Ultralight bindings: Independent heel Pins vs U Springs (Alpinist vs Haute Route)

[summit]

So I'm debating the Marker Alpinist 9/12 vs a pricier ATK Haute Route 2

The ATK is slightly lighter and has independent heel pins (so the RV is full adjustable).

The Alpinist is heavier and significantly cheaper while having a U spring on the back which Marker says comes in either DIN 8 (on the Alpinist 9, although reviews have said anywhere from 7.5-9) or RV 11 (on the Alpinist 12 but reviews have said anywhere from 10-12).

I read the Blister Review on these two bindings (they were reviewing the Raider 2.0 which is basically a HR 2.0 without brakes I think). Supposed the U-Spring pins wear out changing the RV (lowering it?) over time. Supposedly the Marker has 4mm of spring loaded elastic travel which makes it a teeny bit damper and more reliable RV under dynamic loading. It is a bit frustrating because I'd like a RV of 9-10, but I hate to pay the ATK price.

Do U springs also damage boots? Does the RV drop with time as the U spring wears?

[GeezerSteve]

Do U springs also damage boots?

No, based on my limited experience.

Does the RV drop with time as the U spring wears?

Maybe in theory, but properly spec'd spring steel should survive tens of thousands of cycles without losing measurable RV.

[rod9301]

Hey the u spring ones, lighter and simpler

Sent from my moto g(6) using TGR Forums mobile app

[kevino]

if you want to geek out, there is a blister gear podcast where they interview guys from G3 who speak to your questions and also talk about the Zed binding. if i remember correctly their consensus is yes to your questions, hence why they went with independent heel pins. or at least part of the reason. people can correct me if i'm wrong.

[XXX-er]

The fixed release tension and inability to set different values for horiziontal/vertical means I won't be using this style of bindings unless I take up Rando racing

[doebedoe]

The fixed release tension and inability to set different values for horiziontal/vertical means I won't be using this style of bindings unless I take up Rando racing

In some cases they are pretty damn simple to swap out. Salomnos MTN explore has 3 springs it ships with, are easy to swap, and are independent from the lateral release.

[XXX-er]

so how do I crank in 1 more din like setting vertically than horizontally ?

if I can't do that I have to slow down or I get pre-release

[plugboots]

I’m pretty sure my Dynafit Vert ST’s have a U shape and my ATK Raider 12’s have the 2 pins. As Steve said the U shape doesn’t hurt the boots in any way.
The main difference that Mrs. Plug and I felt right off with the ATK’s is the lack of play and the accompanying ticking sound from the heel that we get from the Dynafits. The pins with the spring between stay in contact with the pocket on the heel of the boot and give a more alpine binding feel.
I wish BD or another distributor would carry the whole ATK line in the US in case we need parts or something. That said, the ATK’s haven’t needed a thing after 2 full seasons.

[GeezerSteve]

I’m pretty sure my Dynafit Vert ST’s have a U shape

Nope

[plugboots]

Oh yeah. Well then, the fitting of the pins on the ATK is somehow more fitting.

[summit]

The fixed release tension and inability to set different values for horiziontal/vertical means I won't be using this style of bindings unless I take up Rando racing

Lateral release (toe on an alpine binding) is fully adjustable on a lot of the U spring bindings. It is just forward lean (heel on alpine bindings) that is fixed by the U spring which is often interchangable.

I wish BD or another distributor would carry the whole ATK line in the US in case we need parts or something.

BD is offering some of the ATK line this year under their own branding.

[galibier_numero_un]

Hi. @Summit,

I'm trying hard not to be a Marker hater, but seriously, why would a first year Marker binding be on your short list?

... Thom

[doebedoe]

Hi. @Summit,

I'm trying hard not to be a Marker hater, but seriously, why would a first year Marker binding be on your short list?

... Thom

More importantly...why isn't salomon's offering on it? It's been out for a couple years and is well reviewed and liked.

[summit]

@galibier_numero_un @doebedoe

Marker does have the rather successful Kingpin going on, so not their first foray. The Alpinist seems pretty simple. I liked the flush back and slight elastic travel that the Blister review said skied a little better (less harsh) than the other Ultralights, even the ATK. And the price point is right.

I remember my old Dyna Comforts... and their harshness and vagueness. I figure the Solly/Atomic would be about the same and its heavier than the Marker... almost twice the weight of the ATK HR 2.0. In fact they are within 110g ea of Vipecs without brakes, and then why not just ski Vipecs which ski waaaay better and are safer. Or the Zeds for the same weight as the Solly/Atomic?

[XXX-er]

Lateral release (toe on an alpine binding) is fully adjustable on a lot of the U spring bindings. It is just forward lean (heel on alpine bindings) that is fixed by the U spring which is often interchangable.
.

What does alpine anything have to do with talking about how AT bindings release ?

I thot we were talking about the release values on AT bindings and how with the U springs they leave out the abilty to adj the binding to your skiing, I know I was cuz I would rather adj the binding to my skiing instead of my skiing to the binding

[rod9301]

What does alpine anything have to do with talking about how AT bindings release ?

I thot we were talking about the release values on AT bindings and how with the U springs they leave out the abilty to adj the binding to your skiing, I know I was cuz I would rather adj the binding to my skiing instead of my skiing to the binding

You are adjusting the binding with the three different springs.

Sent from my moto g(6) using TGR Forums mobile app

[reckless toboggan]

Marker does have the rather successful Kingpin going on, so not their first foray.

Lol wut?

[XXX-er]

I know that ^^ but how do I independantly adjust lateral & vertical release on u-spring bindings?

on my verts and rads ( I think comforts were the same?) instead of replacing a spring I just turn that big aluminium screw on the back of the binding using a quarter to my lateral release value which is 7 and verticaly I turn that little screw on the back of the binding to 8 which keeps me from pre-releasing

can I even get a 7 u-spring and how do I adj for vertical release of 8 if it is at all possible ?

[XXX-er]

Lol wut?

yeah the Kingpin has a recall going, a local bro had 5 failures, i got some other buddies who had 5 breakdowns in 1 weekend its at the point the local shop just fixes the stuff no questions asked without bothering to contact Marker like they did early on

And then the shop guy 400kms east sez they only had 1 failure

nobody can come up with a failure pattern

[reckless toboggan]

nobody can come up with a failure pattern

The pattern of failure is that they're Markers.


Marker has had a long and idiotic history of failures and shit design and engineering since at least the late 1980's.

[GeezerSteve]

nobody can come up with a failure pattern

So what? The failure history is all one needs to know.

[Norseman]

I know that ^^ but how do I independantly adjust lateral & vertical release on u-spring bindings?

on my verts and rads ( I think comforts were the same?) instead of replacing a spring I just turn that big aluminium screw on the back of the binding using a quarter to my lateral release value which is 7 and verticaly I turn that little screw on the back of the binding to 8 which keeps me from pre-releasing

can I even get a 7 u-spring and how do I adj for vertical release of 8 if it is at all possible ?

Dyna SSL2 has rotating heel post with adjustable lateral din, plus the fixed (upward release) din u-spring

I believe a few others are like this, too

[XXX-er]

ok so they are fixing vertical release and adjust lateral

"Lateral release value setting from 6-12 in heel. Vertical release value is fixed to roughly 10."

from ^^ an MEC add

[XXX-er]

So what? The failure history is all one needs to know.

Don't you like to know how things work ?

or don't work ?

[FlimFlamvanHam]

if you want to geek out, there is a blister gear podcast where they interview guys from G3 who speak to your questions and also talk about the Zed binding. if i remember correctly their consensus is yes to your questions, hence why they went with independent heel pins. or at least part of the reason. people can correct me if i'm wrong.

That was a good podcast.

Go to 41:00 here for the details:

http://blistergearreview.com/feature...the-new-g3-zed