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  1. #1
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    Homeless America by Chris Hedges


  2. #2
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    Brutal.

    sent from some fucking device using some fucking program.
    sigless.

  3. #3
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    difficult for me to find anything worthwhile to say about the topic. Anything I type I delete once I remember how lucky I am... for now

  4. #4
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    It sucks. I see the few homeless people where I live quite a bit because they get around on the transit system. The concern here is that if services are too good, or basically, you know...adequate, that people will migrate here and weíll be overwhelmed. Itís a valid concern, weíve seen people show up immediately looking for the meal and housing circuit because they heard it was good here.
    So we could do better, but we donít because we donít want to become a regional mecca for drifters. I suspect a lot of places are facing this at once and the only thing lacking is just some coordination so things improve everywhereís at once and there isnít some big influx to any one place.

    I take these folks out to dinner every once in awhile, mixed feelings...I canít really help the real problems...the schizophrenia, the addiction, the personality disorders. I donít know. It sucks.

    The other week driving the free bus to the free dinner...
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    The other week driving the free bus to the free dinner...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That big guy looks crazy, watch out man.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    That big guy looks crazy, watch out man.
    Heh. Good on ya, J.


    "If we offer to help people, people will seek help. Therefore, we cannot offer to help people."

    Perfectly encapsulates everything that's wrong with America.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Heh. Good on ya, J.


    "If we offer to help people, people will seek help. Therefore, we cannot offer to help people."

    Perfectly encapsulates everything that's wrong with America.
    Agreed, but I also see the problem here for local jurisdictions. This is a problem that calls for more help at the state and federal levels.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    Agreed, but I also see the problem here for local jurisdictions. This is a problem that calls for more help at the state and federal levels.
    Agreed. It doesn't help that that attitude seems to only gets worse at those levels.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Agreed. It doesn't help that that attitude seems to only gets worse at those levels.
    But what about the American Dream and picking yourself up by your bootstraps? Surely if you can't manage that, regardless of your lot in life, you don't deserve to live. Welcome to Dickensian America.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Agreed. It doesn't help that that attitude seems to only gets worse at those levels.
    Yep. It's actually a pretty solvable problem at the federal level. I saw some estimates suggesting that just renting every hobo an apartment for the year might be a 1 or 2 billion dollar expenditure. That's actually pretty affordable compared to most items in the federal budget. It'd be pretty doable if our country gave a shit.

  11. #11
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    When I lived in Seattle I always bought the "Spare Change" paper. Didn't necessarily read it but I always bought it, sometimes multiple copies from different people.

    I am continually amazed that we have the number of homeless we do in W2. Sure summer is nice but the other three seasons, winter in particular, are not too fun. We have a homeless sleep center with conestoga-style huts for sleeping but they must be vacated during the day including belongings (though there are lockers available) and if the temps drop down below 20 they shut it down all together because there is no heat. During those times they open temporary sleep centers in churches and other community buildings but it's tough. You need security and round-the-clock volunteers.

    The sleep center only accommodates 40-50 people and when it's full the city suspends the no-camping ordinance in the city.


    These are the huts:





    City wins statewide award for homelessness work

  12. #12
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    Shit, those look pretty swanky^^^^
    I was talking to an old bird from Alberta once who told me as a child, her and her 2 siblings slept in the lean to tent on the side of the parents one room house on the prairies of Alberta. It get -20 degrees below all the time there and they had no heat.
    At the time I was appalled by her story, but people were use to living in shit conditions just 80 years ago in North America. By comparison, we are softer than shit nowadays.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    Yep. It's actually a pretty solvable problem at the federal level. I saw some estimates suggesting that just renting every hobo an apartment for the year might be a 1 or 2 billion dollar expenditure. That's actually pretty affordable compared to most items in the federal budget. It'd be pretty doable if our country gave a shit.
    Yeah, that's nothing on the federal level. Plus there's huge cost savings to be reaped by reducing their use of police/EMS/ER resources, increased likelihood that they'll end up getting jobs, etc.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    Shit, those look pretty swanky^^^^
    I was talking to an old bird from Alberta once who told me as a child, her and her 2 siblings slept in the lean to tent on the side of the parents one room house on the prairies of Alberta. It get -20 degrees below all the time there and they had no heat.
    At the time I was appalled by her story, but people were use to living in shit conditions just 80 years ago in North America. By comparison, we are softer than shit nowadays.
    I have Dutch friends who have similar stories and my Grandmother homesteaded Montana with her parents/siblings at the turn of the 20th century. Yes they had a roof over their head and a stove to heat the house but it was northern Montana (Hi-line) almost to Alberta and things get pretty darn cold there yet they survived.






    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Yeah, that's nothing on the federal level. Plus there's huge cost savings to be reaped by reducing their use of police/EMS/ER resources, increased likelihood that they'll end up getting jobs, etc.
    There's a whole lot of mental health issues going on with a large majority of the homeless. By and large they are not people like you and me who simply find themselves without a roof over their head due to some unforeseen circumstance. Shelter is one part of the equation but it does not fix everything and what is left over to "fix" is the bigger stumbling block to helping the homeless become productive members of society again. For some the problem will never be solved no matter how hard we try to help.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    There's a whole lot of mental health issues going on with a large majority of the homeless. By and large they are not people like you and me who simply find themselves without a roof over their head due to some unforeseen circumstance. Shelter is one part of the equation but it does not fix everything and what is left over to "fix" is the bigger stumbling block to helping the homeless become productive members of society again. For some the problem will never be solved no matter how hard we try to help.
    That's true to a certain extent. Writing the check for housing from the federal budget won't solve mental health problems by itself for many. But it doesn't have to for the fiscal and humanitarian positives to be large. Say it only breaks the cycle and gets 25 percent of those folks reintegrated into society? What if only 5 percent of those folks are kids who we get back into school? The returns to having those kids better cared-for probably justifies the expense on its own.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    I have Dutch friends who have similar stories and my Grandmother homesteaded Montana with her parents/siblings at the turn of the 20th century. Yes they had a roof over their head and a stove to heat the house but it was northern Montana almost to Alberta and things get pretty darn cold there yet they survived.


    There's a whole lot of mental health issues going on with a large majority of the homeless. By and large they are not people like you and me who simply find themselves without a roof over their head due to some unforeseen circumstance. Shelter is one part of the equation but it does not fix everything and what is left over to "fix" is the bigger stumbling block to helping the homeless become productive members of society again. For some the problem will never be solved no matter how hard we try to help.


    A casual stroll up 4th Ave Anchorage reveals many many cases of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

    Some of these people may have been born addicted to ethanol.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    Yep. It's actually a pretty solvable problem at the federal level. I saw some estimates suggesting that just renting every hobo an apartment for the year might be a 1 or 2 billion dollar expenditure. That's actually pretty affordable compared to most items in the federal budget. It'd be pretty doable if our country gave a shit.
    I'm not buying that figure. There's a LOT of homeless people in this country. Also have to factor in the housing crisis that is happening right now, in many places. There's already a good amount of people who work and make decent money that are homeless, living in vehicles or couch surfing, where are we going to put all those other people? Those Seattle accommodations actually look to be a decent solution, I imagine if there was something like that in Tahoe or CA people would be racing to outbid each other. Other thing is, gov't accommodations come with rules, and a lot of people don't like those rules. It's a complex problem that will require a very complex solution, and I don't see the situation improving anytime soon.
    ďI really lack the words to compliment myself today.Ē - Alberto Tomba

  18. #18
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    Any meaningful discussion re homelessness in America starts requires discussion of Ronnie Reagan's termination of federal aid to mental health facilities. 1,000 points of light aint cutting it.

  19. #19
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    When I see a homeless person I say to my self that person might have been a doctor or a lawyer once, paid a ton into the system, but mental illness took over.

    Fuck people who think those people suck off the system, or think itís the families problem, some people have none.




    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    But what about the American Dream and picking yourself up by your bootstraps? Surely if you can't manage that, regardless of your lot in life, you don't deserve to live. Welcome to Dickensian America.
    Just in case I missed a post. Most ignorant post i have seen here. Extermination camps are so 1940. Wife volunteers at the library where the hang out. Sees a middle aged homeless guy and asks how he is doing. "I hurt my back and lost my job. Couldn't make the rent and got evicted. My wife and kids have been living in our car and I don't know what I'm going to do ". My wife told him "I hope things get better for you". He left and then came back in. He said to my wife "Thanks, it's nice to know someone cares." What a wonderful woman I married. Good luck to you in your quest to find a woman. Hope you find a good one. My advice Don't fish in the gutter if you want to catch a rainbow trout.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    That's true to a certain extent. Writing the check for housing from the federal budget won't solve mental health problems by itself for many. But it doesn't have to for the fiscal and humanitarian positives to be large. Say it only breaks the cycle and gets 25 percent of those folks reintegrated into society? What if only 5 percent of those folks are kids who we get back into school? The returns to having those kids better cared-for probably justifies the expense on its own.
    Even if the reintegration rate is 0% we're still better off having these people living in an apartment vs. on the street.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmm...pow! View Post
    I'm not buying that figure. There's a LOT of homeless people in this country.
    Yeah, it looks to be low. Google says the homeless population is about 1.5 million. If we give every single one of them their own apartment at $1000/month (both generous assumptions) that's about $20B/yr. A lot of money, but still pretty low compared to the federal budget and not having them on the street saves money in other ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmm...pow! View Post
    Also have to factor in the housing crisis that is happening right now, in many places. There's already a good amount of people who work and make decent money that are homeless, living in vehicles or couch surfing, where are we going to put all those other people? Those Seattle accommodations actually look to be a decent solution, I imagine if there was something like that in Tahoe or CA people would be racing to outbid each other. Other thing is, gov't accommodations come with rules, and a lot of people don't like those rules. It's a complex problem that will require a very complex solution, and I don't see the situation improving anytime soon.
    Well, we have to start somewhere. Journey of a thousand miles and all that.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    That's true to a certain extent. Writing the check for housing from the federal budget won't solve mental health problems by itself for many. But it doesn't have to for the fiscal and humanitarian positives to be large. Say it only breaks the cycle and gets 25 percent of those folks reintegrated into society? What if only 5 percent of those folks are kids who we get back into school? The returns to having those kids better cared-for probably justifies the expense on its own.
    Yes, IMO children and education should be a society's main focus no matter what.

    Invest in schools, child safety net programs, sports programs, after school programs, meal programs, MENTOR PROGRAMS. Help the children to help break the cycle. Illiteracy affects all areas of life and often leads to poverty. That said, education in a classroom is only one part of the equation. The homes (or lack thereof) these children are raised in also provides (or doesn't) education on how to get through life so to that end we need to support the adults too in raising their education levels.

    Even in the United States, with its considerable resources, there are 36 million adults who can’t read better than the average third-grader, according to the international nonprofit ProLiteracy. In Detroit, Michigan, a widely cited 2003 survey conducted by the National Institute for Literacy found that almost half of residents over age 16 were functionally illiterate -- unable to use reading, speaking, writing, and computer skills in everyday life.

    Illiteracy traps adults, and their families, in poverty

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Even if the reintegration rate is 0% we're still better off having these people living in an apartment vs. on the street.



    Yeah, it looks to be low. Google says the homeless population is about 1.5 million. If we give every single one of them their own apartment at $1000/month (both generous assumptions) that's about $20B/yr. A lot of money, but still pretty low compared to the federal budget and not having them on the street saves money in other ways.



    Well, we have to start somewhere. Journey of a thousand miles and all that.
    Yeah, that 1-2 billion number was remembered off the top of my head based on an estimate I read somewhere based on a number of several hundred thousand who needed housing at a somewhat lower cost per head.

    Nonetheless, even if we take 1.5 million times 1000 per month per head, as dtm suggested, that's peanuts compared to what we spend on other projects of lesser value.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    Yeah, that 1-2 billion number was remembered off the top of my head based on an estimate I read somewhere based on a number of several hundred thousand who needed housing at a somewhat lower cost per head.

    Nonetheless, even if we take 1.5 million times 1000 per month per head, as dtm suggested, that's peanuts compared to what we spend on other projects of lesser value.
    Projects like building a wall along our southern border? Or a military parade? Or paying for the family of the President to have security while skiing in Europe?

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    For perspective, we give $20B/yr to the oil/gas/coal industry in direct production subsidies alone: https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...-oil-subsidies

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