Bear Hunting- Pro or Anti?

[Banh Mi]

Attachment 250448

Well, for starters, there would be about 10,000 grizzlies living in Betelgeuse's neighborhood (California) so he would probably have a totally different opinion on the subject.

Pretty fucking easy to have simple opinions about charismatic megafauna while one is living somewhere where no one ever gets shredded by grizzlies.

For the record, I don't approve of hunting or culling grizzlies. I'd rather see 200 of them dumped in Betelgeuse's backyard.

Dont tell me what my opinion would be. Id have mastiffs. Bears come in my hood all the time. One mastiff’s bark and a holler it goes away. Imagine 5 or 6 of em. Bears dont group up, grizz wont fuck with 6 mastiffs. Id rather have it that way, it’d keep all the fucken yuppies out. I never said killing bears in self defense was wrong either. I’ll tell you, I am damn good at self defense

In before someone doesnt realize my tone above. There are modern solutions, not the retarded barbaric way to just kill whatever humans dont get along with. Its called progression. I’d bet 50 years from now, the science is completely different.

Fuck this thread. Now I’m subbed to this shitcrevice.

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[S_jenks]

Balance. We humans hunted, culled, and chased wolves, bears (grizzlies mainly), and buffalo out of their historical ranges. A human intervention. We start with agriculture and follow with recreation and take over habitat. Human intervention. We build giant mountain second homes in prime habitat. Human intervention. We bring species back to places which impacts other species. Human intervention. Ranchers get pissed. Some hunters (the kind I don't respect much) get angry. Reintroduction is always going to piss someone off. I'm generally for reintroduction and pissing people off. But it's more human intervention. People build where they shouldn't and then have mountain lion problems. Can't hunt them because that pisses someone off. Can't let them eat toy poodles in rich neighborhoods so the gov pays professional hit men with your tax dollars. Human intervention. We create preserves such as Yellowstone where animals live in a "perfect" ecosystem with humans driving through and tourists taking selfies with the animals. Someone gets maimed. Relocate or cull the animal. Human intervention. Harsh winter and deer and elk populations go down, wolves move and get into livestock. Now we have deadstock. More intervention.

There's no going back as we're always going to be involved. If there's no hunters, populations (in the right weather years) get big and diseases hits herds. I'd rather see people do what people do and eat those animals than watch them die. We want to help mountain goats thrive but we don't have funding. There's a governor auction tag sold at auction and someone throws $400,000 into the conservation fund to shoot one. I'm not saying the motive of hunters is always great but the funding to pay for wildlife management is nice. Most states' fish and game conservation officers doing all the work trying to keep a balance between wildlife and humans is funded by hunters and anglers like it or not.

I don't think wildlife is at a perfect balance but nature will never be able to do what nature used to do to keep things in balance until humans are gone. So, as the god players we are, we will try to keep a balance. Sadly, those who want to make money usually win and things go out of balance more than they are kept in balance.

Like I said, I'm impartial to carnivore hunting but if the scientists say there are enough of them to hunt, I'm going to believe the scientists. There's political balances and compromises at play too. I'd recommend reading Wolfer by Carter Niemeyer. Really interesting account of predator management and the reintroduction of wolves by the guy who did the reintroduction.

Conundrum knocks it out of the park on this subject. I'm not a huge fan of trophy hunting, and definitely not into carnivore hunting. Yet hunts for bears cannot be ruled out.

Anti-hunt groups often argue that controlling animal populations will unnaturally affect the balance of nature. It's not an incorrect statement, but people who evoke it often ignore the realities of wildlife management in NA: It's a really fucking difficult job to get right. Between the voices of conservationist, pro-business, and various user groups, it's hard for science to get a word in without their arguments being hijack by one side or another. Finding a solution that doesn't step on the toes of one group is damn near impossible.

There will always have to be a middle ground between science and the political voices on how public resources should be managed. We can't just separate out nature from human presence entirely, and the end result is we have to be responsible for managing wild animal populations. For the sake of balance, the topic of population control, even for predators, has to be part of this conversation.

[neckdeep]

Dont tell me what my opinion would be. Id have mastiffs. Bears come in my hood all the time. One mastiff’s bark and a holler it goes away. Imagine 5 or 6 of em. Bears dont group up, grizz wont fuck with 6 mastiffs

Oh, is that the obvious solution that everyone up here has overlooked? You really are brilliant. I'm trying to imagine what this area would be like if everyone insisted on living their lives inside a protective ring of mastiffs.

[Banh Mi]

I was being sarcastic O brilliant one. Now I get it..

I meant that coming up with other solutions is a higher way of thinking than killing them.

You basically just called me a pussy and then edited it out. I think you guys are barbaric.

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[neckdeep]

I was being sarcastic O brilliant one. Now I get it..

You basically just called me a pussy and then edited it out.

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Ya, if you are just being sarcastic, I see no need to go there.

I go into grizzly habitat all the time, by myself, without a mastiff. It's not the smartest thing to do but it can't be helped because, around here, grizzly habitat has expanded far beyond the woods. What's your "modern solution" for that? The only one I've come up with is to carry an extra can of spray.

Grizzlies don't want to move out of the woods. They get pushed out by other bears because the woods around here are ridiculously overpopulated with bears. What is your "modern solution" for that?

[Banh Mi]

So its pussy to come up with other solutions to protect nature, but not to kill it off. I personally think the other way around


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[2FUNKY]

I dont think we can be friends


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Oh nooooo. Here I thought we were besties. Does this mean no snuggles at the BBI crib?
Curious as to what you edited out.

[Banh Mi]

No more bbi crib, dont wanna room with someone like this

Im pretty upset with you. Gonna need time and space. Im gonna go cry

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[Banh Mi]

I just do’nt think you need to hunt a bear. Thoughts?

Seriously, fuck you DSM. Thanks for being divisive


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[BCMtnHound]

This concept of balance in nature is a misnomer. It can only be called such using statistics over a suitably long period of time, encompassing many generations. It is more like a river, in that it cycles and reacts to pressures along time. There is no garden of eden.

And bears are not carnivores. We are closer to carnivores than they are. They can digest cellulose far better than we can (but do not have a cecum like a proper herbivore). They are opportunistic omnivores, and will adapt to consume the food providing the greatest caloric intake requiring the least amount of caloric expenditure to acquire.

409 Beadnose won America’s fattest bear, beating out 747!

Damn, that is one winter-ready bear!

[iceman]

He really let himself go.

[neckdeep]

So its pussy to come up with other solutions to protect nature, but not to kill it off. I personally think the other way around


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No.

Hiking everywhere with a pack of mastiffs and driving your neighbors crazy with wildlife harassing dogs that howl indiscriminately at everything that moves = pussy.

[Banh Mi]

I dont think it’s “scared”, I’d be protecting myself. To not do that is just flat out stupid. I understand why people did it your way 100 years ago, but things have changed.

English Mastiffs dont do that either. They dont bark unless they have to. Keeping a bear out of the hood isnt harassment.


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[neckdeep]

I dont think it’s “scared”, I’d be protecting myself. To not do that is just flat out stupid. I understand why people did it your way 100 years ago, but things have changed.

English Mastiffs dont do that either. They dont bark unless they have to. Keeping a bear out of the hood isnt harassment.


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Ok. So the best "modern solution" you have is to somehow supply tens of thousands of households with a pack of expertly trained English Mastiffs. Good luck with that.

[Banh Mi]

No the best solution is to come up with new solutions. Not to kill them.

I dont think the only way to solve this is human extinction. Thats some stupid shit

I cant waste any more time on this. I have marine bio today in oceanography, where we are talking about shark population

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[BCMtnHound]

Keeping a bear out of the hood isnt harassment.

That’s an awfully self-centred view of the situation!

[neckdeep]

No the best solution is to come up with new solutions.

You could just say you don't have an answer and stfu. You aren't even looking at the problem so its no surprise you are short on solutions.

[bagtagley]

Lotta folks baiting and chasing with GPS collared dogs here. I'm all for actual hunting, but these fuckers sit in their trucks and track the hunt on a screen, which I think is bullshit. I get that some people rely on hunting for their subsistence, but it's hard to feel bad for the guy that's got tens of thousands of dollars tied up in a truck, dogs, and equipment.

The only recent instances of negative bear encounters have been traced back to baiting, bears being chased, or outright "it's coming right for us" bullshit lies. That probably bothers me more than anything. It makes people afraid of black bears when they don't need to be. They're amazing, curious creatures, and getting to see one in the wild is a gift.

[Banh Mi]

You could just say you don't have an answer and stfu.

“ a derppppp, uh Oh I dont have an answer, so lemme just kill it”

I will stfu up now, and go study a solution to animal population decline

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[Conundrum]

I know I'd get my face ripped off but I want to go hug that fatty bear and make him my friend. He just looks like he'd sit on the bank and critique your back cast between mouthfuls of huckleberries and then go down to the bar for a Coors at the end of the day with you. See how easy it is to humanize these wild animals.

[neckdeep]

It makes people afraid of black bears when they don't need to be. .

That is just flat out not true. Black bears have killed 24 people in just the last two decades and mauled dozens more. Bagtagley, I don't wan't to start a pissing match here but black bears are, in fact, quite dangerous. When a black bear starts moving your way, look the fuck out because they kill people as prey. That's why you are supposed to fight like hell against a black bear mauling. I slammed a window on one's head once.

Black bear

Name, age, gender Date Type Location Description

Erin Johnson, 27, female June 19, 2017 Wild Pogo mine, Alaska Johnson, a contract employee for Pogo Mine, was killed while collecting soil samples. The bear was shot and killed by mine personnel.[7][8]

Patrick Cooper, 16, male June 18, 2017 Wild Indian, Alaska Cooper was chased and mauled by a bear while running in the juniors' division of the Bird Ridge trail's running race. Cooper texted his family after completing the race, to say he was being followed by a bear. Searchers found the runner's remains 500 yards from the trail and shot the bear in the face with a shotgun, which scared the bear and forced him into the woods away from the body.[9]

Daniel Ward O'Connor, 27, male May 10, 2015 Wild near Mackenzie, British Columbia Ward was killed by a bear while he slept near the fire pit at his campsite. His fiancée who slept in a nearby motorhome discovered his body the following morning. The bear was later shot and killed by conservation officers.[10][11]

Darsh Patel, 22, male September 21, 2014 Wild near West Milford, New Jersey Patel was about to begin hiking with four friends in Apshawa Preserve when they met a man and a woman at the entrance who told them there was a bear nearby and advised them to turn around.[12] They continued on, found the bear, and Patel and another hiker took photos. They turned and began walking away, but the bear followed them. The hikers ran in different directions, and found that Patel was missing when they regrouped. Authorities found Patel's body after searching for two hours. A black bear found in the vicinity was killed, although it is unknown which particular bear was involved in the incident.[13] According to the State Department of Environmental Protection, this was the first fatal bear attack on a human in New Jersey on record.[13]

Lorna Weafer, 36, female May 7, 2014 Wild near Fort McMurray, Alberta Weafer, a Suncor worker was attacked at the remote North Steepbank oil sands mine site while walking back to work after a trip to the washroom. Efforts by co-workers to scare off the bear were unsuccessful. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police shot and killed the bear upon arrival. A preliminary investigation determined that the attack was predatory.[14]

Robert Weaver, 64, male June 6, 2013 Wild near Delta Junction, Alaska Weaver was attacked by a black bear while walking back to his cabin on George Lake, according to his wife, who was able to flee inside the cabin and was uninjured. A 230 lb (104.3 kg) adult male black bear on the scene was killed by troopers and found to have some of Weaver's remains in his stomach.[15]

Lana Hollingsworth, 61, female July 25, 2011 Wild Pinetop-Lakeside, Arizona Hollingsworth was attacked by a 250 lb (113.4 kg) black bear while walking her dog at a country club. Nearly a month later and after eleven surgeries, she died from a massive brain hemorrhage, which doctors believe was a result of the attack. The bear was tracked, shot, and killed.[16]

Bernice Adolph, 72, female June 2011 Wild near Lillooet, British Columbia Adolph's remains were found by police dogs after she was reported missing. She was an elder in the Xaxli'p First Nation. There was evidence that bears fed on Adolph's remains, and tried to enter her house. An autopsy confirmed that she died from a bear attack. Five bears suspected of being involved were killed by conservation officers, and DNA tests confirmed that one of the dead bears killed Adolph.[17]

Brent Kandra, 24, male August 19, 2010 Captive Columbia Station, Ohio Kandra was a bear caretaker on property of Sam Mazzola that kept exotic pets. The bear was out of its cage for feeding. Prior to the attack, Sam Mazzola had his license to exhibit animals revoked, but was still allowed to keep the animals on his property.[18] He also accumulated dozens of dangerous, exotic animals despite past convictions and losing his license after animal rights activists complained he was making money by letting people wrestle bears.

Kelly Ann Walz, 37, female October 4, 2009 Captive Ross Township, Pennsylvania Walz, whose husband had an expired license to keep exotic animals, was attacked while cleaning her pet bear's cage. She tried to distract the bear by throwing dog food to the opposite end of the cage. A neighbor shot and killed the bear.[52]

Donna Munson, 74, female August 6, 2009 Wild Ouray, Colorado Munson had been feeding bears for a decade, and was repeatedly warned by wildlife officials. After a bear was injured in a fight with an older and bigger bear, Munson left food out to help the injured bear. The older bear came back to Munson's property, forced its way past a wire fence, and mauled Munson. Later, wildlife officials killed two bears on Munson's property. One of the bears had a necropsy which revealed evidence that it consumed Munson.[53][54]

Cecile Lavoie, 70, female May 30, 2008 Wild near La Sarre, Quebec After Lavoie didn't return to her cabin following a solo fishing outing, her husband went looking for her. He found a bear dragging her body into the woods.[55]

Robin Kochorek, 31, female July 20, 2007 Wild Panorama Mountain Resort, British Columbia Kochorek was reported missing after mountain biking. A black bear was found near her corpse the morning after her disappearance. The bear was shot on sight by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP).[56]

Samuel Evan Ives, 11, male June 17, 2007 Wild Uinta National Forest, Utah Ives was grabbed from a family tent in American Fork Canyon, and mauled. State wildlife officials killed the bear, which had entered the campsite the night before.[57] Ives' family sued the U.S. Forest Service because there was no warning about the bear's presence.[58][59] A judge awarded the family $1.95 million.[60] It was the first known fatal black bear attack in Utah.[59]

Elora Petrasek, 6, female April 13, 2006 Wild Cherokee National Forest, Tennessee A bear attacked the family at a waterfall near a campground. Petrasek's mother and brother were also injured. The bear was trapped and killed, and an unrelated bear was mistakenly killed.[61][62][63]

Jacqueline Perry, 30, female September 6, 2005 Wild Missinaibi Lake Provincial Park, Ontario Perry was killed in an attack at a remote campsite.[64] Her husband was seriously injured trying to protect her with a Swiss Army knife, and later was given a Star of Courage award from Governor General Michaëlle Jean.[65] Ministry of Natural Resources staff shot and killed the bear near the area where the fatal attack occurred.[66]

Harvey Robinson, 69, male August 26, 2005 Wild Selkirk, Manitoba Robinson was fatally mauled while picking plums north of Winnipeg, Manitoba. Robinson's family were investigating the area with an RCMP officer later that day, and were also attacked. The officer shot and killed the bear.[67]

Merlyn Carter, 71, male June 14, 2005 Wild Nonacho Lake, Northwest Territories Carter was found dead behind the main cabin of his fishing camp. Carter's son came to the cabin the day after the attack, and shot and killed the bear.[68]

Maurice Malenfant, 77, male September 29, 2002 Wild Saint-Zénon-du-Lac-Humqui, Quebec Malenfant was attacked in his campsite in the Gaspé region of Quebec.[69][70]

Christopher Bayduza, 31, male September 1, 2002 Wild near Fort Nelson, British Columbia After going for a walk behind a trailer, Bayduza was attacked at a remote oil rigging site in northeastern British Columbia.[71][72]

Ester Schwimmer, 5 months, female August 19, 2002 Wild Fallsburg, New York A bear knocked Schwimmer from her stroller, which was near the porch of her family's vacation home. The bear carried the infant in its mouth to the woods. Schwimmer died of neck and head injuries.[73]

Adelia Maestras Trujillo, 93, female August 18, 2001 Wild Mora, New Mexico A bear broke through a glass pane to gain entry into Trujillo's house and killed her. Trujillo's body was found in her kitchen. The bear was shot .5 miles (0.80 km) from the house.[74]

Kyle Harry, 18, male June 3, 2001 Wild near Yellowknife, Northwest Territories Harry was attacked while with a group at a rural campsite 25 kilometres (16 mi) east of Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories, Canada.[75]

Mary Beth Miller, 24, female July 2, 2000 Wild near Valcartier, Quebec Miller was attacked while on a biathlon training run in a wooded area on a military base. The bear was trapped and killed four days later.[1][76]

Glenda Ann Bradley, 50, female May 21, 2000 Wild Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Tennessee Bradley was attacked and partially consumed by a mother bear and a cub, 1.5 miles (2.4 km) upstream from Elkmont, Tennessee. It was the first fatal bear attack in a southeastern U.S. National Park. While hovering over Bradley's corpse, the bears were shot and killed by park rangers.[1][77]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._North_America

[BCMtnHound]

He really let himself go.

I know I'd get my face ripped off but I want to go hug that fatty bear and make him my friend. He just looks like he'd sit on the bank and critique your back cast between mouthfuls of huckleberries and then go down to the bar for a Coors at the end of the day with you. See how easy it is to humanize these wild animals.

‘He’ is a she. So you might get more than barstool companionship by the end of the night Conundrum. But you will be warm!

[Conundrum]

This changes nothing.

[S_jenks]

I think he meant unnecessarily afraid of bears, neckdeep.

"24 people in just the last two decades" is a sobering number, but we're talking the entirety of NA with that stat. You're more likely to be killed in an auto-accident on your way to the trail head. Encounters are rare, and most times they end in nothing because the bear just isn't interested in the human.

A healthy fear of bears is justified, but I'd argue that the numbers are small compare to the hysteria people have about the subject.

[Danno]

Seriously, fuck you DSM. Thanks for being divisive

lots of reason to tell DSM to fuck off, being divisive is way low on the list.