never tried ice tires ^^ as a high milage road warrior I was on studded Hak 1,2,7 on the golfs and now 10ply Hak studs on the ranger for the last 17 yars up here in the narth, I think the studded tires last longer than ice tires


Yes they are noisy but on snow & ice there is no compromise and they have saved my ass which is why I buy THE BEST studded snow tires ... not to save money


maybe when going too fast anyway you compromise some handling on wet or dry roads with studs but you can like slow down

[auvgeek]

Hakka 8 vs 9 vs LT?

Hakka 9, unless you definitely need E load rating for towing, etc. My understanding is the Hakka 9 has their best, latest-greatest stud technology.