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  1. #176
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    Sep 2006
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    6,242

  2. #177
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    EWA
    Posts
    21,788
    ďWhen you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkiní Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  3. #178
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Access to Granlibakken
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    10,766
    Quote Originally Posted by east or bust View Post
    It's crazy how much anger is out there and encountered on a daily basis. I mean, when was the last time anybody has gone about their day without seeing at least 1 agro person.
    I get your point but tbh I go weeks at a time with zero encounters with aggrieved people, on the road or elsewhere.

  4. #179
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    In a van... down by the river
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    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    I get your point but tbh I go weeks at a time with zero encounters with aggrieved people, on the road or elsewhere.
    Me too.

    Though I don't get out much.


  5. #180
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    between campus and church
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    9,588
    We have 0.5 - 3% vacancy rates across a rural state like Vermont but clearly itís these deadbeats fault that they canít find housing.

    https://vtdigger.org/2023/06/07/this...19-in-vermont/

  6. #181
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    Nov 2008
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    between campus and church
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Median incomes by state:

    Mass ~$37k
    NH ~ $37k
    CT ~ $39k
    VT ~ $33k
    ME ~ $31k
    RI ~ $34k

    Two working people in a household to afford a 2 bdrm apartment across all of New England.

  7. #182
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    Aug 2013
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    shadow of HS butte
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    6,179
    My brother has lived in Williston for about 2 years now. I know COVID jacked things up, but his current rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is more than I was paying in downtown Scottsdale AZ just before the pandemic. That is fucked.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  8. #183
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    I can still smell Poutine.
    Posts
    23,011
    Quote Originally Posted by east or bust View Post
    My brother has lived in Williston for about 2 years now. I know COVID jacked things up, but his current rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is more than I was paying in downtown Scottsdale AZ just before the pandemic. That is fucked.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I grew up in Williston back when all those apartments were farm fields.

  9. #184
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Before
    Posts
    27,169
    Williston and the UND campus,

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It was a long ride that night, both literally and
    figuratively. Looking down the wrong end of a large
    handgun has had a lasting effect. Since that night,
    playing honestly, looking directly into the moment
    became a maxim and a goal.

    Mike and the old hooker, who never did tell us her
    name, dropped us off in Williston and motored off. I
    can't say if I'd ever been more relieved.

    Sticking to I-94 was part of the strategy, but figured
    we could find a place to crash somewhere at the UND
    Williston campus since we did get a decent ride.
    Little did we realize how different a world this was.

    We dragged our duffles and the skis a couple of miles
    over to the campus. To our surprise, the place was
    locked up tight. Every student we saw, when
    approached, ran off and hid, pulling curtains and
    closing doors in their wake.

    Exhausted isn't a sufficient word for the way I felt:
    hung with weight, depressed, confused and leaden.
    Exasperated, Jon and I wandered into a field near the
    dorms and collapsed. We each pulled out the blankets
    Doc had given to us and rolled up in it
    out in the field. I passed out.

    Then something woke me up. I didn't really understand
    it at the time and I was so dog tired, I just wanted
    to sleep some more, but something wasn't right. I
    listened. Nothing. I couldn't see anything unusual and
    my mind bounced back and forth between
    going back to sleep and trying to figure out what the
    matter was. I thought that maybe I had to piss or
    something, so I sat up.

    Then I fell over.

    I sat up again and again toppled over, scraping my
    face on the brush and rocks. I began to realize what
    was going on. My arms were useless, limp and numb. My
    legs were numb.

    At that moment, I knew that I had to get up or I was
    going to freeze to death. I felt warm and tired and
    just ached to lay back down and forget about it. But I
    knew if I did, I'd die.

    So I began to flop. I thrashed. I raked my face
    several times across the scrub and stones in the
    field. I flapped my arms for aeons and finally they
    came back with that wretched electric tingling. Then I
    could at least sit up
    and use my arms to steady myself while I kicked the
    blood back into my legs. That also took an eternity,
    but finally I was able to stand up and stagger over to
    where Jon lay.

    I toed Jon several times, eliciting a stream of dopey
    verbal abuse. "Get up" I said "get up, Jon, we're
    freezing to death".

    Jon sat up about to give me the what for and promptly
    fell over. The next time I saw his face, I could see
    the terror on it. I watched him thrash and buck the
    blood back into his system until he could get up.

    We didn't talk much, but with the temperatures in the
    teens, we knew we had to get inside. So dragging our
    stuff, we sluffed into the town looking for a place to
    get warm.
    __________________


    Laundromat

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It was about 4 a.m. and in this tiny town out along
    the great curves of the Northern praries, not much was
    open. We ankled blocks looking for something open or a
    motel, but nada, zip, zilch for blocks in the searing
    cold. Finally, rounding a corner o
    nto the main drag, there was an all night laundromat.
    Saved by a laundromat.

    Inside it was warm and lit with the standard blue
    phlorescent glow. Obvious signs stated: No Loitering.
    With no desire to flaunt the social norms of this
    clearly different culture, we honored the stipulation
    by tossing our clothes into dryers and sli
    ding dimes into the slots for a 10 minute spin.

    There was about an hour of pleasant nodding in the
    classic plastic molded chairs after our bodies thawed
    out. We'd dutifully ply the slots with dimes and then
    slump into protosleep, cupped in those petroleum
    product seats.

    I had just opened an eye when I caught the tail of a
    black and white cruiser pulling into the lot, obscured
    by the bank of dryers. Holding my stash in my pocket,
    I jumped up, threw the pipe and stashbox into the
    spinning dryer and slumped back into t
    he chair, feigning sleep.

    The cops walked in with nightstick outs, brandishing
    them against the enormous threat Jon and I posed. They
    yelled "up against the wall, spread your legs" and the
    pat down commenced.

    I was gripped in panic. Jon's stash was in his duffle,
    while mine seasoned the airspace with rhythmic
    ka-clunks for each spin of the dryer.

    "Whar ya frum" they barked.

    Ka-klunk...

    "Portland, Oregon" I replied.

    Ka-klunk...ka-klunk...

    "Whar ya going" their next order.

    Ka-klunk...ka-klunk...

    "Minneapolis" I said.

    Ka-klunk...ka-klunk...ka-klunk...

    They shoved us down into the chairs. I could hear the
    jail keys clanging.

    Ka-klunk...ka-klunk...

    "Whudya do?"

    Ka-klunk...ka-klunk...ka-klunk...

    Jon spoke "We're college students..." and he produced
    his i.d. I followed suit.

    Ka-klunk...ka-klunk...ka-klunk...ka-klunk...


    After some more stock questions, huddles and trips to
    radio the base from the cruiser, they decided to let
    us go. We were cautioned that we had to be out of town
    by morning.

    So with flesh reddened from frostbite, we shouldered
    our stuff and began to walk out of town.
    __________________
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  10. #185
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I can still smell Poutine.
    Posts
    23,011
    Different Williston entirely.

  11. #186
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Geopolis
    Posts
    15,352
    https://www.latimes.com/california/n...ial-california

    Researchers surveyed nearly 3,200 people experiencing homelessness across eight counties in the state, using their answers to create representative statewide estimates. They also conducted in-depth interviews with 365 of those participants.

    The study found that nearly half (47%) of all unhoused adults in the state are 50 or older, with Black and Native American residents “dramatically overrepresented.” Notably, 41% of that share became homeless for the first time at 50 or older.

    Safety net seems to be missing a few.
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  12. #187
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    7,905
    Quote Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker View Post
    https://www.latimes.com/california/n...ial-california




    Safety net seems to be missing a few.
    I just skimmed over the full report linked in that article. It appears to be very thorough and at the same time disheartening, which I suppose was to be expected. This problem will take a full societal mind-shift to fix.

  13. #188
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Was UT, AK, now MT
    Posts
    12,958
    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    This problem will take a full societal mind-shift to fix.
    Or multiple generations of non-traumatic childhoods, abuse, neglect from shit, chaotic upbringings with single parent (s), drug addicted or alcoholic parent(s), etc. '

    The
    majority (82%) reported a period in their life where
    they experienced a serious mental health condition.
    More than one quarter (27%) had been hospitalized
    for a mental health condition; 56% of these hospitalizations occurred prior to the first instance of
    homelessness. Nearly two thirds (65%) reported
    having had a period in their life in which they
    regularly used illicit drugs. Almost two thirds (62%)
    reported having had a period in their life with heavy
    drinking (defined as drinking at least three times a
    week to get drunk, or heavy intermittent drinking).
    More than half (57%) who ever had regular use of
    illicit drugs or regular heavy alcohol use had ever
    received treatment.

  14. #189
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    22,284
    We need more greedy landlords.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  15. #190
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,854
    Read a somewhat glib article yesterday about how Douglas County CO just instituted a strict permit process for camping.

    That's fine. We have a ton of homeless camping issues here too - it's a legitimate safety concern (fires, trash, unpoliced crime).

    But, what I found interesting was the some comments from the commissioner about how this was them 'getting ahead of the homeless issue'.

    To summarize it: Douglas county was going to more or less round up permitless campers and (maybe) get them to existing shelters (outside of Douglas fwiw very clearly stated they won't be building shelters).

    I guess I just can't see how this doesn't just shift the problem to neighboring communities and is an approach that could scale? To me, it just gives you the legal standing to move people out of your county and dump them in someone's county.

    The old: Step one: outlaw camping Step two: Step three: Profit!

    Maybe someone with more knowledge can elaborate and explain it? Maybe it's more nuanced than NIMBY.

    I absolutely appreciate the seriousness of illegal camping - no argument. I just can't stitch together how they were talking about this as a comprehensive action plan.

  16. #191
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlMega View Post
    <snip>
    I guess I just can't see how this doesn't just shift the problem to neighboring communities and is an approach that could scale? To me, it just gives you the legal standing to move people out of your county and dump them in someone's county.

    The old: Step one: outlaw camping Step two: Step three: Profit!

    Maybe someone with more knowledge can elaborate and explain it? Maybe it's more nuanced than NIMBY.

    I absolutely appreciate the seriousness of illegal camping - no argument. I just can't stitch together how they were talking about this as a comprehensive action plan.
    It's Douglas County - of course NIMBY is *exactly* what they are doing. You really need look no further.

  17. #192
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,800
    One county can't force another county to implement the same statutes, notably in absence of state or federal action. So they do what they can.
    Live Free or Die

  18. #193
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    I-70 West
    Posts
    4,646
    Comprehensive action plans? Those sound expensive. One way bus tickets, camping bans and the occasional sweep are on the menu.

    Our town is struggling with it too. The one group we have trying to foster change will be NIMBYed, which is troubling, but when Joe Citizen and Family are effected (ex. vandalization, library shutdown, open drug use), people run out of patience. It's very challenging.

  19. #194
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,854
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    One county can't force another county to implement the same statutes, notably in absence of state or federal action. So they do what they can.
    But back to the overall futility. Let's say in reaction to Douglas - all the other counties implement the same. So what are we in now? An arms race to see which counties can ship out homeless to the neighboring ones faster? Start in Douglas - over to Boulder - over to Denver - over to Jefferson - back to Douglas. Repeat.

    Again - maybe there's nuance absent here but it seems some coordination and communication might result in something actually productive? Negotiated terms with agencies and areas equip'd to handle influx.

    That commisioner spokesperson was taking a victory lap and proclaiming [claps hands] job done!

  20. #195
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Was UT, AK, now MT
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    12,958
    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    We need more greedy landlords.
    Are you a landlord by any chance?

  21. #196
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Was UT, AK, now MT
    Posts
    12,958
    A huge contributor, again, is upbringing. You can lower rent, give free housing, free this and that, but it won't fix generation after generation of traumatic childhoods. Look no further than your local Indian Reservation. Endless repeat generational youth rape, incest, drug/alcohol abuse, grandparents raising grandkids, endless foster car. States can pour all the money they want into fixing it after it occurs, but it won't change anything. Gotta fix it BEFORE it becomes broken. Our societal downfall is continuing, and will continue.

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  22. #197
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    11,236
    Quote Originally Posted by Trackhead View Post
    A huge contributor, again, is upbringing. You can lower rent, give free housing, free this and that, but it won't fix generation after generation of traumatic childhoods. Look no further than your local Indian Reservation. Endless repeat generational youth rape, incest, drug/alcohol abuse, grandparents raising grandkids, endless foster car. States can pour all the money they want into fixing it after it occurs, but it won't change anything. Gotta fix it BEFORE it becomes broken. Our societal downfall is continuing, and will continue.
    That's something that Mark Laita of Soft White Underbelly pointed out once. The tragic truth that without a time machine to go back and prevent childhood trauma, no amount of money is going to fix things. You just can't undo some of those deep wounds. And that guy knows the subject matter better than all of us combined. I remember him saying you can give the average homeless person a million dollars and they'll fuck it all up within a week. Even HE hasn't figured out the magic formula to fix things, despite his desperate attempts to find a solution. In the meantime, he's at least done an outstanding job humanizing the situation and letting people tell their own stories.

  23. #198
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Was UT, AK, now MT
    Posts
    12,958
    Yeah, I’ve spent the last 27 years with homeless patients in ERs all over the country. Most of them come from shit, absolute shit, upbringings.

    I’m rural healthcare now, and I’ve seen one homeless person in the past two years. No meth/heroin, very few drunks. In the past, half the ER patients at any given time were homeless in a lotta places I worked.

  24. #199
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In your Dreams
    Posts
    1,597
    I hear you saying wealth comes homelessness and agree. Stats agree. But I don't know anything about dirt poor rural places in the country outside of the
    North East. What would make Big Springs TX or Ely NV. immune to the problem? Maybe fewer people being around people just like them breeds fewer societal losers?
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  25. #200
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Was UT, AK, now MT
    Posts
    12,958
    ^^^no idea. I know there are meth heads and drunks in my tiny town of 1800 people. But we see zero homeless and almost zero in the ER with drug addiction. Maybe they all migrate to a little bigger city nearby? 35 miles away there are the typical amount of homeless in a city of about 80,000.

    No resources for them here. None. Maybe that’s part of it.

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