NE Roll Call 18/19

**danmelon** · 02-21-2019, 08:55 AM

Damn what a bummer man, mega vibes to his family. Stay safe out there.

**Self Jupiter** · 02-21-2019, 08:55 AM

RIP ++++vibes++++

**The Tortoise** · 02-21-2019, 09:28 AM

Ugh. That's terrible terrible news.

**Goniff** · 02-21-2019, 01:45 PM

Devastating. Hard to imagine what's going through his brother's head. https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...B2K/story.html

**Peruvian** · 02-21-2019, 01:52 PM

Apparently he was climbing with a mountaineering axe instead of ice tools. Not sure if that makes much difference as the article notes he tried to self arrest.

**Boreas** · 02-21-2019, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Peruvian

Apparently he was climbing with a mountaineering axe instead of ice tools. Not sure if that makes much difference as the article notes he tried to self arrest.

9 out of 10 times it’s easier to self arrest with a mountaineering axe. Ice axes due to their concave curve tend to skate or jump in hard slope arrests. Mountaineering axes with convex heads tend to bite into the snow. Also, speed is not friendly to those wearing crampons. Judging by my experience yesterday on hourglass, neither would help on the blue ice unless the first stick stuck in the ice.

**Goniff** · 02-21-2019, 03:14 PM

Is climbing without a rope in this location with these icy conditions commonplace?

**Self Jupiter** · 02-21-2019, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Boreas

Also, speed is not friendly to those wearing crampons. Judging by my experience yesterday on hourglass, neither would help on the blue ice unless the first stick stuck in the ice.

Can you help me understand the crampons at speed comment? Does the traction induce tumbling? TIA

**Bottleman** · 02-21-2019, 03:20 PM

Sad and sobering story.

**Boreas** · 02-21-2019, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Can you help me understand the crampons at speed comment? Does the traction induce tumbling? TIA

When you fall or slide the natural instinct is to plant your feet. With crampons the spikes dig in and either break your ankles or flip into a tomohawk. Think 170#’s on the lowest part of your body. Either way it’s very bad, the rule of thumb is legs up knees/elbows in and avoid your feet touching until you are stopped.

**Peruvian** · 02-21-2019, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Boreas

When you fall or slide the natural instinct is to plant your feet. With crampons the spikes dig in and either break your ankles or flip into a tomohawk. Think 170#’s on the lowest part of your body. Either way it’s very bad, the rule of thumb is legs up knees/elbows in and avoid your feet touching until you are stopped.

Never glissade with crampons on.

**Boreas** · 02-21-2019, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Goniff

Is climbing without a rope in this location with these icy conditions commonplace?

Yes, Central is a walk up for most people used to ice climbing/ mountaineering. Among many ice climbers Central is a down climb to solo Odell’s, Pinnacle, Yale, Damnation, North, etc.

While I’ve never done it this way, I imagine most people climb Central to access Diagonal without ropes.

**Boreas** · 02-21-2019, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Peruvian

Never glissade with crampons on.

My right right ankle agrees with the above.

**MrsG** · 02-21-2019, 03:57 PM

Condolences to the family - what a tragic loss!!

Just going to add - Killington Spring Pass on sale.
https://www.killington.com/plan-your...er-spring-pass

**jackstraw** · 02-21-2019, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Boreas

Yes, Central is a walk up for most people used to ice climbing/ mountaineering. Among many ice climbers Central is a down climb to solo Odell’s, Pinnacle, Yale, Damnation, North, etc.

While I’ve never done it this way, I imagine most people climb Central to access Diagonal without ropes.

Unfortunately, he just made a mistake. One little mistake is all it takes. Brutal. Sounds like he knew how to self arrest, but it is almost impossible like you said.
I practiced with a mountaineering axe a couple times and it is really hard to do. You need to get the axe under your weight. It's relatively easy to position yourself if you start that way, but falling, gaining speed instantly, and then getting situated and in the correct position...so hard. Man, I thought about an actual fall after practicing and realized I would never ever want to be put in that position.

**JayPowHound** · 02-21-2019, 04:05 PM

What a shame. We didn't know him, but my wife works at Children's and has a very similar last name, so has mistakenly recieved his emails from time to time. Vibes to the family, friends and co-workers who will miss him.

**buttahflake** · 02-21-2019, 04:07 PM

Spring Pass! I’m in.
Let’s Party

**Boreas** · 02-21-2019, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by jackstraw

Unfortunately, he just made a mistake. One little mistake is all it takes. Brutal. Sounds like he knew how to self arrest, but it is almost impossible like you said.
I practiced with a mountaineering axe a couple times and it is really hard to do. You need to get the axe under your weight. It's relatively easy to position yourself if you start that way, but falling, gaining speed instantly, and then getting situated and in the correct position...so hard. Man, I thought about an actual fall after practicing and realized I would never ever want to be put in that position.

It doesn’t take much, a miss step, a crampon caught on snow, rock , ice. It’s unfortunate.

**Goniff** · 02-21-2019, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by MrsG

Condolences to the family - what a tragic loss!!

Just going to add - Killington Spring Pass on sale.
https://www.killington.com/plan-your...er-spring-pass

Thanks for the heads-up MrsG! My favorite time of the season.

**robrox** · 02-21-2019, 05:12 PM

Too sad about the death of Dr. Ullmann to post about my trivial day. Seems like he did his best to live through it. RIP

**Generalstark** · 02-21-2019, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Peruvian

Apparently he was climbing with a mountaineering axe instead of ice tools. Not sure if that makes much difference as the article notes he tried to self arrest.

According to whom? Forest service post says he was carrying multiple axes. Doesn’t specify whether he had mountaineering axes or ice axes.

His brother turned around and he kept going? Wtf?

As others have suggested the conditions were not ideal for self arresting with whatever type of axe he had.

It sucks he died and I feel for his wife and kid and brother. Holy fuck his brother...But keep going when your partner backs off? Seems weird....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**T-dub** · 02-21-2019, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by robrox

Too sad about the death of Dr. Ullmann to post about my trivial day. Seems like he did his best to live through it. RIP

no, your report is exactly what's needed here. Dr Ullmann would concur is my thought. post it.

**Boreas** · 02-21-2019, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Generalstark

But keep going when your partner backs off? Seems weird....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s not that uncommon, I’ve done it, watched people do it, partners have done it to me. Sometimes you don’t like the conditions, sometimes someone is tired, sometimes you want to solo something else based on conditions.

**robrox** · 02-21-2019, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by T-dub

no, your report is exactly what's needed here. Dr Ullmann would concur is my thought. post it.

Thin crust extravaganza on Cardigan. Slashed through easily, felt like ball bearings under the crust.

Skied woods for a couple of laps then exited via Duke's.

Duke's in good shape,except for the upper dip. That was a double drain blowout challenge, best skied cautiously. The left side of the big dip just above Practice hill was a moderate compression. Thin line at skiers right alongside practice hill was fun.