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  1. #51
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    Use the Cane Creek app to tune your shock. It guides you through the whole process, and once done properly, you should notice the difference. On my 2016 Scout, I bumped up the front from 140 to 150, tuned the Cane Creek and swapped out the shitty brakes for some XT's and it is an essentially different bike to ride now (for the better). But then again, new bikes are fun, which is why I bought a Chromag to complement what I already had. N+1 = correct number of bikes (or skis..)

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    First of all there was no whining. I am someone who was looking for a new bike. I wanted to spend some money and walked into a couple of shops and was so fucking overwhelmed i went home and started doing some research. Then it was just downright confusing. This is a take on the bike industry. With all these SKU's you are making, the purchasing of a bike is way to fucking hard. And it is frustrating. I used to watch all the inovations but have lost interest.

    I can so relate to this. Did same thing a month or so ago. Went in, looked, got the shop guys spiel, head spinning, went home and continued research. Repeat at different bike shop. Ended up buying new tires and a dropper post and plan to keep riding my old bike a bit longer.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcpnz View Post
    I can so relate to this. Did same thing a month or so ago. Went in, looked, got the shop guys spiel, head spinning, went home and continued research. Repeat at different bike shop. Ended up buying new tires and a dropper post and plan to keep riding my old bike a bit longer.
    Hahahaha - bike industry shooting themselves in the foot because of all their horseshit that they've been pulling over the last 5 years.

    Serves them right.


  4. #54
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    Sep 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    On the drive train note. I am riding a 28 upfront and an 11-fourty somthing in the back. I spin out on the dh's so that is why i was thinking of going to the eagle.
    Hold on a second. You need to double check exactly what you're running for a cassette. From what I gather you have 11-speed XO, which is 10-42T with an xD driver cassette body. There is literally only one choice for full XO 11-spd.

    The only way you could be running 11-42t is if you had a Shimano freehub body with cheapo PG-1130 cassette or some other non-sram cassette.

    Otherwise, there are MANY wide range 11-speed cassette options for the shimano freehubs.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post

    The v1 Bronson is somewhat particular with suspension setup - once you find the sweet spot, though, it's pretty damn great. I really have no desire to upgrade for a few more years at least, since it probably won't lose too much more value than it already has.
    2 forks, 3 shocks and over 2 years of fiddling later, I got my 14 Bronson in a really good place and still love it. 3500 miles and counting

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcpnz View Post
    I can so relate to this. Did same thing a month or so ago. Went in, looked, got the shop guys spiel, head spinning, went home and continued research. Repeat at different bike shop. Ended up buying new tires and a dropper post and plan to keep riding my old bike a bit longer.
    glad i am not the only one.

    Yeah, and i am the ideal customer. I have no kids, do pretty well and really wanted to buy a bike. I wanted to give someone my money. If i owned a bike retail shop and saw this thread, i would not be happy. They only make a 30% margin in bikes, but think about that. $6,000 bike plus all the service down the road. That has to hurt.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    Hold on a second. You need to double check exactly what you're running for a cassette. From what I gather you have 11-speed XO, which is 10-42T with an xD driver cassette body. There is literally only one choice for full XO 11-spd.

    The only way you could be running 11-42t is if you had a Shimano freehub body with cheapo PG-1130 cassette or some other non-sram cassette.

    Otherwise, there are MANY wide range 11-speed cassette options for the shimano freehubs.
    ill check when i get he bike back after having the cane creek rebuilt

  8. #58
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    If you have the cash and an itch ride some of the new geometry bikes. I just got a transition sentinel coming from a 2013 Niner RIP and the long reach and slack head angle are game changers. You have to drive the front wheel or it won't hook up but when you do it is amazingly better than my old bike.

  9. #59
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    May 2011
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    ^^ lol... "new" geometry. It's not a 10 year old bike. The latest bikes are maybe a half degree more slack, in some cases, than most bikes from 2015. Let's not pretend the last three years were revolutionary.

    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    So if i have to buy and XD freehub, do i need to relace my Envy rear wheel to get the free hub on?
    You can run a Shimano 11 speed cassette (11-46) with the SRAM shifters - no XD hub adapter needed - works fine for me. The 46 granny vs. 42 will offset changing the chainring from 28 to 30. 30 - 46 is plenty to let you just sit and spin if needed.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    so that would work with SRAm xo or X1? that looks like a sweet cassette and going down to 10 is sick. Can you get them in the us, or only euopre. That looks like the ticket.
    Before you go down the route of buying a $300 cassette, you should do some gear ratio analysis (provided below). I would also strongly suggest against "upgrading" from an 11-speed drivetrain to a 10-speed drivetrain. I ride a 32x11-46 10 speed drivetrain and it works great. However, when I just replaced my rear derailleur I replaced with an 11-speed drerailleur because although I like my 10-speed drivetrain, the 11-speed will provide closer gear spacing which becomes more important as your cassette range gets wider. This is the only compelling argument IMO for going to Eagle, but I don't think it's strong enough for the cost.

    The best thing to start with is what range you currently have. In the attached picture, the left hand column shows a 28x11-46 (what we believe you have currently), middle left column shows a 30x11-46, and middle right shows a 30x11-50, and far right shows a 32x11-50.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    What I see is that you could move to a 30t chainring and an 11-50 cassette (30x11-50, or middle right column), keep your low end and get a bigger high end. The Sunrace 11-50 cassette is probably not the only option out there, but those tend to be 1/2-1/3 the cost of SRAM or other boutique part manufacturers, although a fair amount heavier per part. I've had good luck with them.

    Personally, I would do that and replace your cables for better shifting.

    As for the suspension issues, I'd strongly consider sending your fork and shock to a custom suspension tuner to start. You'll probably spend $250 or so and it will come back tuned for you. You'll still need to do a little tweaking to get it right, but it will start out much closer. I rented a Shockwiz from my LBS for a weekend and felt like it was helpful, although my personal tweaks didn't align exactly with what the Shockwiz told me. However, this can make your adjustments a bit more scientific to start. There are a lot of suggestions on which suspension tuners are the best. I've personally only used is Cody who is at the Suspension Syndicate in Salt Lake City. I will continue to send him my suspension as it needs tuning in the future.

    Hope this is helpful!

    Seth

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    ^^ lol... "new" geometry. It's not a 10 year old bike. The latest bikes are maybe a half degree more slack, in some cases, than most bikes from 2015. Let's not pretend the last three years were revolutionary.



    You can run a Shimano 11 speed cassette (11-46) with the SRAM shifters - no XD hub adapter needed - works fine for me. The 46 granny vs. 42 will offset changing the chainring from 28 to 30. 30 - 46 is plenty to let you just sit and spin if needed.
    a v1 bronson (2013-2015) in a large has reach of 428 and a top tube of 610 and a 67 head angle, 1164 wb. A new transition scout in a large has 475 reach, 632 top tube a 65 head angle and 1218 wb. A new bronson is only 455 reach but still has a 65 HA and 1215 wb. That is a drastic change in ride experience. The older numbers still work, but I would rather ride a 2018 long slack bike with crappy parts instead of a short steep pimped bike.

  12. #62
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    Guys, there's a 99% chance he has a XD hub and 10-42 cassette, so let's stop with the 11-xx talk.

    I'll agree on the custom suspension tune. No Bronson should ever be described as "isnt super plush going down" so something is clearly whack. Custom tune probably isn't really necessary per se, but considering the amount of money he was set to drop on a new bike it would be money well spent.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    ok one last question, if i did the 10/50 or the 10/48, would i need a different rear derailliuer, something with a short cage? I guess i need to see what is on the bronson now

    Do you have Shimano or Sram shifter/derailleur? Generally going wider range on ten speed you might need a LONGER derailleur cage but since youíre on 11 speed youíre probably fine up to 46 or so. Donít know if you looked at Johnnyís link for the Garbaruk stuff but itís all 11 speed for SRAM XD. Theyíve got grannies going all the way up to 50t, same as Eagle. They also have packages with new cages for your derailleur which will surely help things out, probably required IMO above 46. Stuff seems nice.

    I *think* youíre on XO *10*-42 now. FWIW thatís the best performing drivetrain Iíve ever used, better at 4000 miles than my brand new XO Eagle. (Although the 2nd gen Eagle I have now seems just as good.) With the Garbaruk stuff you can have the same range as Eagle in 11 speed with a new derailleur cage for Ä357. Kinda pricy considering you can get NX Eagle for not much more than that but NX is heavy as fuck. The cassette is nearly double the weight! The Garbaruk stuff seems nice, and you get to keep your XO.

    If youíre on Shimano 11 speed they have stuff for that too.

    Also yeah, work on your suspension too. What fork and shock? Cane Creek DB Air or Inline? Iíve heard the DB Air can feel kind of dead relative to itís coil counterpart. Donít know about the Inline except that it has spotty reliability. Personally Iíd want a piggy back shock for DH performance and consistency. As mentioned above, Iíve also read that the Bronson has a pretty small sweet spot in terms of suspension tuning. If any of your local shops carry and rent the Shock Wiz, that makes tuning your suspension a no-brainer and is money well spent. Especially for that bike.

    If youíre on a Pike see if needs a rebuild or a new one. Mi Ď15 Pike wore out after a while. Replaced it with a Ď17 Lyric and WOW! I liked the Pike but the newer Lyric was head and shoulders above it for descending at a very modest weight penalty.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    ^^ lol... "new" geometry. It's not a 10 year old bike. The latest bikes are maybe a half degree more slack, in some cases, than most bikes from 2015. Let's not pretend the last three years were revolutionary.
    FWIW I demo'd a LOT of bikes this summer and I did find a pretty noticeable benefit/difference from the latest geometry trend - slack HA, steep SA, long reach. AKA all of Transition's new bikes, the new Yetis, the new Evil Offering, etc. That's the main reason I bought a Patrol. For me it's mostly the long reach and steep SA - longer reach is WAY more comfortable descending (for me) and steep SA is WAY more comfortable climbing (for me). Part of that is I have an old SI injury and opening up the angle at my hips helps me a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by sethschmautz View Post
    I would also strongly suggest against "upgrading" from an 11-speed drivetrain to a 10-speed drivetrain.
    He was talking about going to a cassette with a 10T small cog, not a 10 speed drivetrain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  15. #65
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    You could always sell your Bronson and for even money buy one of these ( $3500 IMBA membership price), with a completely ridiculous component spec for the price, especially since it is basically a straight-up Bronson copy, albeit with slightly less rear travel:

    https://www.diamondback.com/release-5c-carbon-41

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlh View Post
    a v1 bronson (2013-2015) in a large has reach of 428 and a top tube of 610 and a 67 head angle, 1164 wb. A new transition scout in a large has 475 reach, 632 top tube a 65 head angle and 1218 wb. A new bronson is only 455 reach but still has a 65 HA and 1215 wb. That is a drastic change in ride experience. The older numbers still work, but I would rather ride a 2018 long slack bike with crappy parts instead of a short steep pimped bike.
    The new Bronson is 65.4 degrees... so it's 1.6 degrees different from v1. I've ridden both. It's not that different. A little bit, but not DRASTIC. There's also a placebo affect with demoing new bikes. To describe the v1 as "steep" is kind of hilarious hyperbole. So... yeah, they made the Bronson more like the Nomad used to be, meaning it's also less playful. Everything is a trade off.

    FWIW - the top three finishers of this year's Downieville DH were all on bikes that are a few years old. OMG - they didn't die!

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Guys, there's a 99% chance he has a XD hub and 10-42 cassette, so let's stop with the 11-xx talk.

    I'll agree on the custom suspension tune. No Bronson should ever be described as "isnt super plush going down" so something is clearly whack. Custom tune probably isn't really necessary per se, but considering the amount of money he was set to drop on a new bike it would be money well spent.
    You are right, i just talked to the shop. XTR shifters, and i fucked up. I am running a 10/42 in the back and i have the xd adapter. 150 mill pike up front and the Cane Creek Double Barrell in the back.

    So i guess that changes things.

  18. #68
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    A shorter stem and offset bushings can help this bike too but the cockpit's already short. Bikes have actually changed a lot in the last three years. Reach has grown 25-50mm for comparable applications and size ranges, head angles have dropped 1-2 degrees, seat angles have increased 2-5 degrees. Damping's gotten better on all the high end suspension. This stuff makes a big difference in ride.

    OP could spend a lot of time and money making this bike ride better but it still won't compare to something truly modern. He's already missed the boat on resale and won't get the money back on this bike either way. I'm a whore but I've upgraded twice since 2015. The more I think about it, the OP should too. Don't throw good money after bad. Sounds like you've got the dough and want a new bike, get one. The new bikes are fuckin awesome.

    The Bronson V3 is a way different bike than yours, for the same application. Maybe start there? Maybe try a new [gasp!] 29er?
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  19. #69
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    and xx1 derailleur.

  20. #70
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    Apr 2007
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    You should use your bike until you have used it up. Trading in your bike every 3 years for no good reason fuels a materials economy that is destroying the earth, culture, clean water, and air. This applies to all our gear, cars, cloths, ect.
    Flame on.

  21. #71
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    OK, you don't have a Shimano XTR shifter and a SRAM XX1 derailluer. They don't work together, the cable pull ratios are different. You can mix and match brands on cassettes but the shifter and derailleur are the same brand.

    Regardless though, if you are running 10-42 then the easiest upgrade is to go to a wider range cassette (9-46 or 10-46) and switch back to your 30T chainring. Your granny gear will stay the same, and you will gain top end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    You are right, i just talked to the shop. XTR shifters, and i fucked up. I am running a 10/42 in the back and i have the xd adapter. 150 mill pike up front and the Cane Creek Double Barrell in the back.

    So i guess that changes things.
    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    and xx1 derailleur.
    Wait, XTR shifter with an XX1 derailleur? That doesn't work. At any rate, there's a multitude of wider range cassettes out there for your setup.

    If your rear end feels harsh, find out if you're running any volume spacers in your air can on your shock. Easy enough to pull it yourself and see. If you have any or a lot, pull one or two out. That'll give you a more linear spring rate. Also, back off on your compression damping. Use the Cane Creek app to start. If it still doesn't feel good, use a Shock Wiz.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    OK, you don't have a Shimano XTR shifter and a SRAM XX1 derailluer. They don't work together, the cable pull ratios are different. You can mix and match brands on cassettes but the shifter and derailleur are the same brand.

    Regardless though, if you are running 10-42 then the easiest upgrade is to go to a wider range cassette (9-46 or 10-46) and switch back to your 30T chainring. Your granny gear will stay the same, and you will gain top end.
    Again you are right, i have xtr brake levers, and then the xx1 shifters. I am like the clown who says he skis, and when you ask him what gear he has, he doesn't know. I laugh when people tell me how good they are but can not tell me what they are skiing on.
    Anyway, thanks for all the info. Once i get me shock back i will start dealing with tuning the suspension.

  24. #74
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    Itís perfectly okay to not like the Bronson. It wouldnít hurt to fiddle with the suspension, but ultimately you may just not like it. I have a track record of disliking VPP bikes.

    Ride some stuff. Like carlh said, geo has changed a lot since the v1 came out. Maybe you wonít see what the big deal is, or maybe youíll be sold on a different suspension and newer geometry and will fall in love with another bike. If you want a new bike, get a new bike. Though, donít expect to get much for your Bronson.

    Also, SC, Pivot, and Yeti make some good bikes, but not necessarily better than the shitload of other options. You can get a solid bike without spending $6K particularly this time of year.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    Good questions. I dont know, it seems to climb well but isnt super plush going down. I rode a Trek when i was in hood river the other week. It was a a fuel 9.8 29 er. Was sweet going downhill but was super sluggish climbing. i want something that will take large hits, is quick but climbs well. I am not racing XC but want to be able to go out and put in 20-30 miles (monarch crest) and not have a bike that drags me down on the climbs. I know those are huge generalizations.
    Okay, so TahoeJ and I have the same bike as you, and I have blingy carbon wheels and X01 11 speed as well.

    The only thing you can't get with your current Bronson is a longer frame, lower BB height, and shorter chainstay. Nowhere in your ask did you say you want a more forward-oriented cockpit that puts you "in the frame" vs. "on the frame," nor did I see you talk about how you like the rear end to behave or manualling the bike. But I haven't read every detailed post in this thread ...

    Before you dump the bike, (because even if you have cash to burn I would tell you to go get yourself a sick hardtail like a GG Pedalhead to complement the Bronson), here's what you should consider to make your bike "more plush on the DH without dragging on the uphill," from someone who is close to "maxing out" his own Gen 1 Bronson CC:

    1. Find a local suspension tuner who knows Cane Creek well, or just dump the CCDB shock in favor of a Monarch+ RC3 or Float X EVOL (and get that shock set up properly for your weight). You didn't mention whether you have an Inline or reservoir shock, but for long sustained descents the reservoir is the way to go, and the larger air cans on the latest Fox/Rock Shock shocks are way better than what was available when the Bronson1 was shipping. Avalanche is in CO, do they do Cane Creek?

    2. Buy and have a shop install an RWC needle bearing kit where the shock mounts to the rocker - that will allow you to run a higher sag pressure while keeping initial stroke sensitivity awesome - it is a huge change on the Bronson v1 rocker arm, trust me. #1 and #2 together will make the climbing feel way more supportive with better traction, and the descending feel much smoother on high speed hits or chatter. #1 and #2 won't give you the same exact mechanical linkage properties of a new Bronson or 5010, but still will make a huge difference and get you like 90% of the way there without buying a whole new frame.

    3. Works anglset, -1 degree if you just want a slightly more stable feel descending and -1.5 if you like to go fast and have a flexible upper body you can use to keep your climbing posture (teets on bar). I haven't found any negative climbing impacts on the -1 in the Bronson1, but I also combo this with a Pike DPA (dual position air) fork that lets me run 130mm climbing and 160mm descending.

    4. Are you running a Pike fork? If not, get a non-boosted one and sell your current fork. If so, what was the last time you had it overhauled? Maybe you need to check out your damper. If it's in tip top shape and it's not plush enough for your rowdy ass, then get a Lyrik.

    5. 30t oval chainring. You seriously care that you are spinning out on the DH with your 28t? On what kind of terrain? Are you trying to set local Strava records or something? If so, you might have a legitimate case for Eagle.


    1 - 5 above, assuming you sell any takeoff gear that's in good condition, will cost you barely north of $500 and transform your bike.
    That leaves plenty to put into your new skis or new hardtail or new ebike fund.


    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    The new Bronson is 65.4 degrees... so it's 1.6 degrees different from v1. I've ridden both. It's not that different. A little bit, but not DRASTIC.
    I've ridden both - you and I have the same bike. And the new geo can be drastic depending on how & what terrain you like to ride. I much more enjoy the shorter chainstay and lower BB of the updated Bronson geo because it's more fun whipping the rear end of every small whoopty bump with that kind of geo. I much enjoy longer front ends that put you inside the bike like a jet fighter ... and also the new Bronson front end is nothing like the front end of a Guerrilla Gravity or Transition.

    But you can make a v1 Bronson closer to a new Bronson, given the above things.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

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