Modifying WTR sole to Grip-Walk?

**Lord Thomas** · 10-12-2018, 12:49 PM

Just wondering if an Atomic XTD sole (Walk-to-Ride) can be modified to meet the Grip-Walk standard without too much trouble? At demo days last year one of the vendors mentioned that all it took was a little bit of grinding at the toe. I'm simply too lazy to try to fully understand the differences between each of these standards and how I might be able to modify my WTR soles, if it is in fact possible. All I can say for certain is that this whole dueling standard thing for the last few years has been a pain in the ass.

**gregL** · 10-12-2018, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

. . . At demo days last year one of the vendors mentioned that all it took was a little bit of grinding at the toe . . .

No responsible vendor I know of would say that.

WTR and GripWalk are not standards in the same way that ISO 5355 and ISO 9523 are (with a downloadable file you can buy from ISO). Both generally adhere to the basic sole shape and dimensions of ISO 9523 but have smooth AFD patches at the toe. The GripWalk AFD pad is recessed a bit so that in theory you can use it with many bindings in the "alpine" setting (see Look WTR/Dual and AW models for an example). Binding techs are going to look at the logo printed on the sole to determine if your boot is compatible with a particular binding, not take your word that you've ground it to "GripWalk" spec.

**XavierD** · 10-12-2018, 11:01 PM

Seems like a dumb idea to me.

As gregL said, grip walk and WTR both fall within the 9523 standard. While some bindings are Alpine or Gripwalk compatible (new look P12/14, Tyrolias, shit marker systems) most GW compatible bindings are also WTR compatible (Marker SoleID, Look Dual, Tyrolia AT, Salomon MNC).

Sure WTR is dying but it’s only mostly dead at this point. In a couple years when WTR is completely dead, your boots should be replaced anyway.

**gregL** · 10-13-2018, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by XavierD

. . . most GW compatible bindings are also WTR compatible (Marker SoleID, Look Dual, Tyrolia AT, Salomon MNC) . . .

Exception is Salomon/Atomic WTR bindings (STH2 13 and 16) which are indemnified for WTR and ISO 5355 but not GripWalk . . .

**gregL** · 10-13-2018, 09:23 AM

If your intention is to go to demos and be able to use any binding, it makes sense to have another pair of boots with tech fittings and an available ISO 5355 sole - that includes Lange XT Freetour/Free, Tecnica Cochise/Zero G (first gen, not the new one), K2 Pinnacle, Full Tilt Ascendant and Dalbello Lupo.

**rod9301** · 10-13-2018, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by gregL

If your intention is to go to demos and be able to use any binding, it makes sense to have another pair of boots with tech fittings and an available ISO 5355 sole - that includes Lange XT Freetour/Free, Tecnica Cochise/Zero G (first gen, not the new one), K2 Pinnacle, Full Tilt Ascendant and Dalbello Lupo.

If all you need is go to demos, you're all set.

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**rob stokes** · 10-13-2018, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by gregL

Exception is Salomon/Atomic WTR bindings (STH2 13 and 16) which are indemnified for WTR and ISO 5355 but not GripWalk . . .

My gripwalk lupo’s fit STH2 perfectly, they fit standard STH/9xx ‘ok’.

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**BCJC** · 10-13-2018, 10:03 AM

So if a guy had WTR soled boots, and wanted to invest in a safe bet binding that would accommodate the current WTR boots, but of course the "next" pair of boots also, what would he look for?

ETA Hawx XTD in my near future...

**Lord Thomas** · 10-13-2018, 10:33 AM

Greg,

You're right, no responsible tech would say that. However, even at the WWSRA demos it's shocking to see how many bindings are not adjusted correctly (e.g. drastically different DIN settings from one ski to the next, forward pressure way off, no heel gap with tech binders that require it.....) Between my wife and I we experienced all of these at last years show at Mission. It was apparent that many of the techs didn't understand which of the different norms were compatible with which bindings...Not that we want to try to put an inappropriate boot into a binding just to keep from changing boots.

My question stems from the fact that I would like to get my wife into a of XTD's but don't want to wait until next year when they change to from WTR to GW. Makes it a real pain when you have to change from tech compatible boots to alpine boots in order to try different boards, and necessarily at demos. We do a lot of trading back and fourth locally.

**gregL** · 10-13-2018, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by rob stokes

My gripwalk lupo’s fit STH2 perfectly, they fit standard STH/9xx ‘ok’.

Yes, they seem to fit fine, but Amer Sports will not indemnify the STH2/GripWalk combination.

**gregL** · 10-13-2018, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by BCJC

So if a guy had WTR soled boots, and wanted to invest in a safe bet binding that would accommodate the current WTR boots, but of course the "next" pair of boots also, what would he look for?

ETA Hawx XTD in my near future...

It is case by case.

For instance, with the WTR sole, the Hawx Ultra XTD works with any Amer Sport MNC (Shift, Warden 13 or 2019 and later Warden 11) binding or WTR (STH2 13 and 16) binding. If they switch to GripWalk soles next season, they will not be compatible with the STH2 bindings unless Amer changes their guidelines. Marker SoleID bindings (Squire, Griffon, Jester and 2019 Jester Pro) are supposed to work with any sole including WTR, but there is a documented problem with the Hawx Ultra XTD. Tyrolia Attack 14 AT bindings work with any sole AFAIK. Look/Rossignol bindings labeled WTR/Dual or AW (Alpine Walk) will work with the current WTR soled Hawx Ultra XTD and with GripWalk soles.

If this sounds like a shitshow, I am only the messenger.

**gregL** · 10-13-2018, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

My question stems from the fact that I would like to get my wife into a of XTD's but don't want to wait until next year when they change to from WTR to GW. Makes it a real pain when you have to change from tech compatible boots to alpine boots in order to try different boards, and necessarily at demos. We do a lot of trading back and fourth locally.

Unfortunately the pain is a reality. I spent most of last season skiing in the Hawx Ultra XTD, but had a pair of Tecnica Zero G Guide Pros with ISO 5355 alpine soles for "demo" purposes. I've used the Lange XT Freetour 130 and the K2 Pinnacle 130 for the same job in other years. This approach seems more efficient than bringing a pure alpine boot and stashing a tech boot in one of the rep's trucks for two days.

**BCJC** · 10-15-2018, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by gregL

It is case by case.

For instance, with the WTR sole, the Hawx Ultra XTD works with any Amer Sport MNC (Shift, Warden 13 or 2019 and later Warden 11) binding or WTR (STH2 13 and 16) binding. If they switch to GripWalk soles next season, they will not be compatible with the STH2 bindings unless Amer changes their guidelines. Marker SoleID bindings (Squire, Griffon, Jester and 2019 Jester Pro) are supposed to work with any sole including WTR, but there is a documented problem with the Hawx Ultra XTD. Tyrolia Attack 14 AT bindings work with any sole AFAIK. Look/Rossignol bindings labeled WTR/Dual or AW (Alpine Walk) will work with the current WTR soled Hawx Ultra XTD and with GripWalk soles.

If this sounds like a shitshow, I am only the messenger.

Sheesh, what a mess.

Appreciate the reply though.

Can anyone comment about getting safe release from a WTR (Hawx) boot in an STH14 driver toe?

**splat** · 10-15-2018, 10:22 PM

Greg, who does the stainless steel afd?

**Lord Thomas** · 10-16-2018, 10:12 AM

So the Look dual will work? Or does it have to have the "WTR/dual" designation? Just looked at my proform and they only show the "dual" designation. If the dual will work for essentially all soles then that's temendous news as I was thinking of standardizing both of us on these for alpine setups.

**westoxified** · 10-16-2018, 11:57 AM

STH2 is now certified for WTR and GW according to the new Amer poster.

**gregL** · 10-16-2018, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by westoxified

STH2 is now certified for WTR and GW according to the new Amer poster.

Sweet, one less thing to worry about. Now I have to update our compatibility chart! (This is not the chart they had in the 2018-19 Tech Manual when I took the binding cert test a month ago).

**gregL** · 10-16-2018, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

So the Look dual will work? Or does it have to have the "WTR/dual" designation? Just looked at my proform and they only show the "dual" designation. If the dual will work for essentially all soles then that's temendous news as I was thinking of standardizing both of us on these for alpine setups.

Dual works for ISO 5355, WTR and GripWalk but not ISO 9523 Touring. Pivots for 2019 are labeled "AW" instead of WTR/Dual.

**waxoff** · 10-16-2018, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by westoxified

STH2 is now certified for WTR and GW according to the new Amer poster.

Is the Sth2 changed in anyway for 18/19 or is the certification valid for previous years' WTR clamps as well?

**galibier_numero_un** · 10-17-2018, 01:23 AM

Evo shows both the 13 and 16 as being WTR compatible for 2019.

... Thom

**gregL** · 10-17-2018, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by SoooL

Is the Sth2 changed in anyway for 18/19 or is the certification valid for previous years' WTR clamps as well?

The STH2 didn't change; GripWalk's status in the eyes of the Amer Sports legal department did. Look/Rossignol did a similar "about face" last season.

**gregL** · 10-17-2018, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Evo shows both the 13 and 16 as being WTR compatible for 2019.

... Thom

The STH2 13 and 16 were always WTR compatible, they just became GripWalk compatible with the latest version of the chart.

I can't read all the fine print on the chart, but looks like there is still the issue of boots with QuickStep tech toe inserts (Vulcan/Mercury, Maestrale/Gea/RS, Freedom/Freedom SL) not being compatible with MNC bindings (Warden 11, Warden 13, Shift).

**waxoff** · 10-17-2018, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by gregL

The STH2 didn't change; GripWalk's status in the eyes of the Amer Sports legal department did. Look/Rossignol did a similar "about face" last season.

Good info, thanks!

**dcpnz** · 10-17-2018, 07:30 AM

Thats great news but notably different text in the box on that chart for gripwalk boots/wtr bindings. What exactly does “with adjustments” mean? New afd? If it were just normal “turn the screw” adjustments why is it only in that box?

**gregL** · 10-17-2018, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by dcpnz

Thats great news but notably different text in the box on that chart for gripwalk boots/wtr bindings. What exactly does “with adjustments” mean? New afd? If it were just normal “turn the screw” adjustments why is it only in that box?

I believe they mean you will have to adjust the toepiece height correctly, which will be lower than a WTR boot. With Look products without infinite height adjustment, that means having the screw in the "alpine" setting rather than the "WTR" setting.