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Thread: Trust Me...

  1. #26
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    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    I know it's about function...but that's hideous...just horrible looking!!!

    $2700?!?! Isn't that appx. three diamondbacks or so???
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  3. #28
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    Fail on so many levels. One travel and A to C length recommended for bikes specíd with different length forks? Sounds like youíre gonna jack your geometry and BB height. For $2700.

    If linkage forks were a viable concept weíd see them motorcycles.

    Weagleís jumped the shark on this one.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaterdit View Post
    Fail on so many levels. One travel and A to C length recommended for bikes specíd with different length forks? Sounds like youíre gonna jack your geometry and BB height. For $2700.
    That, and it's about a half a pound too heavy for a 130mm travel fork.

    If they can make a 160mm version that costs $1800 or less, weighs around 2100grams, and doesn't bottom out on the downtube, they might sell some.

  5. #30
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    I mean I'm sure it's fine for a 130mm application, aside from weight and cost. Somewhat primitive damping options but I guess on par with any 130mm fork. Prolly rides well enough. But to say it will replace any fork from 110-150 is just really wrong.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  6. #31
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    Where it differs from conventional forks is that as you work through the travel, you are actually decreasing or maintaining your head angle instead of increasing it, that is the negating effect of the off A-C heights. The last 20% of the axle travel is vertical, the rest is a rearward axle path, you are maintaining your HA through sag, as opposed to steepening it.

    The A-C is 535mm on the Message, but lets say you take your 67 deg HA bike, 25% sag of a 150mm 27.5 Pike (542mm), that is 37.5mm. or a 504.5 A-C. the 535 message minus the 20% recommended sag puts your A-C at 509mm, while maintaining or slackening the bike through that travel. Id say that is far from a fail in terms of geo. The Message only has ~5% vertical sag, the rest is horizontal, so in theory (there is a lot of snake oil until people get on these things) your BB height should be very minimally effected.

    Like I said, a lot of snake oil here until they get people on the forks. I've worked with Hap and known him for the past 8 or so years, and he doesn't waste time with bullshit. They origially were thinking this would be a 120-130 option only, spec'ing on bikes in that travel range, however after riding, they found that it was way more capable than intended. From the founders mouths "this is the one product that will have the greatest influence over your riding, period" Considering that is coming from the guy who helped bring rideable carbon MTB wheels to the market many years ago, I'll "trust" them and hope I can ride one in the near future.
    "If we can't bring the mountain to the party, let's bring the PARTY to the MOUNTAIN!"

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phall View Post
    Where it differs from conventional forks is that as you work through the travel, you are actually decreasing or maintaining your head angle instead of increasing it, that is the negating effect of the off A-C heights. The last 20% of the axle travel is vertical, the rest is a rearward axle path, you are maintaining your HA through sag, as opposed to steepening it.

    The A-C is 535mm on the Message, but lets say you take your 67 deg HA bike, 25% sag of a 150mm 27.5 Pike (542mm), that is 37.5mm. or a 504.5 A-C. the 535 message minus the 20% recommended sag puts your A-C at 509mm, while maintaining or slackening the bike through that travel. Id say that is far from a fail in terms of geo. The Message only has ~5% vertical sag, the rest is horizontal, so in theory (there is a lot of snake oil until people get on these things) your BB height should be very minimally effected.

    Like I said, a lot of snake oil here until they get people on the forks. I've worked with Hap and known him for the past 8 or so years, and he doesn't waste time with bullshit. They origially were thinking this would be a 120-130 option only, spec'ing on bikes in that travel range, however after riding, they found that it was way more capable than intended. From the founders mouths "this is the one product that will have the greatest influence over your riding, period" Considering that is coming from the guy who helped bring rideable carbon MTB wheels to the market many years ago, I'll "trust" them and hope I can ride one in the near future.
    Putting aside some assumptions that are included in your numbers, wouldn't that just mean that the sagged axle to crown is too long for bikes built around shorter travel forks?

    And 130mm is still 130mm. On smaller hits, maybe that fork can contend. But for big hits, I'm skeptical that it somehow keeps pace with a longer travel competitor.

  8. #33
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    They should focus their efforts on making a sub-40 lb, long travel, 2.8Ē tire, gearbox, ebike. That would change the world.


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  9. #34
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    Hard to tell as this is bucking trends/changing what we think we know about how suspension works on the front. Travel distance is not what we currently think of on this fork, it is not vertical. This is the key. People will need to ride this to really see the difference and until then, everything is just speculation, including what I'm saying. Its more than just #'s and their effects on angles. Considering they had Mike Giese and other people who are faster than 90% of the population testing these forks on bikes such as hightowers, switchblades, Evil Followings, etc, Its a safe bet that it is going to do everything the layperson is going to need it to.

    The negatives people are bringing up for 130mm travel bikes or smaller are actually positives, in my opinion. Your 130mm 29 pike unsagged is 531, and the message is 535, your actually going to have an increase in performance and better riding bike as you are not sacrificing ride height and head angle on the shorter bikes, so your shorter travel bikes are going to have a more planted and trail-esque feel. Lots of folks punching numbers regarding A-C/BB Heights/travel etc are all focused on static published dimensions (frames) from manufacturers which do not take into account suspension sag, nor its affects on the riding. Also, they publish the travel number and sag number as they need to keep a consistency in the industry, but its just different.
    "If we can't bring the mountain to the party, let's bring the PARTY to the MOUNTAIN!"

  10. #35
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    I'm not fully on board yet, either FYI until I can get on one, nor am I trying to argue, just trying to help people understand that its just, different. Like, an entirely new concept that no one has seen before, and accomplishes something that no one has experienced yet, so we'll see how well these are received after people can actually get on them.
    "If we can't bring the mountain to the party, let's bring the PARTY to the MOUNTAIN!"

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phall View Post
    Considering they had Mike Giese and other people who are faster than 90% of the population testing these forks on bikes such as hightowers, switchblades, Evil Followings, etc, Its a safe bet that it is going to do everything the layperson is going to need it to.
    That's kind of a cop out. I mean, an SR Suntour does pretty much everything that a layperson needs it to, and there are plenty of great riders sending it on SR Suntour products. That doesn't make it a good fork though, and it doesn't mean I'd pay $2700 for one.

    This isn't the first high end piece of componentry that's been billed as a wonder product that does everything well and is great for a huge variety of applications. And maybe it is, but for literally every other wonder product that's taken that marketing approach, a bit of time reveals that no, it's actually not great for a wide variety of things. It's good in a fairly particular application.

    My prediction: The fork rides great on bikes built around 140-ish mm travel forks. It's too tall and too heavy to go on shorter travel rigs. It's too short to work on longer travel rigs, and if you're getting into the 150 mm segment, people are going to expect a more tunable damper than just a 3 position low speed compression and rebound knob. Especially for the price. For those reasons, coupled with the price tag, the product fizzles until the inevitable damper issues are sorted out and a longer travel, more adjustable version is released with a substantial price drop. Regardless, Trust fails to break the seal on the acceptableness of linkage forks in the market, and they remain a rarity mostly used by Germans who wear sandals with socks.

  12. #37
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    Yup, different and non-linear. I demoed a German Answer Kilo:
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    And expecting to hate it, I liked it a lot. Part of the like was the non-linear way it worked, very supple. Still their thing reminds me of a Lauf:
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    Which I haven't demoed, but apparently sucks at vibration damping and is weak on small bumps.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phall View Post
    hope I can ride one in the near future.
    That's where I land. It's intriguing if nothing else. They're not changing any standards, nor forcing anything. Way too rich for my blood, but if it truly is a better option and catches on, we'll see varying travel, more adjustability and lower prices. If it's not, or it doesn't catch on cause of looks or whatever, no harm (except to their investors).
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  14. #39
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    My prediction is more travel at less weight than any XC racing fork. Itís a niche play at a niche market, and probably is better. At that price, the only people buying it are middle aged spandex trying to remember glory days, or maintain their current status on the local series. While I am only personally aquatinted with one of them, I donít think any of them ever put out a sub par product.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada1 View Post
    While I am only personally aquatinted with one of them, I don’t think any of them ever put out a sub par product.
    [cough] Every frame Evil produced for a couple of years [cough]

  16. #41
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    "Our mission is to help riders get the most out of the moments that make life awesome,"

    Apparently Hallmark is consulting on their comm strategy.
    "Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. The winds will blow their freshness into you, and the storms, their energy. Your cares and tensions will drop away like the leaves of Autumn." --John Muir

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  17. #42
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    Trust Me...

    At that price , Iíll never own one or even get a chance to ride one. I do like the kinematic theory . I also like the look with the flowing carbon shapes and proportion. It looks sturdy and fast. Interested to hear how the spring and dampening is going to perform. A lot of ifs and a bold move for them and looks like Iím in the minority but I think I like it

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    They should focus their efforts on making a sub-40 lb, long travel, 2.8Ē tire, gearbox, ebike. That would change the world.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Why would it change the world?

    I ride a180 mm travel (front and rear) e bike, 53 lbs, and i don't see the eight as being an issue at all.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using TGR Forums mobile app

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Why would it change the world?

    I ride a180 mm travel (front and rear) e bike, 53 lbs, and i don't see the eight as being an issue at all.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using TGR Forums mobile app
    I meant i don't see the weight as being an issue at all. But my phone thought that i was wrong.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using TGR Forums mobile app

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    [cough] Every frame Evil produced for a couple of years [cough]
    And that is the bike one publication recently rated the best bike available. So, perspectives differ

  21. #46
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    This marketing pitch reminds me of:

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    That being said I think this fork is a good thing. If rich dudes with the time and money want to try and revolutionize things we all stand to benefit - or at the very least we won't lose out on anything (except for when standards change across the board - then we lose out - but that's not gonna happen here)

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada1 View Post
    And that is the bike one publication recently rated the best bike available. So, perspectives differ
    Oh, the current crop is great. I'm referring to the first one or two production runs where literally every single frame cracked. And where warranty support was decidedly lacking. So yes, people involved in this project have, in fact, put out sub par products in the past.

  23. #48
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    I havenít consumed all the marketing on this yet but I fail to understand how more pivots is awesomer. Every bike Iíve owned from Reign, Demo, Gambler, Sanction, Stumpjumper has inevitably gone to creaky hell in a matter of months.

    Love how steeezygizzy is the main endorsement for this fork riding SLC dirt highway.

    I canít inagine anything being better than my basicbitchblack 36. But I guess Iíll have to try.
    now a complete tool

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada1 View Post
    And that is the bike one publication recently rated the best bike available. So, perspectives differ
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Oh, the current crop is great. I'm referring to the first one or two production runs where literally every single frame cracked. And where warranty support was decidedly lacking. So yes, people involved in this project have, in fact, put out sub par products in the past.
    Was DW actually involved in production at Evil for those frames? Or were they just licensing his design?
    That Delta suspension platform is legit, it was the manufacturing execution of those first batch frames that was botched.


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