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Thread: Touring setup

  1. #26
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    I have ions and the Salomon mtn.

    The mtn is hands down better. Lighter, simpler, it doesn't ice like the g3.

    And no pre releases.

    Salomon mtn explore 95 is also a great ski. Or the katana.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using TGR Forums mobile app

  2. #27
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    Like gregL said: go light if MB is your main objective. The ratio of climbing up to skiing down for ski mountaineering is like 10:1 (or worse) so plan accordingly. The fitter you are, the heavier you can go; the better skier you are, the lighter you can go. As others have said, it's kind of an odd objective for a comeback year, esp for someone who doesn't like carbon skis because they're too light.

    Get boots that fit. Frankly I'd prefer something in the 1000-1200g range for straight skimo like MB, but there are some pretty substantial boots in the 1300g-1400g range these days that will drive a ski very well. Scarpa Alien RS would be near the top of my list, sadly it doesn't fit my foot.

    Light options:
    Scarpa Alien RS: https://skimo.co/scarpa-alien-rs
    Fischer Carbon Travers: https://skimo.co/fischer-travers-carbon
    Atomic Backland Carbon: https://skimo.co/fischer-travers-carbon

    Heavier options:
    Tecnica Tour Pro: https://skimo.co/tecnica-zero-g-tour-pro
    Atomic Hawx XTD: https://skimo.co/atomic-hawx-ultra-xtd-130

    Go lightest on the bindings. SSL 2.0 or the new BD Helio 145 (ATK rebranded) would be at the top of my list here, too.

    Skis can be heavier if the bindings are light, but I'd still recommend something around 95-100 underfoot and in the 1300-1500g range.
    https://skimo.co/blizzard-zero-g-95
    https://skimo.co/atomic-backland-95-ski
    https://skimo.co/black-diamond-helio-95
    https://skimo.co/salomon-mtn-explore-95

    Of course, the Black Crows skis are very popular in Cham, too. In addition to the Solis, the Camox Freebird and Navis Freebird are worth a look.

    For crampons, the light options most people I know are using with ski boots these days are the Petzl Irvis hybrid crampon: https://skimo.co/petzl-irvis-hybrid-crampons but they require a little bit of work fine-tuning the adjustment and such. If you want a less complicated solution, https://skimo.co/grivel-haute-route-crampons

    PS. No affiliation with skimo.co (just a nice site for ski mountaineering equipment) and there are many, many more options than what's listed here.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 09-30-2018 at 04:32 AM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  3. #28
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    good info rod, thanks.

  4. #29
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    Thanks auv. This is helpful.

    A little more explanation for you guys, I wouldn't call this a comeback year for me. I moved back to the midwest and live 15 minutes from our local hill. It's claims 450 vert though I think it is closer to 375. I have been rocking the 10 year old gear and have not kept up with the new stuff. After living and skiing out west I have a hard time calling what we do here skiing. The kids are finally coming into the age of out west skiing so I am ready to move into updated gear for myself.

    As for my aversion to carbon, I am just used to heavier skis, super light makes me nervous for downhill performance. I have always been hard on my equipment and just would feel more comfortable with a little more beef. Probably just a mental thing I got to work through.

    Our shops here are the suck. With your guys help I'm trying to come up with my gear list now so I can walk into a shop out west and get dialed in easily.

    As for the MB trip, we will be skiing for 7 days in Chamonix only 2 of which are dedicated to MB. While I get lightest is best for MB I am willing to compromise a bit for a setup that would work for Colorado/Utah/Wyoming backcountry etc when I get back home.

  5. #30
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    Makes sense. I think my post above still mostly applies, but maybe err on the heavier side of the ski and boot options I listed. The Mtn Explore 95 and the Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro or Atomic Hawx XTD seem like a good combo, if one of those options fits your foot.

    I do think the best place to save weight is the bindings. UL bindings will ski as well as any other pin binding, but not quite as well as an alpine-heel binding like the Kingpin, Tecton, or Shift. No adjustability, but if you only have one pair of tech-compatible touring boots, you won't care anyway.

    https://skimo.co/black-diamond-helio-145
    https://skimo.co/dynafit-superlite-2-bindings (don't add the brakes)

    If you're harder on gear, maybe consider speed radical toes and then superlight heels, available from skimo:

    https://skimo.co/dynafit-binding-toes
    https://skimo.co/dynafit-binding-heels
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  6. #31
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    Dec 2003
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    There's a group of you going to do this MB summit ski?

    What are they all skiing? Not what particular ski but are they lycra clad rando racers or reverse camber baggy pant side country "chargers"

    Is there a nominal leader or mentor to the group.. what's their opinion?

    Climbing, rope, self arrest, glacier travel and crevasse rescue experience? Not all "big mountains" are big mountains.

    Route? Guide selected? You talked to them yet?

    All due respect to your goal which sounds like a worthy and important one... but there are a ton of other questions before which particular ski/boot/binding to replace your old gotama/freeride set up that you should be asking.
    Last edited by PNWbrit; 09-30-2018 at 10:21 AM.
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    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    The mtn is hands down better. Lighter, simpler, it doesn't ice like the g3.]
    Agree that the Salomon MTN/Atomic Backland Tech is the shit. Not as ultralight as the ATK or SSL2, but three real climbing level options, 30mm fore/aft adjustability, and vertical release value options (the "Expert" spring is burly and I find the fixed SSL2 fixed RV underwhelming).

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Agree that the Salomon MTN/Atomic Backland Tech is the shit. Not as ultralight as the ATK or SSL2, but three real climbing level options, 30mm fore/aft adjustability, and vertical release value options (the "Expert" spring is burly and I find the fixed SSL2 fixed RV underwhelming).
    It's the best of the simple tech bindings existing. By best - I mean most reliable

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    It's the best of the simple tech bindings existing. By best - I mean most reliable
    Speaking as a telemarker who has never skied AT bindings, my "new to tech bindings" wife loves the Salomon MTNs. Easy in/out, light weight, metal. Seems like a lot of win to me, for touring. I personally would probably break the hell out of those if skiing lifts. My wife is mellow yellow though.

  10. #35
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    If you don't expect hard ice, the Grivel Race 2.0 cramps are super nice and fit the Alien RS really well (the lightweight options from CAMP and BD did not).
    https://skimo.co/grivel-ski-race-crampons

    Not sure if Grivel's anti-balling plates fit the alum toe yet, looking into it.

  11. #36
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    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by easyrdr View Post

    As for my aversion to carbon, I am just used to heavier skis, super light makes me nervous for downhill performance. I have always been hard on my equipment and just would feel more comfortable with a little more beef. Probably just a mental thing I got to work through.
    auvgeek has given some great advice in this thread. Of the skis on his list, both the MTN 95 and Navis Freebird are lightish and ski extremely well. If I was buying one ski to take to Chamonix and also use back home it would be the Navis FB. I haven't skied the Solis but the regular route on MB isn't particularly steep so wouldn't qualify as the sort of terrain it is being marketed for, more importantly 1900+g is very heavy for a touring ski - which would rule it out for me. The advice to go lightweight on the bindings is spot on. If you're hard on gear (as I am) you might choose to go with one of the slightly less lightweight options for the wider mounting pattern (Salmon / Atomic MTN or maybe one of the new offerings from Marker or G3). I've never had an issue with any of the lightweight bindings (skitrab gara, SL2.0, ATK) per se but have on occasion had issues with the screws pulling

  12. #37
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    Not all crampons fit all boots. Try them on, or at least confirm that the combo has worked for someone else who knows what's up.

    I'd advise away from an ultralight setup unless your friends are rocking similar gear. It takes getting used to. I actually love me a good ultralight setup, but if I were to bring one pair for your trip I'd go sturdier (around 1800g/ski). If you're used to Fristchis a lighter binding (which I strongly prefer) will probably work, but Kingpins (which have had durability issues), Tectons, or Shifts (which are new) might be worth the weight if you're going to use this pair as an inbounds setup in the future. There is no single right answer, really. And they'll all ski better than Freerides.

  13. #38
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    Thanks for all the help fellas. All good advice. Super pumped to go get set up. Looking forward to getting out on them there hills.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by EpicSteeze View Post
    I've never had an issue with any of the lightweight bindings (skitrab gara, SL2.0, ATK) per se but have on occasion had issues with the screws pulling
    Wouldn't this be an issue of the skis' strength, not the bindings?

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Wouldn't this be an issue of the skis' strength, not the bindings?
    That and (even moreso) mounting method. I figured he was getting at the lack of elasticity in most lightweight tech binding toes, which can result in greater loads at the screw/ski interface.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    That and (even moreso) mounting method. I figured he was getting at the lack of elasticity in most lightweight tech binding toes, which can result in greater loads at the screw/ski interface.
    Yes, this is what I was getting at. Ski width / construction and mounting method (Iíve had good results helicoiling toe piece holes) are definitely important factors. For skis >100mm Iíve come to think itís worth a small weight penalty for a wider mount pattern - YMMV... I also know other people who donít find it necessary

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    That and (even moreso) mounting method.
    Best practices for the mount and a .2mm or .3mm Titanal sheet in the mount area can't hurt!

    If in doubt as to core density or reinforcing layers, coring out a bell shaped cavity with an ice pick and filling it with epoxy (old timers will recognize the Hexcel mounting methodology) might save you some grief in the long term.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    If in doubt as to core density or reinforcing layers, coring out a bell shaped cavity with an ice pick and filling it with epoxy (old timers will recognize the Hexcel mounting methodology) might save you some grief in the long term.
    Yup. Turn upside down to set.

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicSteeze View Post
    I’ve had good results helicoiling toe piece holes
    I helicoil all my tech toes

  19. #44
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    I really doubt bindings pull from lateral forces so mount pattern width does not matter.

    Sent from my DROID Turbo using Tapatalk

  20. #45
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    i agree tech toes mostly pull from backseat driving but the torque while skinning can be significant in terms of starting the loosening.

  21. #46
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    What's the deal on the Helio 145s? I understand they're rebranded ATKs - what's the ATK equivalent? I'm sure I can dig up some info on the ATK version.

    With 3 risers @300g seems like a good option in superlight category.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by North View Post
    - what's the ATK equivalent? I'm sure I can dig up some info on the ATK version.
    It's based on the ATK Trofeo series, also sold as the Hagan Ultra. Pay no attention to the weights on REI's website that say 145 grams per pair.

  23. #48
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    I would also go LIGHT!
    The skiing off Mont Blanc seems mellow. Maybe some Movement Alp Tracks (short radius but great construction with a lot of pop but less chatter than other carbons) or other (less pricey) skis in that class. I am happy with my IONs but would also look into ATK, they gained a great reputation.

  24. #49
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    the freeraider 14 is an exceptional binding. I highly recommend it.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    hadn't seen that... very intriguing ski
    Not much info out there about this ski, and I've got 4 days on it now (hooray cheap from T-P.com!) so: LOVE it so far. Always wanted a "touring OG legend pro with a bit more tip rocker" and this fit the specs bill pretty closely. The 173 weighs 1750g per ski on my scale. 25m radius. Very low camber (fuck yeah!).

    Super predictable, stable, balanced, intuitive. Really easy to either set a hard edge or feather around. Have only really had it in softer snow, so can't speak to edging coolie ice or anything yet. It's not a carbon rattle trap, but it's also not light for it's platform, which is A OK with me. The tip is stupid, but so it Moment's and it doesn't seem to impact anything negatively yet.

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