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  1. #1
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    Condo Real Estate Question

    A few years ago Mrs. Dude & I bought a small condo in West Vail. It's in a small, 10 unit building that has been around since the late '60s. A lot of work has been done to various units over the years, mostly work done without permits. When we bought, we had some work done, all with permits so that we'd be doing it legal.

    Recently, a unit attached to ours has gone up for sale. While looking at their pictures, it is evident that they've done quite a bit of work as well, most likely without a permit as they have a stacked washer/dryer without a pan and without a drain under the unit. So, in theory, if the machine were to ever have a significant leak, our unit would surely suffer damage. And since we aren't there much except for weekends/holidays, quite a bit of damage could take place before being noticed.

    So my question is, how should we proceed? My immediate reaction was to call the town and report it, but that could put other units at risk of exposure. Hopefully an inspector would see that it is not to code and record it, but some inspectors are idiots. It has also been discussed that our bylaws should be updated so that new owners are held accountable for work done not to code by previous owners. Right now we don't have that language in the bylaws and it seems that it would make the most sense.

    Thoughts please?
    ....and michigan still sucks

  2. #2
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    I'd start by updating my insurance policy in order to be certain that my place was insured for an amount consistent with the rising prices that we've seen.
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  3. #3
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    I should have mentioned that we recently updated our policies so that we have coverage above what is needed. The past summer fire season scared us quite a bit as 2 of our other properties were at a significant risk.
    ....and michigan still sucks

  4. #4
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    on the banks of Fish Creek
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    Sell now..... profit.

  5. #5
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    Bring it up at the next condo meeting. And the next, and the next. Start documenting everything. Save the pictures of the other condo before they are taken down. Save the whole website if you can and print it out.
    Find a good RE lawyer who is local.
    Even if you can't force a repair that would make your unit safer, you will have all of this documentation for a lawsuit if shit happens.

  6. #6
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    Have you considered talking to them.

  7. #7
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    I have considered talking to them directly, however before doing so I've been doing due diligence to make sure all options are explored as well as ramifications of my/our actions.
    ....and michigan still sucks

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Have you considered talking to them.
    Great place to start is a friendly conversation. "I saw your place is for sale and looked at the pictures on line. You have a beautiful unit and it should sell quickly. The washer doesn't look like it has a pan and I thought it was a requirement..."

    I am not a lawyer or RE person, but I am still enrolled in the college of hard knocks. What is the demarcation of what you own and common space in your complex? For example some units you own to the drywall and the studs, void, sheathing and exterior finish, in this case if there is a leak the condo HOA would have a reserve and insurance to cover your repairs. Finding out where the demarcation is key in these situations. Also what type of insurance coverage does you HOA have and what is the deductable?

  9. #9
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    All of this depends on your state's laws regarding condos, and your bylaws, Study them, and consult with a good lawyer who knows Colorado condo issues. But first, bring this up with the board, or, at least the president of the board, and do not be informal about it. OK, sure, be civil and friendly, but make it known that you have started a process, and are documenting everything. Just having a friendly conversation with the neighbor will not hold up to well if things wind up in court.

    Again, there's probably not much you can do to force the repair, but, you can sue for damages afterwards much easier if you follow a well documented path from now on.

    Are you an absentee owner? The neighbor absent? The president of the board? That complicates things.

  10. #10
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    Benny is such an ass.

    Tell the neighbor in an email that you are worried about your own property AND that it is an adverse material fact they should disclose.

  11. #11
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    Procure 1 gallon of kaopectate, grind up 2 bags of doritos (not any spicy ones, just the usual) .

    Don a tutu and slather yourself with the kaopectate, then encrust yourself with the dort crumbs.

    Mix up a pitcher of martinis, grab the appropriate glasses, and slip on a convenient pair of swimfins and head over for a chat.

    Politely explain your concerns, reassuring them that you understand where they're coming from and are confident that they will understand your position and the responsibility all members of the condo association have for each other.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    OK, sure, be civil and friendly, but make it known that you have started a process, and are documenting everything. Just having a friendly conversation with the neighbor will not hold up to well if things wind up in court.

    Again, there's probably not much you can do to force the repair, but, you can sue for damages afterwards much easier if you follow a well documented path from now on.
    You can always go the litigation route, but what is the end game spending money on attorney's fees or getting the washer installation to meet code? Assume good intent that the owner likely doesn't know about the code violation and will be code compliant versus during the condo inspection slowing down the sale. Document the conversation in an e-mail if you don't get traction, then escalate to the condo board president and attorney as the nuclear option.

    Understanding state laws on condos and condo bylaws is tedious but worth it.

  13. #13
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    A pan under a leaking washing machine ain't gonna contain all the water that comes out of it in a full failure. In less than a full failure the amount of water that the pan could contain probably isn't enough to make its way into your place. And they really don't fail very often. And you're properly insured.

    While it's certainly a good idea to have the pan, and may (or may not) be a legal requirement of some kind this is more of a molehill than a mountain. Have a friendly chat with the neighbors or new owners then go use your mental energy on something more necessary and fulfilling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  14. #14
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    Pray their washer hose brakes and pays for your next remodel and don’t do anything until it does.

    There’s no way your bringing everything up to current code in a 60’s complex.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Benny is such an ass.

    Tell the neighbor in an email that you are worried about your own property AND that it is an adverse material fact they should disclose.
    Thanks, asshole.

    But, right, paper trail. Always email. Amazing how that makes people jump.

    Listen, I've been involved more than I like on my board, and I'm not surprised at the complex nature of these interactions when they happen, and they happen a lot. I could tell you a story of a recent eviction and a seemingly nice owner, but I won't. Sure, a few words could work, but, I'm just saying, if it ever gets to the point when you're staring at your fucked up ceiling (which actually happened to me last winter, and I almost got scammed) thinking, I thought they fixed that shit, you have something to bargain with, instead of he said/ I said. That's all. They're always taking notes at my board meetings. You should too.

  16. #16
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    Jan 2008
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    Buy his condo, build a McCondo, fix the washer problem . . . win

    Seriously thought, good luck!

  17. #17
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    I know people in vail, I know how it works
    deal with hoa's all the time, deal with bullshit all the time, deal with assholes from hoa's all the time, just had to tell a property manager I don't care what his rules are and what he thinks and we got started gutting a place, he told me we didn't have permision to do anything, I told him I don't care and asked him he or the board have ever been sued

    people from hoa's like to throw around all kinds of I'm tough, we have rules shit, I always laugh since I'm an expert on hoa's and 75% of the bs these people sling is nothing but bs

    at the end of the day, no one gives a fuck, especially the building dept

    if the job was being done right now with no permit you can go after them that is the only time, completed work, darn no dice
    as an hoa you can make the homeowner install a drain or remove the washer and dryer, yes you can

    you have to look at cc & r's or re write them asap which sucks donkey balls
    you may be able to have the board make a rules adjustment which is much easier

    I worked my way through a complex that was managed by a bunch of fuck tards
    lots of work was done with no permits, so the hoa made them tear out all the plumbing and electric
    imagine seeing a bathroom with plumbing stub outs capped, and all the wires cut way back in the box
    pretty fucking funny

    when the property is sold the title company will contact the managment company of the hoa, you need to have a letter already drawn up and present it to the title company when they do their check, the letter says that an illegal/ non code compliant washer and dryer was installed and that it doesn't conform to the hoa rules and regulations and needs to be removed for the sale to go through

    this is all legit, I do it on a regular basis with my hoa to crack down on shitty owners of shitty units. It works like a charm.

    this isn't a building dept problem, it's an hoa problem

  18. #18
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    Benny you gotta get to Florida. Yeah the biking's not awesome but on the bright side, when you get to the point wheres somebody's bugging you, they die.

  19. #19
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    My general understanding is that if their stuff causes water damage to your condo, repair comes out of their pocket, whether you pre-warn them or not, and whether they're up to code or not. You might gently point that out to them, and why not document that as well. When we had a condo in Marin, the lady upstairs shelled out a pretty good lump of cash for problems that were probably due to her bad shower/bath caulking; we brought in the condo management who looked up through the hole cut out of our moist ceiling and said "it's definitely not the building plumbing", and that put everything else in motion, on the upstairs lady's dime.

  20. #20
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    Mar 2005
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    Lighten up Francis

    You have insurance. That will repair your unit. Hell, your unit gets a free upgrade in carpet, paint etc if the washer blows.
    Your insurance co may or may not subrogate against the other insurance. Either way, who cares.

    Ps. Most washers don’t have pans.
    Water heaters, yes.

    No code requirements that I know of for washing machine
    . . .

  21. #21
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    Exactly, lighten up. On the second day I owned my current place, the dishwasher upstairs leaked. Brand new, she just remodeled and her plumber fucked up. No permit, not that it would have mattered.

    I cut a hole, let it dry out, patched it, painted it, and she sent me a check for my trouble.

    Sent from my VS996 using TGR Forums mobile app

  22. #22
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    Since you are a OSU fan, I advise that you take Benny's advice and send the owner a threatening email. Paper trail and all.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredgnar View Post
    Since you are a OSU fan, I advise that you take Benny's advice and send the owner a threatening email. Paper trail and all.
    Hail to the victors valiant
    Hail to the conquering heroes
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    Hail to Michigan, the leaders and best
    . . .

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Bring it up at the next condo meeting. And the next, and the next. Start documenting everything. Save the pictures of the other condo before they are taken down. Save the whole website if you can and print it out.
    Find a good RE lawyer who is local.
    Even if you can't force a repair that would make your unit safer, you will have all of this documentation for a lawsuit if shit happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talisman View Post
    Great place to start is a friendly conversation. "I saw your place is for sale and looked at the pictures on line. You have a beautiful unit and it should sell quickly. The washer doesn't look like it has a pan and I thought it was a requirement..."

    ......
    you HOA have and what is the deductable?
    I'm be somewhere between these two.

    As any attorney will tell you, when it comes to condos it's all about what is written between four corners of the papers, i.e., applicable state laws and HOA rules you agreed to when you bought ... even if the board is not enforcing said rules.
    “The best argument in favour of a 90% tax rate on the rich is a five-minute chat with the average rich person.”

    - Winston Churchill, paraphrased.

  25. #25
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    Jan 2015
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    Oh yeah, another one in the same condo building: Old codger (and jolly drinker type) decided to catch a few winks while drawing his bath, and evidently the tub's overflow drain wasn't working properly. Oops! The guy in the condo below came home to "still no sign of land, how long is it"; pretty bad, all new carpeting and plenty of ceiling and wall work, probably other stuff, and there was never any question that Mr. Sleepyhead was responsible.

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