Should I stud my new winter tires?

[toastybroski]

Looking to get some winter tires tomorrow. I am planning on getting the hankook ipike rw11 on an old 96 4runner 4x4. Having never ran anything other than duratracs I have a few questions...

I live in denver but only commute a mile to work. Ski about once a week but go more often in big storms. The duratracs were great at first but are horrible now that they are worn. For typical ski driving (berthoud, loveland, hoosier pass) are winter tires significantly better than a new duratrac, and are studs going to benefit the hardpacked roads you typically get in big storms? I was told studs actually hurt performance in hardpack. Everywhere I look is giving conflicting advice. I don't exactly think of Colorado as an icy place after coming from the northeast.

Anyone have any experience with that exact tire? It is about half the price of the studless premium tires.

[gretch6364]

Duratracs were never going to be a good snow tire. Good in the mud however. I have had pretty darn good luck with the BFG KOs in the snow and they are pretty good in the mud. I have no idea about studs.

[Woodsy]

Snow tires make a hudge difference, you dont need studs. Drove up and down both COttonwod canyons for years with Blizzaks on a suburu, including 2 years of daily travel when I worked up BCC. Even in a full on night time blizzard, low gear easy to the bottom

[Shredhead]

Studs would drive you crazy in Denver. The rw11’s are probably just fine for Denver/I70.

I live in the RFV and put studded Hankooks on my wife’s car as late as possible. They are loud.

Jr has Duratrac’s on his 4R and gets around here fine. He does spend a lot of time in the desert.

[adrenalated]

My truck came with a set of Hankook snow tires. I don't know what model. Duratracs have been far better in the snow in Colorado for me, even when worn. YMMV.
Studs are fairly pointless in the Front Range IMO.

[toastybroski]

My truck came with a set of Hankook snow tires. I don't know what model. Duratracs have been far better in the snow in Colorado for me, even when worn. YMMV.
Studs are fairly pointless in the Front Range IMO.

Yeah my duratracs were great when I got them but do not inspire confidence anymore. I am going to be really bummed if dedicated winter tires are worse. Goodyear just released a new tire called ultra terrains that are supposed to be even better than duratracs that I would get for my summer tires but im on the fence if I should just get those now.

[Muggydude]

Since you're not putting a lot of miles except when going to the mtns, get a soft snow tire. I really like Blizzaks

[Bobcat Sig]

+1 on snows. I've done the BFG, DuraTrac and Cooper ST Maxx route. All worked great. Then I bought proper snow tires for a prior euro trash SUV (mainly because finding a second wheel set was too expensive) and they were a revelation. I've since sold that vehicle.

However, on the current bougie ski conveyance, I did find a second set of wheels and fitted them with BFG KO2s and they are as advertised - really good. After all, shouldn't all oil burning pepper wagons be shod with beefy AT tires?

Broski; get the snows for your 4Runner.

[klauss]

The studless snows i've been privvy to - Nokian and Blizzaks were way Way better than running duratracs in the snow. The duratrac is a good a/t snow rated tire and adequate for snow, but you can do wall rides with dedicated studless. Studded tires in the valley are for deranged lunatics, although I'd take a set if I lived year round in the alpine.

[jackattack]

Any tire is horrible when it’s worn... duratrac is just about the best a/t mid tire I’ve ever had for snow but a dedicated snow tire set beats all for winter driving.

[2FUNKY]

No need for studs based on you’re driving situation.
Dedicated Winter tire>BFGKO2 but not by much>Duratracs> non snow flake rated AT tire.

[toastybroski]

No need for studs based on you’re driving situation.
Dedicated Winter tire>BFGKO2 but not by much>Duratracs> non snow flake rated AT tire.

Does this include cheap winter tires like the one I mentioned or the specific studless ones.

[auvgeek]

Couple thoughts:

- If you decide to go studded, factory studded is the only way to go. Certainly don't have them do it at the shop.

- If you decide to go all-weather, consider whether you'll replace them when winter performance starts to get dangerous but there's plenty of tire left for summer use.

Personally, I'd get a studless snow and call it good. The Blizzak tires always scared me away because some (or all?) have a variable density compound that is great in the snow until the soft rubber wears out.

[skaredshtles]

<snip>

Personally, I'd get a studless snow and call it good. The Blizzak tires always scared me away because some (or all?) have a variable density compound that is great in the snow until the soft rubber wears out.

Having run both the Michy X-Ice and the Blizzaks on our Honda van - X-Ice hands down. Better dry performance, quieter, and if the snow performance was not as good as the Blizzaks, I couldn't tell.

[adrenalated]

Does this include cheap winter tires like the one I mentioned or the specific studless ones.

IME - no. High end winter tires are better. Cheap winter tires are not.
In addition to the Hankooks above I have run cheap General Altimax Arctics on two 2wd cars and while they are sufficient for getting me around the city on snowy days, they are certainly no better than the Duratracs. But I've driven friends vehicles with Blizzaks and Nokians and they are absolutely better.
Tires are definitely one of those things where you get what you pay for.

[plugboots]

IME - no. High end winter tires are better. Cheap winter tires are not.

This.
We have three cars, and now three sets of dedicated all seasons for the summer months, and dedicated non-studded winter tires, (the new tire technology is such that studs aren’t the cool thing anymore). It’s so much better to drive with really good tires.

[auvgeek]

(the new tire technology is such that studs aren’t the cool thing anymore).

I disagree somewhat -- stud technology is also progressing. I wouldn't necessarily choose studs for Denver now that I understand the weather here, but I don't think that's a fair generalization. If you look at test data comparing the best studded tires and the best studless tires, they perform nearly equivalently on all surfaces except ice, where studs perform MUCH better. Studs are just a better tire with minimal downside except road noise and rolling resistance (mpg). But they're also total overkill for Denver.

But this is all beaten to death (and then some) in the "all weather tires" thread.

[toastybroski]

I disagree somewhat -- stud technology is also progressing. I wouldn't necessarily choose studs for Denver now that I understand the weather here, but I don't think that's a fair generalization. If you look at test data comparing the best studded tires and the best studless tires, they perform nearly equivalently on all surfaces except ice, where studs perform MUCH better. Studs are just a better tire with minimal downside except road noise and rolling resistance (mpg). But they're also total overkill for Denver.

But this is all beaten to death (and then some) in the "all weather tires" thread.

Yeah that just doesnt seem like much of a downside when youre at $90 per tire vs $150 per tire.

[auvgeek]

Yeah that just doesnt seem like much of a downside when youre at $90 per tire vs $150 per tire.

Note that I said "best studded to best studless." That means factory studded tires, like the Nokian Hakka 8/9 and a bunch of other tires that aren't available in the US or NA (Continental IceContact 2, factory-studded Hankook Winter I*Pike RS, etc). Prices are about the same, if not more, for an excellent factory-studded tire.

Tires studded by your local shop will be put to shame by modern studless tires on dry and wet pavement (which is probably 90%-97% of your driving time/miles in the front range), perform about equivalently on snow, if you're lucky (which is like 3-9% of the time) and do marginally better on pure ice (which is maybe 1% of the time).

[GeezerSteve]

X-Ice hands down. Better dry performance, quieter, and if the snow performance was not as good as the Blizzaks, I couldn't tell.

+1

[muted]

Beware advice from people who drive reasonably and prudent during snow storms or when roads are covered with snow. Any snow tire seems great to them. And don't listen to anyone who thinks studs are completely useless, the braking power with studs is fucking incredible on snowy roads with med to small cars. If you own a big truck, studs can sometimes be a lifesaver in bad conditions for sure, but aren't as effective as they are in smaller vehicles and often aren't worth it.

That said, you don't need studs living in Denver. And I've only run factory installed studs, never had ones done at the local shop.

[plugboots]

BTW, I agree with auvgeek's posts etc. The OP really wasn't asking for best studded vs. best studless. The new stud tech were the studs bend into the tire is pretty effing cool. Sticking studs into a tire with a wrench, to only have them wear down to rounded nubs really isn't that cool after about 1000 miles of pavement without snow.
New tire tech has made a lot of these comparisons kinda silly, because they never seem to compare apples to apples.

I absofuckinglutely do not drive what non-snow driving people think of as safe and prudent.

[toastybroski]

BTW, I agree with auvgeek's posts etc. The OP really wasn't asking for best studded vs. best studless. The new stud tech were the studs bend into the tire is pretty effing cool. Sticking studs into a tire with a wrench, to only have them wear down to rounded nubs really isn't that cool after about 1000 miles of pavement without snow.
New tire tech has made a lot of these comparisons kinda silly, because they never seem to compare apples to apples.

I absofuckinglutely do not drive what non-snow driving people think of as safe and prudent.

I mean all I really want to know is if the low end tires I am looking at (hankook ipike rw11) are better than my old duratracs. It is only $20 more to have them studded so I wasn't sure if it was worth it for a ski car or not. I am getting more confused the bigger this thread gets but from the sound of it for purely snow performance that tire should be the same as higher end ones but will be shittier on ice without studs, but for some reason I shouldn't get studs

edit: Plus I am asking you guys since you all know what actual snow driving is unlike half the shit I read online.

[plugboots]

A lot of people don't like studs because on wet pavement they slide more, (especially on smooth wet concrete), and they are noisy. I personally don't mind a slight buzzing from the tires, but I drive mostly German cars, not SUV/trucks. The studs, as has been mentioned, really help on ice.
Everybody has different needs. I drive to a snowy/slushy pass every weekend and more, and drive wet pavement all winter on non pass driving days with an AWD car. Maybe driving dry pavement in and around Denver, then driving over a cold dry snow pass is different for you. When I lived in Eastern WA with black ice every fucking day, I had studs.

[LiveLarger]

If you are living in a city, I would go for proper winter tires. Nokian Hakka is great. Given that you live in a city, I'd say go for the non-studded ones. If you were living upon the mountains, studded is a no-brainer. This said, don't ever stud your regular tires. They should come studded from the factory and be in great shape, if you want studs. Don't let any local dope smoking greasemonkey convince you otherwise.