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  1. #3176
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    I feel bummed we weren't given a heads up about free hot chocolate
    6 people.showed up but hey lets.pretend there was an event. All 6 people were event organizers.....a few other organizers were no shows. Hilarious.

  2. #3177
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    base of the Bush
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    Exactly! Not enough inclusion.

    Headed out tomorrow for a long sunny recon tour for vitamin D ect..


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    The dust cloud coming off the lot reminds of the Joads

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    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  3. #3178
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    Dec 2002
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    cow hampshire
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    4,137
    Quote Originally Posted by train07 View Post
    apparently new in the 2001 -2002 season..at least the binders aren't markers..have a blast
    Right one!

    Used you Sally on biachais!¡

    and fuck you you biatches I'm on a bunch of fucking you tequila and yeah fuck you j
    Hajahaja

  4. #3179
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    Dec 2002
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    cow hampshire
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Right one!

    Used you Sally on biachais!¡

    and fuck you you biatches I'm on a bunch of fucking you tequila and yeah fuck you j
    Hajahaja

  5. #3180
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    Dec 2002
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    cow hampshire
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    4,137
    Few.. .. fuck you !

  6. #3181
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    Mar 2008
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    on the rivah, VT
    Posts
    2,020
    git sum dooood
    go Go GO!

    18-19: 86! 17-18: 80. 16-17: 56. 15-16: 40. 14-15: 33. 13-14: 56ish. 12-13: 51. 11-12: 65. 10-11: 69. 09-10: 65.

  7. #3182
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    Dec 2002
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    cow hampshire
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Few.. .. fuck you !
    Ftw.

  8. #3183
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    Nov 2008
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    5,354
    A late entry from my bud who was on the ice with us.

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  9. #3184
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Timbers of Fennario
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    2,116
    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Right one!

    Used you Sally on biachais!¡

    and fuck you you biatches I'm on a bunch of fucking you tequila and yeah fuck you j
    Hajahaja
    And you were giving me shit on wind speeds this morning, go figure...Jose ftw!

    Today's powerline cut tour for vitamin c (microspikes in place of board, cramps should have been the weapons of choice) yielded nothing but a sore clavicle and a solid case of wind burn but the dogs seemed to have a good time so there was at least one positive.
    Last edited by FussyDutchman; 02-09-2019 at 08:34 PM.

  10. #3185
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    Dec 2003
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    here
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    jackstraw, the crack of noon is looking good

  11. #3186
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    Jan 2012
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    Gateway to The Greens
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    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    I have been trying to find a link to the actual full survey as I find the "facts" presented utter bullshit. So far I have had no luck. I did find they put a series of counter out to track visits, so the number presented is an approximate guess of total visits. There is no way to know if one person passed by a counter(s) several times. Without a 24/7 manned service desk there is no way to know how many of the visits were by unique visitors vs repeat skiers.
    I don't have a dog in this race and really have no idea where they got the data for economics related to the study. My comment related to the number of "visits" corresponding to actual visitors is related to what was stated in the article in Ski and Ride you shared.

    From that article: "The guy parked next to me, with Massachusetts plates, said "“I drive here pretty much every weekend, ski all day and then head home.”" He put his skins on and disappeared up the Long Trail toward Goshen Mountain and the backcountry powder runs of Brandon Gap."

    "According to a new study by the SE Group, he was one of the 3,268 people who skied or rode the unmaintained, unpatrolled glades there between January 5 and April 4, 2018."

    To me, these statements imply that he is one of the 3,268 people that visited Brandon Gap during the study period, and he like others may have visited more than once. Is it possible that the author of the article misinterpreted the actual meaning of "visits"? Most definitely, especially given they couldn't even get the route number where BG is located correct.

    Clearly the trail counter methodology used to estimate visitation is not perfect, but based on personal experience at BG I would say that their estimate could be pretty accurate. Whether or not the 3,268 visits refers to visitors or visits is unclear, but if the article is correct then it is visitors, some of whom may have gone to BG once, and some of whom may have gone multiple times.

    Did each of those visitors spend $642 (2.1 million/3268) in local establishments while they were visiting BG? Probably not IMO as quite a few of them, such as myself, probably spent little to no $. I personally have bought several 4-packs at Foley Brothers and have had some beers and food in Brandon while in the area but def. not $642.

    But, I bet there are BG visitors that have spent more than $642 total during their one or multiple visits to BG. With an airbnb for a couple nights, a meal or two and some supplies, that could add up pretty quick especially if they are making more than one visit.

    It is extremely difficult to track tourist behaviors and buying habits and for that reason I am quite sure the authors of the study do not intend this to be some kind of factual presentation of what is going on at BG. But, it does certainly help to better understand the economic impacts of this type of project.

    I hope we can all agree that the BG Rasta project and others do bring more people to a part of VT that otherwise would not, and they do bring $$$ with them.

  12. #3187
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    Sep 2008
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    9,170

    NE Roll Call 18/19

    the value is related to all of the sweet instagram pictures i take at rasta. as an official ‘influencer’ each one is about 10k but i have given them to the state at a discounted rate. if anything the value stated deeply underestimates the value of my grams and ill have to sue vermont to renegotiate the terms and raise funds for fyrefest 2 and burning man. or you guys can try to right this injustice by mailing lawson’s and ben and jerry’s pints over the border before this turns into a national incident and we have to build the wall eh
    .....I hope you know that this will go down on your permanent record

    http://procatinator.com/?cat=80

  13. #3188
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,146
    With a trail counter it would be impossible to distinguish the same guy over and over vs. One guy once. It counts a body moving past a counter. That happened 3200 times in the 12 week period. They are washing that number through an economic multiplier that claims to amplify the value of one dollar spent. Pd course that economic theory is just that. It s the same theory that was the justification for corporate bailouts which we can now say with certainty benefitted the top 1 to 1/10 percent.
    The economy of Vermont grows every year. The wealth gap grows every year. The only gains for to the top 1 percent. Vtdigger publishes a report on it nor long ago. The report cited the shift to services based economy. This type of bullshit is the justification. Just the facts.
    Last edited by DaveVt; 02-10-2019 at 09:23 AM.

  14. #3189
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    Jan 2012
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    Gateway to The Greens
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    446
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    Just the facts.
    You presented no facts... just your opinion. Big difference.

    It's one study which nobody is considering to be fact. And, it is not that difficult using trail counters to get a good estimate of usage. It is done all the time with wildlife studies, and estimating use of trails. Is it perfect? No... but better than nothing.

    Feel free to present a better or more accurate study or attempt to quantify use and economic development.

  15. #3190
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Back in the barrel again
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    I'll have to agree with Generalstark's comments on visit vs visitor and local expenses made by visitors.

    I took two runs in two sectors from one parking area at BG, to me it's one visit. I spent under $20 at Sandy's in Rochester and hit the road. I was staying at a family member's cabin, took meals at the cabin. True, when we headed home we did stop at The Store for an olive oil refil and a pack of Vermints. No way we spent even $50 in two days....probably a lot less. We gassed up the Powdaru in Warner, NH, on the way up and on the way back.

    IMO the data are poorly obtained and poorly interpreted. If a guy (visitor) in his late sixties gets two runs (visits), younger people may be getting even more, possibly 3 to 5 runs. Then there are vehicle occupancy differences. Carpooling is still a thing, there could be two or more visitors in each vehicle.

    All that being said, the skiing was really fine on the day I visited. Sure the confulent zones were a bit scraped off. but the pow made that of little importance. The value to skiers is high, the economic value to the locality is probably lower than stated but there is a long-term potential for that impact being rather important.

    As the warmer winters and the jet-stream variables evolve, VT will need the glade zones to continue drawing out-of-state visitors while the ski areas start up and grow their forest regen plans on most of their currently wide open, barren slopes. Will the Glade Users make up for the climatic revenue drains? No, they can't, for many reasons. There will be a slowing of the drain due to Glade Zone users.

    Will there be a magnified impact when there are Glade Zone user fatalities? Probably. The political axion about "no 'bad' press", will not apply.
    The sad truth is that whine does not age well

  16. #3191
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    Apr 2007
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    2,146
    The facts are found in the study of economics in general and in the article on vtdigger. If it matters enough to you you can do your own research and you will find it to be the truth.

  17. #3192
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    Feb 2005
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    Back in the barrel again
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    Quote Originally Posted by ml242 View Post
    the value is related to all of the sweet instagram pictures i take at rasta. as an official ‘influencer’ each one is about 10k but i have given them to the state at a discounted rate. if anything the value stated deeply underestimates the value of my grams and ill have to sue vermont to renegotiate the terms and raise funds for fyrefest 2 and burning man. or you guys can try to right this injustice by mailing lawson’s and ben and jerry’s pints over the border before this turns into a national incident and we had to build the wall eh
    Glad I finished my coffee before reading that. Contender for POTD.
    The sad truth is that whine does not age well

  18. #3193
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Big in Japan
    Posts
    35,730
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    The economy of Vermont grows every year.
    Say what? Are you talking about the micro brew biz?

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  19. #3194
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North,NorthEast
    Posts
    2,481
    I can pretty much handle any scary movie, spooky situations, etc.. but what I just “skied” at WF was absolutely terrifying. I’m gonna have nightmares for sure.

  20. #3195
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Big in Japan
    Posts
    35,730
    Triple hit of Iceface, huh?

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  21. #3196
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    Mar 2011
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    North,NorthEast
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    2,481
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Triple hit of Iceface, huh?
    Nightmares I tell ya.

  22. #3197
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    DownEast
    Posts
    200
    Marijuana income cannot be Federally reported so the financial data in the RASTA study will be flawed for certain regarding these backcountry "users". The weed is free but I charge a hefty delivery fee.

  23. #3198
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Where the north wind blows
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    646
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    The facts are found in the study of economics in general and in the article on vtdigger. If it matters enough to you you can do your own research and you will find it to be the truth.

    Since you like cherry picking articles to fit your beliefs, I’ll cherry pick from the actual report not the article.

    Second paragraph from PAI’s report.

    “In other words, Vermonters are doing about as well, or as poorly, as they’ve done for more than a decade. “

  24. #3199
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    Where the north wind blows
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    646
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    The only gains for to the top 1 percent. Vtdigger publishes a report on it nor long ago. The report cited the shift to services based economy. Just the facts.
    ^^^^Not the facts, here are the facts: the bottom 20% gained 5.8% and the middle 20% gained 20.6% with the highest gains going to the upper class. All classes had gains from 2006-2016.

    The other non factual statement, the actual report doesn’t cite a shift to the service industry as a cause. It actually cites poor policy choices as a cause, as in lawmakers neglecting social services like healthcare, childcare, affordable housing, etc. I’m guessing in this instance you’re combining this info with other articles you’ve read.

  25. #3200
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    Apr 2007
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    2,146
    https://publicassets.org/library/pub...-vermont-2018/
    Vermont’s top 1% averaged 16
    times the income of the other
    99% Average income, top 1% and bottom
    99%, 2015

    The Great Depression of 1929 was followed by more than 40 years of fairer
    income distribution. By the mid-1970s nearly 93 percent of Vermont income
    went to the bottom 99 percent of taxpayers and just over 7 percent to the
    wealthiest 1 percent—half their share during the Depression era. But Vermont’s
    economy, like the rest of the states’, grew more top heavy after the 1970s. By
    the mid-2000s Vermont’s top 1 percent were receiving as much as 17 percent
    of the income, and after the Great Recession, from 2010 to 2015, their average
    income grew twice as fast as everyone else’s. In 2015, the top 1 percent
    claimed $2.7 billion of Vermont’s total adjusted gross income of $19 billion.

    What the 2017 data show
    State of Working Vermont 2018 includes indicators to answer three questions:
    1. Did the overall Vermont economy grow, and who benefited?
    • Vermont’s economy has been growing, but not in every county and not as
    fast as the rest of the country.
    • Economic growth disproportionately benefited those at the top.
    • Vermont was one of 10 states where median household income fell in 2017.
    • Wages have been stagnant for most Vermont workers.
    2. Were Vermonters able to make ends meet?
    • Vermont’s prices were average nationally, but wages were low.
    • The cost of essentials grew faster than wages.
    • 17 percent of Vermont’s young adults lived in poverty.
    • 5,000 fewer Vermonters had health insurance in 2017 than in 2016.
    3. How was the job market for Vermonters, and who was working?
    • The number of private sector jobs continued to grow, but not everywhere
    in Vermont.
    • New jobs were concentrated in service-providing industries.
    • Labor force participation was down for all education levels.

    Job growth since 2007 in Vermont has occurred primarily in service-providing industries, while jobs have declined in goods-
    producing industries.

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