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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyfalk View Post
    Can I ask where you were in Big Cottonwood you found that? What Skintrack?
    On the way to powder park 1

  2. #202
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    Oct 2010
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    Lunchtime update



    It didn't snow like that for very long but it sure was purdy.

  3. #203
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    has anyone been on N Timp lately? I have been out of town for two weeks and would love to know where we need to watch out for the old rotten stuff up there.
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    dude freaks me out everytime I see him I flashback to the weird cher mask movie

  4. #204
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    High Boy in November? Pinch me.

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  5. #205
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    I have some questions about that email that Alta sent out today regarding FS land swaps and Grizzly. Is this a good place to discuss? If not, can anyone point me in the right direction to an existing thread? Or should I start my own?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingleberry View Post
    pissing in a sink? fucking rookies. Shit in an oven, then you'll be pro.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose View Post
    I have some questions about that email that Alta sent out today regarding FS land swaps and Grizzly. Is this a good place to discuss? If not, can anyone point me in the right direction to an existing thread? Or should I start my own?
    Yeah post the email

  7. #207
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    Dec 2014
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    9
    @snowaddict91 I watched that slide from the north side of the pen on Sunday. Surprised that there was *any* snow left in there.

    Views were great this morning, the skiing, not so much. Judging by the conga line going up Milly people are really enjoying the November turns.

    https://imgur.com/S6pdIpE
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose View Post
    I have some questions about that email that Alta sent out today regarding FS land swaps and Grizzly. Is this a good place to discuss? If not, can anyone point me in the right direction to an existing thread? Or should I start my own?
    I haven't seen the email in question, but the short answer is that Alta is going to shoot the hostage. Latest email from WBCA makes it sounds like Town of Alta is pretty pissed off at Alta Ski Lifts about ASL's refusal to compromise.

  9. #209
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    I SUPPORT ALTA

    Dear Alta Skiers,



    In 1938, the first chairlift in Utah starting spinning and skiing began in Little Cottonwood Canyon. The early ski pioneers invented powder techniques and snow safety science that have since become the industry benchmark. Some 81 years later, Alta is still a magical place steeped in tradition—a pantheon for powder that attracts skiers from across the globe with the promise to float ones skis on The Greatest Snow on Earth. For those of us who came for and tasted that first unforgettable powder day, we become family and come back year after year. Many of us Alta skiers have passed along this love affair to the next generation of skiers.


    Simply put. We came for the skiing and stayed for the skiing.


    Enter Alta Ski Area’s mission statement, “to provide authentic skiing experiences in a natural mountain environment.” We always have and always will put our focus on skiing.


    Don’t you return to Alta each winter because the skiing remains unchanged? We thought so and now we need your support because we’re in a predicament.


    The Now, The Future

    Salt Lake City is growing very quickly and there are more and more people playing in the mountains every year. The Mountain Accord was created to develop collaborative solutions for dealing with recreational access, transportation, economic growth and environmental protections associated with the projected growth. The Mountain Accord designated the base of existing ski areas in the Cottonwood Canyons as clustered nodes where additional mountain development could be used to accommodate recreational growth. Legislation drafted from the Mountain Accord process included authorization for the ski areas in the Cottonwood Canyons to trade private alpine mountain lands for base areas lands to facilitate base area development. The Mountain Accord was deemed incomplete at the federal level, legislation stalled and the Mountain Accord was dissolved. The Central Wasatch Commission (CWC) was created to continue the collaborative work of the Mountain Accord and implement the values and actions of the Mountain Accord.



    Since the conditions for the exchange of some of Alta’s private lands were not met, Alta Ski Area has removed its private lands in Grizzly Gulch from the proposed land exchange to preserve its options for accommodating recreational growth. With Grizzly Gulch off the table, special interest groups have pressured the CWC to remove Alta from legislation authorizing Alta the ability to exchange sensitive private alpine lands outside the ski area for base area lands in the ski area. Other ski areas have been authorized to exchange private lands for base area lands. This action seems unfair and is contrary to values and collaborative spirit of the Mountain Accord.



    Please Support Alta

    This is where your help is needed. Please support Alta's vision of preparing for recreational growth in a manner that preserves the Alta experience and manages the impact on the environment. Alta believes the currently proposed legislation should:



    • Provide solutions to reduce congestion and improve transportation and parking in the Cottonwood Canyons.
    • Respect and protect private landowner and ski area permit holder rights.
    • Authorize land exchanges of sensitive private alpine lands for heavily used base area lands in ski areas.
    • Provide protections for sensitive public lands and watershed.
    • Legislation should be fair to all stakeholders.


    Please join Alta in calling upon public officials and legislators to look beyond the rhetoric of special interest groups demanding that Alta be removed from legislation authorizing future land exchange with the Forest Service.

  10. #210
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    I read that email as a lift will be going up Grizzly at some point in the future, and Alta is looking for morans who can't think for themselves (or don't appreciate having morecentral wasatch bc/undeveloped areas) to support them with a signature (link in email, not posting it here).

    Aka fuck off Mike Maughan

    (but would be happy if I'm interpreting that incorrectly and they are in the "right" here)

  11. #211
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    The bottom line is that ASL wants a taxpayer-funded train up LCC and/or tunnel to BCC, rational economic analysis be damned. Until that happens their position is that they're taking their ball, going home, and everyone else can fuck off.

  12. #212
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    That email was a nice reminder to double my annual donations to SOC and WBA. See you on our public lands on top of Mt Baldy 4/29/2019

  13. #213
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    Statement on the Commentaries Regarding Alta Ski Lifts and Grizzly Gulch

    Mountain Accord and HR 5718 (Congressman Chaffetz, 2016) included an agreed-upon compromise agreement to address Grizzly Gulch and Alta Ski Resort, which Alta Ski Lifts decided to withdraw from in 2018. The Central Wasatch Commission (CWC) respects the decision of Alta Ski Lifts to withdraw from that agreement.

    Since June 2018, the CWC has continuously sought a new solution that would include Alta Ski Lifts in the Central Wasatch National Conservation Recreation Area Act (CWNCRA) and the legislatively authorized land exchanges. Many proposals put forth by stakeholders from Alta Ski Lifts, Save Our Canyons, Wasatch Backcountry Alliance, Friends of Alta, Town of Alta, Salt Lake City Public Utilities, the CWC, and others were aimed at finding a new solution. To date, an agreement has not been achieved that was tenable for all stakeholders involved.

    Throughout these efforts, the parties, including Alta Ski Lifts, agreed in discussion and writing that a fall-back, acceptable alternative would be to remove Alta Ski Lifts from the CWNCRA and allow Alta Ski Lifts to pursue its expansion proposals through existing administrative processes, thereby leaving Alta Ski Lifts harmless in the proposed legislation. Action by the CWC on November 19, 2018 requested the Utah Congressional Delegation and Congress to pursue legislation consistent with the Alta Ski Lifts exclusion from the CWNCRA, and continue to seek a solution to the Alta Ski Lifts-Grizzly Gulch issue. The CWC remains committed to finding a solution with all parties.

    Recent statements from Alta Ski Lifts express a false narrative that the decision to leave Alta Ski Lifts out of the legislation, and subsequently, out of the land exchanges, was motivated by a deliberate desire to punish Alta Ski Lifts. To the contrary, the CWC seeks to respect all parties and seek solutions fair to the parties and to the goal of protecting the Central Wasatch Mountain range for its many wonderful qualities and uses.

    We look forward to ongoing discussions with Alta Ski Lifts, State, local and private interests, our Utah Congressional Delegation, and the many stakeholders that call the Central Wasatch home.

    Sincerely,
    Chris McCandless
    CWC Chair, Sandy City Councilman
    Ralph Becker
    CWC Executive Director

  14. #214
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    Sep 2005
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    Wasatch Back: 7000'
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    Fun up there this morning. Hopefully this will continue and more to rain will be open in the morning
    “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
    ― Milton Friedman

  15. #215
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    Aug 2007
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    So everyone wants to keep the access in Grizzly to the public, even though it's private land. That's the nut of it? I would love to keep that access too and not have it close when the lifts start spinning.

    But if it becomes a lift-serviced area, I'm not gonna whine about it. It's their property, not mine. I don't get why people think they are entitled to this land, or any land they don't own and isn't public. Am I missing something?

  16. #216
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    Sep 2005
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    Fresh Lake City
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    Fuck Alta!
    Mike Maughn is slowing destroying all the "magic" and charm that place once had

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    So everyone wants to keep the access in Grizzly to the public, even though it's private land. That's the nut of it? I would love to keep that access too and not have it close when the lifts start spinning.

    But if it becomes a lift-serviced area, I'm not gonna whine about it. It's their property, not mine. I don't get why people think they are entitled to this land, or any land they don't own and isn't public. Am I missing something?
    Only some of it is private land fwiw. I couldn't care less about skiing in Grizzly but it would be a big shame to make Silver/Wolvy/Patsy/etc de-facto Alta controlled sidecountry (also iirc they want the lift to go up into public land for control purposes). Been up hidden canyon lately?

    BTW and as a thought experiment, imagine if Alta had a permissive, open-arms uphill travel policy like Steamboat. I wonder if/how that would change public perception.

  18. #218
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    I think the concern comes from the fact that Alta does not own Patsy, Twin Lakes, or most of upper Grizzly. It comes from blocking access to public forest service land by restricting access to their private lands, which as fucked as it would be to do in that specific area with its history of use, is within their right. They have the right to restrict access to public lands that are within their lease, so that is where the potential issue comes from, if I'm reading this correctly.

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    "If we can't bring the mountain to the party, let's bring the PARTY to the MOUNTAIN!"

  19. #219
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    What does the green shading indicate on this map?
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    dude freaks me out everytime I see him I flashback to the weird cher mask movie

  20. #220
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    Green is Forest Service land.
    Clear is always private.
    Yellow BLM
    Blue SITLA


    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Last edited by F#*k You Cat; 11-29-2018 at 04:29 PM.
    POWDER SKIER
    COLD RAIN and SNOW

  21. #221
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    a bit misleading there, as the unshaded land south and east of the green iirc is also nfs land...?

    e: from caltopo

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  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    So everyone wants to keep the access in Grizzly to the public, even though it's private land. That's the nut of it? I would love to keep that access too and not have it close when the lifts start spinning.

    But if it becomes a lift-serviced area, I'm not gonna whine about it. It's their property, not mine. I don't get why people think they are entitled to this land, or any land they don't own and isn't public. Am I missing something?
    As others have noted, they don't own anywhere close to all of GG, just the access to it. They thought they could use that leverage to force a billion-dollar public expenditure on a train and/or tunnel. Now that their bluff has been called they're trying to paint themselves as the real victim but no one is buying it. They also want the hypothetical GG lift to extend onto USFS land, so this really isn't a "It's private land, they can do what they want on it" situation.

  23. #223
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    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    As others have noted, they don't own anywhere close to all of GG, just the access to it. They thought they could use that leverage to force a billion-dollar public expenditure on a train and/or tunnel. Now that their bluff has been called they're trying to paint themselves as the real victim but no one is buying it. They also want the hypothetical GG lift to extend onto USFS land, so this really isn't a "It's private land, they can do what they want on it" situation.
    Gotcha. I think I'm missing part of the story though, not saying you or anyone has to spoon-feed me it, but they wanted to exchange GG for a billion dollar project? Must have been more going on behind the scenes.

  24. #224
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    ^ part of the proposed CWC deal was Alta giving GG (and maybe some other small chunks of private land) back to the FS in exchange for FS lands at their base area becoming private + owned by them... also part of that CWC was apparently some connection from BCC<->LCC, and since Alta has backed out of this deal, people are suggesting that really what Alta wanted was the BCC<->LCC link rather than the base area / GG land swap.

    The whole "it's our land, we can do what we like with it" attitude while operating a multi-million dollar business almost entirely on PUBLIC land is rather off-putting, and I think it's a shame that the public seemingly has no say over Alta's continued enjoyment of their FS special use permit privileges.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    Gotcha. I think I'm missing part of the story though, not saying you or anyone has to spoon-feed me it, but they wanted to exchange GG for a billion dollar project? Must have been more going on behind the scenes.
    From the WBCA email:

    "The original Mountain Accord was signed with the basic understanding that Grizzly Gulch, which is mostly owned by Alta Ski Lifts (ASL), would become public land and in exchange ASL would receive high-value national forest lands near their base, culinary water from Salt Lake City Public Utilities for a potential hotel and a taxpayer-funded “transportation solution” in the form of a tunnel or other connection to Big Cottonwood Canyon."

    I've also been told by some little birdies I know who were at the table during Mountain Accord that 1) ASL was extremely keen on a train up LCC as an alternative to a BCC connection; and 2) a tunnel was the only BCC connection they were actually willing to accept.

    LCC train would easily be a (multi?) billion-dollar project. Any possible tunnel route from the Albion parking lot to the BCC road is >2 miles at a likely cost of $500M to >$1B per mile (https://www.citylab.com/transportati...the-us/551408/). That's also just construction costs and doesn't factor in O&M. Remember, UTA operates at a huge overall loss, fares only cover 30% of their operating costs.

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