Winter Backcountry Course Advice: NOLS vs. Other

[jacob_dbu]

Hey all, so this winter during my school break, I'm looking to gain a lot of experience with winter camping, backcountry skiing, avalanche conditions, snow science, etc. Basically, I want to maximize my learning during this time. I have some moderate backcountry experience from last winter, including one guided introductory 2-day course (in the Wasatch) which was great and included a smattering of topics. I will be with a friend who has a similar experience level.

This winter I want to continue learning, including taking Avy 1, winter camping, and more. Unfortunately, this sort of experience requires mentorship which is hard to come by not living in/near the mountains. I want to put together a trip plan between +/- January 1-20th that involves both guided and unguided overnight travel in the backcountry. I have winter camping gear (gear whoring...) and I'm sure I could take a regular Avy 1 plus a guided day or two, and then go out there with a very conservative plan and be ok, but I don't think this would be the best way to maximize my learning experience.

A clear option is the two week NOLS course: https://www.nols.edu/en/coursefinder...try-skiing-WSC. It includes winter camping, avy 1, and a significant amount of time in the backcountry.

Questions:

1. What are people's thoughts on the NOLS course?

I don't want the backcountry skills/skiing and snow learning to be neutered in favor of "leadership skills". It seems like a great bang-for-buck given the amount of guided time and including Avy 1.

2. Are the Tetons the optimal location during the "early-ish" season?

It seems the answer is "yes" because it is both easily accessible by car (dirtbagging), and likely to have the best snow conditions. Other suggestions are welcome.

3. Would I be better off trying to put together a custom trip for my friend and I?

I have no experience with this. Custom trips are expensive and it seems that it would be more suitable if I were able to develop some sort of relationships in a mentor/mentee type way, though I have no experience with how that actually develops in real life. I have a small bit of camaraderie with the guides who took me on my Wasatch day trips, and one even mentioned reaching out to her if I wanted to gain more experience, but I feel that it would be hard to develop any sort of lasting mentorship not being local to any area.

[thefortrees]

Consider a multi night hut/yurt trip. I took a ski mountaineering course @ Beartooth Powder Guides in Cooke City last April. Ben (owner) is a great dude and they have kick ass terrain. He’s got a hands off style of teaching - let’s students make decisions - sounds like the type of mentor you’re looking for.

https://www.beartoothpowder.com/bear...anche-level-1/

Could also look into what some of the PNW guiding ops offer as far as trips. Lots of options there. I did a multi night course with Mountain Madness, that focused on glacier travel, climbing Mt Baker a couple years ago.

You can always inquire about custom trips too.

Keep me posted on your plan. I’m always down to learn new skills and would be willing to join a course with you if timing, location, and focus area works out.

[Djongo Unchained]

In January, the Tetons rarely fail to have enough snow. Check that off of your list of concerns.

[anotherVTskibum]

Beartooth Mountain Guides (based out of Red Lodge) also offer guiding services in the Cooke City area; I suspect either they or Beartooth Powder Guides would be happy to set up something that met your needs. I would suggest confirming with either outfit that the time window you're working with was likely to have enough snow. I think the answer is yes, but I'm more familiar with the Red Lodge side of the mountains, where the answer would be "I wouldn't plan on it."

If I were working with a multi-week window, I'd try to do a few days of instruction at the outset, spend a few days trying to apply it, and then a couple more days with guiding and instruction (possibly with a floating rest day on the worst weather day in the middle, too). Even a standard level-one avy class provides a lot of info, and it's very difficult to actually assimilate it without spending some time in the mountains at your own speed afterwards.

[knowsam]

Does it have to be in the US? If not, check out https://yamnuska.com/ in Canada. They pretty much dominate the industry in the Canadian Rockies and have some rock star guides. Give them a call and explain what you want, I bet they have some suggestions and you might find your dollar goes pretty far in Canada.

[RootSkier]

I did a NOLS semester in the stone age that included a 14-day backcountry skiing section. I think it is a super worthwhile program, and it actually seems like quite a good value for everything you get.

My semester was in lieu of a college semester and it was cheaper and I got the same number of credits, so my calculus was totally different (plus I was 18), but still, it was a damn good experience. The one downside is that you will probably not be skiing any gnarly lines, though I could be wrong about how the backcountry skiing-focused trips run compared to when they are part of a semester.

[californiagrown]

You know what sounds like a horrible idea? Spending all day in the BC getting wet, cold and working super hard... and then going back to your cramped cold AF car at t he trailhead and shivering yourself into kind of sleep... especially frigid in early January in the tetons/montana.

[bodywhomper]

It sounds like a rad experience. I hate pulling sleds. I have a few friends that did winter NOLS courses. None regretted it. None have taken on that type of trip again, but all continue to backcountry ski, including multi-day trips.

[covert]

I don't want the backcountry skills/skiing and snow learning to be neutered in favor of "leadership skills".

I would suggest you re-think that statement. Which leadership skills do you believe are not relevant to bc skiing? Communication? Planning? Conflict resolution? Teamwork? That being said, I know little about NOLS curricula, so maybe they are nut hackers.

[GeezerSteve]

NOLS is a good thing. If you have the opportunity, do it. A couple of my regular mountain travel buds did NOLS back in the 1970s. Both are very competent mountaineers and speak fondly of their NOLS experiences. One of them put his son in a NOLS course a few years ago, and he has become a solid alpinist. Based on his accounts, his NOLS training covered the full range of basic mountaineering skills and wilderness survival skills.

ETA: Another bud took one of the earliest NOLS courses led by NOLS founder Paul Petzoldt. My bud appears as a student in this 1969 documentary. He describes his NOLS course as one of best experiences of his life.

[RootSkier]

NOLS is a good thing. If you have the opportunity, do it. A couple of my regular mountain travel buds did NOLS back in the 1970s. Both are very competent mountaineers and speak fondly of their NOLS experiences. One of them put his son NOLS a few years ago, and he has become a solid alpinist. Based on his accounts, his NOLS training covered the full range of basic mountaineering skills and wilderness survival skills.

ETA: Another bud took one of the earliest NOLS courses led by NOLS founder Paul Petzoldt. My bud appears as a student in this 1969 documentary. He describes his NOLS course as one of best experiences of his life.

Chiming in again to fully endorse. NOLS was, by far, the best educational experience of my life. I learned so much that remains valuable.

My father in law is really good friends with an instructor from the very first course. I have skied and drank beers with him multiple times, his stories are amazing.

[ski-wpk]

Strongly endorsing NOLS as well. Granted my month in the Winds was 26 years ago but a defining experience for sure, and top notch organization and instruction. My wife did a 2-week course 6 years ago and also loved it.

[turbomike15]

I graduated from the course you speak of 7 years ago. Snow was great, sleeping in a quinzee is something that you'll remember, and by the end of the week hut trips will sound easy/fun. Don't expect super gnar skiing as the instructors keep stuff pretty mellow.

I won't do it again, but I don't regret doing it.

[cat in january]

Enjoy the skiing, but don't go expecting epic descents-not the focus of the course.

Look for a wilderness first aid course and cpr near your school if you don't have them yet.

My son did a nols course in Alaska and it was an excellent experience for him.

[river59]

Here's yet another +1 for NOLS. Don't let the leadership part of the acronym scare you off. "Leading" a group with mixed levels of experience opens you up to valuable critiques that you might not hear in a smaller group.

[Jacobmandell]

I did a NOLS winter camping course six years ago as part of a semester course. It was a great experience BUT it is very dependent on who's with you on the course. If most folks are new to winter camping its more of a survival trip. NOLS is also very leadership oriented (which I think is great) but sounds less of what your looking for. I'd go with a guiding outfit that is more hard skills specific.