The Vail and Alterra Duopoly - Which remaining Indy mountains sell?

**nickwm21** · 09-19-2018, 12:37 PM

With the creation of Alterra, Vail purchase of Whistler, this summers PNW invasion by both parties... it seems like we are headed to a duopoly quick. Most resorts in California, Colorado and the EC are already part of the cartel.

Interested in what the collective thinks about the remaining independent mountains...
Who sells out next?
Who is never going to sell out?

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**Blackbeard** · 09-19-2018, 01:24 PM

Predicting Sun Valley/Snowbasin are sold off by the Holding Family to Vail

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**AlpineKevin** · 09-19-2018, 01:27 PM

How has this duopoly not benefitted consumers though? You can argue the merits of specific actions big corporations are doing owning these ski resorts with regard to the land and trying to expand, but with regards to the consumer instead of everyone having a season pass to one resort, now everyone has a season pass for the same price to a dozen resorts.

**muted** · 09-19-2018, 01:28 PM

Big Sky is considering offers (total rumor at this point) and Bridger Bowl, currently as a successful non-profit, will never sell their hill.

**El Chupacabra** · 09-19-2018, 02:08 PM

Mt Rose was for sale by the family owners, but I heard it was for some giant amount of money. They pulled it off the market and the public statement was that they decided to keep it. Money talks though... So who knows what will happen.

**S_jenks** · 09-19-2018, 02:17 PM

Most of the big guys have already been swallowed up.

My guess is they will go after feeder hills in flyover country. They want to get more people hooked on the annual ski-vacation splurge, and deals through local hills seem like a way to feed the machine (ex: Vail purchasing Afton Alps, MN in 2012).

**RYAN13** · 09-19-2018, 02:20 PM

Anyone know what POWDR's strategy for growth/ long term direction is? As a smaller conglomerate, I can't imagine they can compete with Alterra/Vail.

I've been hoping that Alterra picks up POWDR properties, or at least Bachelor specifically.

**Trefin** · 09-19-2018, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Blackbeard

Predicting Sun Valley/Snowbasin are sold off by the Holding Family to Vail

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Only way I could see it happen is if vail makes an irresponsible offer for sun valley in like 5 years. I doubt vail would even want snowbasin due to no lodging onsite.

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**byates1** · 09-19-2018, 10:01 PM

mad river

rota run

ski bama

huh

**byates1** · 09-19-2018, 10:17 PM

http://www.cloudmont.com/conditions.html

i'm totally skiing that shit.

**skiitsbetter** · 09-20-2018, 09:51 AM

All of Canada except Whistler. But still lots on 5 or 7 days Epic/Ikon. So all of the gangbanging of Epic/Ikon without the cheap multi area pass benefits...

**eldereldo** · 09-20-2018, 10:33 AM

Doubt any of them would want any of the Banff/Jasper resorts, no chance of real estate development. Member agreements for pass holders are as far as that will ever go. No idea on Eastern areas, but the rest of the BC areas after Whistler are to far from major city’s, with poor access to be of interest. Exception might be one of the Vancouver North Shore areas, but can’t see those being a destination draw.

**SKIP IN7RO** · 09-20-2018, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by byates1

http://www.cloudmont.com/conditions.html

i'm totally skiing that shit.

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**skiracer88_00** · 09-20-2018, 12:25 PM

I predict A Basin drops vail after this season and partners with Ikon. Al stated in his blog last year that there was only one more season on the contract with Vail, and I don't know why he would state that on the blog unless there were talks of severing ties at the end of the current contract. http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/20...ikon-pass.html

I predict that Loveland will stay independent for the foreseeable future. It is a pet project for a family that makes their real money elsewhere...they seem to love their ski area and have no reason to sell.

**Danno** · 09-20-2018, 12:42 PM

I doubt ABasin drops VR; wouldn't that mean they lose overflow parking at Keystone?

**doebedoe** · 09-20-2018, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by skiracer88_00

I predict A Basin drops vail after this season and partners with Ikon. Al stated in his blog last year that there was only one more season on the contract with Vail, and I don't know why he would state that on the blog unless there were talks of severing ties at the end of the current contract. http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/20...ikon-pass.html

I predict that Loveland will stay independent for the foreseeable future. It is a pet project for a family that makes their real money elsewhere...they seem to love their ski area and have no reason to sell.

I hope you're right about Loveland.

No idea about Abasin. The Vail teet has been good to them. Tons of capital improvements that no doubt depended on Vails dime. In my dream world, they go back to being independent and Luv / Abasin give each other 3 free days at the other.

**Danno** · 09-20-2018, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by skiracer88_00

I predict A Basin drops vail after this season and partners with Ikon. Al stated in his blog last year that there was only one more season on the contract with Vail, and I don't know why he would state that on the blog unless there were talks of severing ties at the end of the current contract. http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/20...ikon-pass.html

FWIW, the simple fact that he stated "we are committed to our Vail Resorts relationship through the 2018-19 ski season" is not the same as stating that ABasin is a free agent for beyond 2019. That might be the case, I have no idea, but that statement can be read different ways. For example, perhaps the contract has an off-ramp provision that could allow them to be independent but it might involve conditions, it might be something different than "contract ends after Spring 2019". Again, I have no idea, but if this blog statement is all you have, we really don't know the details.

**toast2266** · 09-20-2018, 12:54 PM

Rumor has it that Whitefish was courting buyers a few years ago, but it never came together. Supposedly the owner re-structured his portfolio (he owns a bunch of stuff; ski resorts, hockey teams, etc.), and isn't looking to sell at the moment. But I imagine that he'd be willing to sell if the right offer come down the line, and I'm not sure that'd necessarily be a bad thing.

**summit** · 09-20-2018, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I doubt ABasin drops VR; wouldn't that mean they lose overflow parking at Keystone?

They lose $10/day revenue Epic skiers too.

I predict (dream) Abasin partners with Loveland woooooo!

**The SnowShow** · 09-20-2018, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by skiracer88_00

I predict A Basin drops vail after this season and partners with Ikon. Al stated in his blog last year that there was only one more season on the contract with Vail, and I don't know why he would state that on the blog unless there were talks of severing ties at the end of the current contract. http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/20...ikon-pass.html

I predict that Loveland will stay independent for the foreseeable future. It is a pet project for a family that makes their real money elsewhere...they seem to love their ski area and have no reason to sell.

They may have no reason to sell but money talks.

If ABasin goes with Ikon, so will I. That’s my tipping point.

**Name Redacted** · 09-20-2018, 01:43 PM

Abasin really has no reason to switch to Ikon. With their new expansion and f&b improvements I doubt they’d take a chance on switching over but I have no clue about Dundee’s financial health either. I’m sure they’d want to show some gains from the improvements on paper before selling to get a higher price. Plus selling to Alterra could put a kink in the Luv>Basin>Keystone>Breck interconnect gondola plan.

**grskier** · 09-20-2018, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

They lose $10/day revenue Epic skiers too.

I predict (dream) Abasin partners with Loveland woooooo!

Nah... get them on our program... then you have a 2 hour drive to the goods on a slightly different storm path.

**Djongo Unchained** · 09-20-2018, 03:11 PM

If/when Teton vill becomes the biggestholdout, then the bidding war will commence between the big 2. Kemmerer's are in no hurry.

**MyNameIsAugustWest** · 09-20-2018, 03:12 PM

Not sure that most EC resorts are in the duopoly. Yes, Stowe, Okemo, and Sunapee are now VR and Tremblant is Alterra but many big guns like Killington, Stratton, Sunday River, Jay, Sugarloaf, Loon, Sugarbush, MRG, Cannon, Waterville Valley & Smugglers Notch are not. Will some of them sell out? Rumor has it that Jay will go next summer as it gets out from under the EB-5 scandal but to whom? Realistically, Alterra needs another area on the EC but Jay is not easily accessible (nor is Tremblant) so I'm not sure that would be a smart move on their part.

Full disclosure, I bought an Epic pass this year because they offered me one for $99 (retired military) but I have no allegiance to them. I will still ski 50+ days at Magic this year.