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  1. #101
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    Buying a new bike, bike industry has lost me

    Volume spacers = not sexy so highly underrated. You canít even show them off in the parking lot! ;-)

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio View Post
    Zactly. Had this dentist said, I want longer, lower slacker and I have money to light on fire Iíd have said go all out.

    But he said he wants a plush descending right that doesnít drag on the uphill, and guess what, a tricked out Bronson v1 CC with that build is one of the lighter climbing 150mm bikes you can build! The newer bikes with wider through axles, wider rims, big tires and longer frames are gonna be heavier than the 2015 Bronson CC with Enve wheels.

    And while there are plusher descending options like a Capra or Nomad, Iím guessing this entire thread is based around an improper CCDB tune or a busted shock.

    Also, the Pike isnít the plushest thing ever but a properly maintained and tuned 2015 Pike should still be regarded as very good but missing ďxĒ ... not, ďnot plush.Ē
    Popping the new Debonair air shaft setup in that Pike (go for the 160mm...) will make a huge difference in that fork. Also, only runs about $40 or so.
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  3. #103
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    Sep 2017
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    622
    Quote Originally Posted by sethschmautz View Post
    You seem pretty confident. Do you have one?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    I have science. As far as I can tell, its just a lower volume air can. If I'm missing something, please let me know!

  4. #104
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    Sep 2017
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    622
    Quote Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio View Post
    Zactly. Had this dentist said, I want longer, lower slacker and I have money to light on fire I’d have said go all out.

    But he said he wants a plush descending right that doesn’t drag on the uphill, and guess what, a tricked out Bronson v1 CC with that build is one of the lighter climbing 150mm bikes you can build! The newer bikes with wider through axles, wider rims, big tires and longer frames are gonna be heavier than the 2015 Bronson CC with Enve wheels.

    And while there are plusher descending options like a Capra or Nomad, I’m guessing this entire thread is based around an improper CCDB tune or a busted shock.

    Also, the Pike isn’t the plushest thing ever but a properly maintained and tuned 2015 Pike should still be regarded as very good but missing “x” ... not, “not plush.”
    No kidding. Pikes are absolutely incredible forks.

    What are OP's tires and what rim width? How has no one touched on that?

  5. #105
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    Mar 2007
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    Eugenio Oregůn
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    7,025
    ^ just seems like we aren't there yet with tires - though that might help with the "not dragging on the up" part of the equation.

    1. OP is currently having shock serviced, fork overhauled, and needle bearing kit installed. (BTW ask the shop, they may have a RockShox DU bushing tool they feel okay with for removing existing DU bushing and installing new needle bearing)
    2. OP will need to tune and tweak the shock and fork pressures + settings to see if he can get them feeling plush downhill and lively/not dragging on the up ... if he can really improve the feel but is still "missing something" from the front or back, then it's on to step 3 ...
    3. Front end look at going to 160mm Debonair air spring
    4. Rear end consider at abandoning or trading CCDB for a high volume canister reservoir shock like Monarch+ RC3 (L/L tune) or Float X EVOL (or, fuck it, Push 11-6 that thing, he has cash to light on fire!!!)

    If we are in a really good place at this point, great, optimize tires, cockpit layout, angleset, cassette and chainring gearing, etc!

    If we are plush, but the bike just doesn't seem like a fit with the OP's riding style and terrain, well it's ski season and next spring you can start the demoing bikes process and try to get a good resale on the Bronson v1. The bike will probably have more resale value in spring than fall anyways ... and the Bronson 3 is already out, so the v1 resale price is already at what it's gonna be.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    449
    Needle bearing kit is awesome for improving small bump compliance. When I first installed mine, I was amazed that I could get my suspension to start moving with a single finger's pressure on my saddle. Basically it removes a ton of friction (compared to stock bushings) on your shock.

    New air spring for your Pike will get you both better small bump compliance, more travel, and like a 0.4 degree slacker HTA.

    Another option for drivetrain if you do indeed have an X01 cassette (not X1) is getting a Wolf Tooth 46t cog to replace the 42t. I put one of those on my hardtail with a 30t up front.

  7. #107
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    Sep 2009
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    Luftkappe would be a nice addition to the pike too. Similar to what a corset does for the fox rear shocks. Both fox and rockshox have incorporated that in their new products.i like my last years lyric but the ott(basically an adjustable negative spring similar to a luftkappe) in my dvo diamond gives the slight edge to the dvo over the lyric. I’d imagine this years lyric and/or pike would give it similar performance to the dvo. You end up putting more psi in the fork because the luftkappe(negative spring) makes it more supple. More psi gives the fork more support in the mid stroke too. You may or may not take out a token if you have two in there now. I see Rock Shox will have the bigger negative air spring in their rear shocks next year

  8. #108
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    Mar 2007
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    Eugenio Oregůn
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    I would love a Luftkappe on my 2015 Pike, but Iím kind of addicted to my DPA spring. Some of our uphills are like 4000í continuous climbing and we donít have too much rolling terrain, so the DPA is really useful.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  9. #109
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    Jan 2009
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    Squaw valley
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio View Post
    I would love a Luftkappe on my 2015 Pike, but Iím kind of addicted to my DPA spring. Some of our uphills are like 4000í continuous climbing and we donít have too much rolling terrain, so the DPA is really useful.
    Was this in English?

    Sent from my moto g(6) using TGR Forums mobile app

  10. #110
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    How does the dpa feel? I remember the fox talas having a reputation of having a bit of a performance hit compared to a regular fork. Keep looking at a 2step lyric and wondering if theyíve improved the system, like everything else

  11. #111
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    May 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Was this in English?

    Sent from my moto g(6) using TGR Forums mobile app
    Excuse me, sir, I speak bike nerd.

    My mama ainít raise no dummy, I dug his rap.

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    2,122
    Wow. You all must be riding at an insane level of fitness and skill to think that any of this is as important as getting in better shape and working on your skill set. Fascinating how product-driven the perception of increased performance is among the MTBing community at large. Buy your way to a better you. Carry on.

  13. #113
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    May 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    Wow. You all must be riding at an insane level of fitness and skill to think that any of this is as important as getting in better shape and working on your skill set. Fascinating how product-driven the perception of increased performance is among the MTBing community at large. Buy your way to a better you. Carry on.
    There are some changes to a bike that are extremely noticeable and improve the ride, but for the most part I agree.

  14. #114
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    you guys wana buy my 1986 Marin ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    you guys wana buy my 1986 Marin ?
    I think DVT called dibs . You take trade ins on penny farthingís

  16. #116
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    Sep 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    Wow. You all must be riding at an insane level of fitness and skill to think that any of this is as important as getting in better shape and working on your skill set. Fascinating how product-driven the perception of increased performance is among the MTBing community at large. Buy your way to a better you. Carry on.
    I don't ride anywhere as well as I did 20 years ago, but I still appreciate a bike that is dialed in and performs well. He's not asking for a pro level enduro bike setup.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    The OPís an incredible skier.

    Dial your SC in and buy an Ebike.
    I killed it on mine today and youíre going to get one eventually.

    See you opening day.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    I think DVT called dibs . You take trade ins on penny farthing’s
    well its gona be > 37 dollars eh ?

    but I would like to say that you can have fun on a > 37$ 1986 Marin BUT there are all kinds of changes in bikes that make them way more fun to ride

    you can say or tellbuddy this aint needed or that ain't needed but do you want to have a less full glass or a really full glass ? \


    there are no wrong answers

    but get the red one just incase

    I still have fun on the marin by riding it no hands to the brew pub
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  19. #119
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    May 2011
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    Regarding v1 vs. v3, here are the actual numbers. So if that 9mm difference in chainstay length (or the 1mm lower bottom bracket) is a game changer for you, it's probably just in your head. Personally, the only thing that was a noticeable difference for me was the reach (granted, my v1 head angle is 66 degrees).

    Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #120
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    Pretty substantial difference everywhere. Over an inch more reach made possible mostly with 1.5 degree steeper seat angle. Anything under 75 seat angle feels terrible climbing. Even has nicer so. 9 mm isnít a bike change in ski lengths but thatís big for cs differences. Whose to say what bike would fit the op better but they are significantly different bikes

  21. #121
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    Yeah, the new Bronson is basically a 2015-16 Nomad. But that bike is three years old so it must also be obsolete. ;-)

    Sorry, but I think for the most part people are full of shit when it comes to very subtle changes. I would LOVE to see a placebo-like test where someone thinks they're riding X instead of Y but it's actually the same bike.

  22. #122
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    Dec 2016
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    In a van... down by the river
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    This seems to be the trend - mfg'rs will leave the model name the same, even though the new model is NOTHING like the old.

    Giant did this - the new Reign is *nothing* like the Reign before about 2015. And the "new" Trance, in essence, is the same as the old Reign.

    It's kind of fucking dumb, but what're ya gonna do?

  23. #123
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    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Yeah, the new Bronson is basically a 2015-16 Nomad. But that bike is three years old so it must also be obsolete. ;-)

    Sorry, but I think for the most part people are full of shit when it comes to very subtle changes. I would LOVE to see a placebo-like test where someone thinks they're riding X instead of Y but it's actually the same bike.
    I believe the leverage ratio on the new Bronson is quite a bit different than the Nomad III.

    And you're absolutely correct that some people can't tell the difference between various geometry changes. Just like a lot of people can't tell a difference between different ski stiffnesses, or sidecut radiuses, or even ski lengths. But there are a lot of people that can. And the geo differences between the v1 and v3 Bronson are fairly significant, not to mention a bunch of less obvious changes in the suspension that will also make a noticeable difference.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    And you're absolutely correct that some people can't tell the difference between various geometry changes. Just like a lot of people can't tell a difference between different ski stiffnesses, or sidecut radiuses, or even ski lengths. But there are a lot of people that can. And the geo differences between the v1 and v3 Bronson are fairly significant, not to mention a bunch of less obvious changes in the suspension that will also make a noticeable difference.
    I don't doubt that subtle changes can be detected (I mean, the 2015 Bronson vs. the 2015 Nomad were obviously different bikes both ascending and descending, for example), but I think the actual riding impact of those changes is often exaggerated a bit. That's all.

    As for ski design and how it relates, well, I'm aware of an A / B test with two of the exact same skis and some funny feedback based on what the description of each ski was. Much like the tune of a ski can have a dramatic change on perception, so can a properly tuned up bike with the suspension set correctly.

  25. #125
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    Buying a new bike, bike industry has lost me

    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Yeah, the new Bronson is basically a 2015-16 Nomad. But that bike is three years old so it must also be obsolete. ;-)

    Sorry, but I think for the most part people are full of shit when it comes to very subtle changes. I would LOVE to see a placebo-like test where someone thinks they're riding X instead of Y but it's actually the same bike.
    I made my comparison because those two Bronsonís are pretty close to the difference between my rune and my scout in cs, reach, and seat angle. The scout/rune has a greater tt difference than the Bronsonís
    Iíve been just trail riding my scout mostly but a few days ago did a 4000ft shuttle drop then climbed/descended another 4000ft lap on the next mt. Rune was the bike for the job but , partially because Iíve been on the scout mostly, I was hating the slack seat tube and shorter reach on the rune on the steep logging road climb(mostly the slack sa). Both bikes are similar weight(within a lb) and same low gear. Couple days later I wanted to take the scout up the same logging road to really see the diff. So much more comfortable and efficient on the scout. Steep rough on the trail down the rune was better. Part of the reason for my test was because I swapped brakes as well. I put the sAints on my scout and put the guides on my rune. Guides are nice for trail riding but the saints almost pulled back the capability of the scout to match the control of the rune with the guides. Almost. A few times with the guides I had to 2 finger on an ultra steep trail. First time down the hidden mystery ďman purseĒ trail and it wasnít a place I wanted to get out of control.
    The two bikes have two distinctively different body type characteristics. Scout fits me better and after swapping back and forth for a couple years I find it hard not to take my scout most times unless Iím shuttling. Long legged , short torso rider would probably prefer the rune

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