Reverse camber for kiddo

**alias_rice** · 09-18-2018, 02:17 PM

My 7 year old needs new skis this year, and I found a really good deal on some Mantra Jr's, but I am not sold on putting a kid that young on a pair of fully rockered skis. Anyone have any opinions on the matter? My main goal is to keep him loving it and learning proper technique.

**auvgeek** · 09-18-2018, 02:23 PM

Personally, I'd get him something with some camber so he learns how to load a ski and carve turns. You gotta learn the basics. Full rocker means skidding/slarving/smearing turns -- fine skills to have for sure but after you learn how to properly load a ski.

Just my opinion and I don't have kids.

**Supermoon** · 09-18-2018, 02:31 PM

Something like a Mantra Jr or a YLE Coyote is a pretty good next-step if your kid is ready to get off trail. They aren't full rocker, but rocker/camber combo with traditional sidecut, right? Lots of 7 year olds are good enough to have something like that, depending on their skill and where they will ski. Might still want it to be a quiver ski with a camber ski for low days to work on carving technique and not give them lazy habits like us old farts on rocker.

**Core Shot** · 09-18-2018, 05:29 PM

Do it.

They actually carve if you lay them on edge. Never had an instructor tell me it’s a bad ski.
Unless your kid is a race team carver, it’s the very best youth ski if you want your kids to ski fresh snow.
It is great in pow or crud, and carves soft snow.
Ice, not so much.

My kids have been on them from about 7 until 13 now
It’s not as fat or floaty or stiff as the adult mantra.
They used to call it gotama Jr. Almost the same ski for 10 years.
If Jr has been on skinny carvers, you will send him to the next level with this ski.

Wouldn’t call it reverse. Yes, no camber, yes early rise. But not full banana like tgr pow skis

Early rise helps them like us. It’s there in pow. More float, less tip dive. When you are on hardpack, it’s a shorter ski but still carves.
My kids sucked on skinny skis in pow. Instant smiles and pow skiers with mantra Jr.

**lucknau** · 09-18-2018, 05:39 PM

I agree and recommend.

My son has been skiing on a similar profile for the past two years. I can confirm that it's not straight up reverse camber, but rocker/flat/rocker.

I tried to size up and switched him to a cambered ski last year and he hayyyted it. We're off piste most of the time, and the camber just equated to tip dive for him in any kind of fresh snow.

**3PinGrin** · 09-18-2018, 06:14 PM

Sure. Load him up with pussy and cigs too though, he might as well get after it early.

**Core Shot** · 09-18-2018, 06:23 PM

They aren’t pivoting and slarving ya douche.
I hope you still 3 pin. Cables are cheating. So are skis over 70mm

It’s a great mid fat alll mountain ski for kids.
And the price is right.

**alias_rice** · 09-18-2018, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by 3PinGrin

Sure. Load him up with pussy and cigs too though, he might as well get after it early.

Done and done!

**auvgeek** · 09-18-2018, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by lucknau

I tried to size up and switched him to a cambered ski last year and he hayyyted it. We're off piste most of the time, and the camber just equated to tip dive for him in any kind of fresh snow.

To me, this is the biggest argument against them posted yet. IMO, if you can't have fun on a ski with some camber in all conditions, you just don't have the fundamentals. Tons of vaunted pow skis have some camber underfoot: Protest, Billy Goat, etc.

**lucknau** · 09-18-2018, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

To me, this is the biggest argument against posted yet. IMO, if you can't handle a ski with some camber in all conditions, you don't have the fundamentals. Tons of pow skis have some camber underfoot.

Yeah.

I hear that argument all the time, but I haven't heard a good detailed explanation as to what that means, or how many millimeters of camber a kid has to learn on to satisfy the requirement. Also, kids skis, a lot of them of them are too stiff for the weight of the skier, which is what makes them so frustrating in a foot or more of powder when cambered.

Saw your edit. And yes, you're right. Some camber, but not a shit ton of camber. They're more or less flat, and really easy to decamber. That I'm fine with, and the skis above might even have a mm of camber, but stiff and short with 4mm suck for a little kid to ski off piste.

**Core Shot** · 09-18-2018, 07:14 PM

The kid is 7. Maybe he should have maximum fun, not boot camp.

If your kid at that age skis pow alongside you, it’s the best day of both of your lives. Been there. Still remember that.

The year before, on skinny camber skis, it was tears and frustration.

Maybe all you haters need to find some vr17 or hart javelins and master the jet powder turn.

**3PinGrin** · 09-18-2018, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

They aren’t pivoting and slarving ya douche.
I hope you still 3 pin. Cables are cheating. So are skis over 70mm

It’s a great mid fat alll mountain ski for kids.
And the price is right.

Lighten up francis, it was a joke.

**3PinGrin** · 09-18-2018, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by alias_rice

Done and done!

Glad you saw the humor. I'm sure he will have a great time as long as it's not hardpack all the time.

**auvgeek** · 09-18-2018, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by lucknau

Yeah.

I hear that argument all the time, but I haven't heard a good detailed explanation as to what that means, or how many millimeters of camber a kid has to learn on to satisfy the requirement. Also, kids skis, a lot of them of them are too stiff for the weight of the skier, which is what makes them so frustrating in a foot or more of powder when cambered.

Saw your edit. And yes, you're right. Some camber, but not a shit ton of camber. They're more or less flat, and really easy to decamber. That I'm fine with, and the skis above might even have a mm of camber, but stiff and short with 4mm suck for a little kid to ski off piste.

I'm just saying 1-4 mm of camber is better than flat or full reverse for learning how to load up the ski in turns. It has to do with weighting and unweighting the ski at the right time in the turn -- the sensation of which is totally different on flat or reverse camber skis.

As far as it being "boot camp," that's a little extreme. Plenty of fun skis with some camber that ski pow and offpiste conditions just fine. The OP asked and I answered with my opinion.

FWIW, my wife taught professionally full time for several years (level 3 PSIA), and I just asked what she thought of flat or full reverse camber skis for a 7 yo kid: "Are these kids who want to learn to ski correctly or what? Yeah, I don't really think it's great, but they also don't have to be on a narrow GS ski either like some PSIA dweebs say. Just get something with a little camber and sidecut, not too stiff, with a little tip rocker. It's not too hard, I could pick 'em out if we had a small. (at which point we laughed at the absurdity of us trying to raise a child)" Again, YMMV. Just another opinion.

**alias_rice** · 09-18-2018, 08:23 PM

Should have realized the answer was multiple skis! I guess it actually makes sense to have a more traditional ski for the hardpack and lesson days, and Mantra's for soft days cruising with the old man.

**bodywhomper** · 09-18-2018, 11:11 PM

Lots of cheapish used gotama jrs our there retired from rental fleets.

**Hood26** · 09-19-2018, 07:44 AM

Manta’s are on the short list for my 9 yo’s replacemt for last year’s Rossi Experience (120cm). Thanks for the 411 from those who have had them.

A quick side note, I have found a lot of kids skis, even used at swaps, to be railed.

**dcpnz** · 09-19-2018, 08:04 AM

Put my kids on jr gotamas about that age. Thankfully they had quivers cos they didn't like them all that much and preferred to be on other, cambered skis in all but the deepest softest days irrespective of what terrain they were skiiing.
I happen to think something like the enforcer s and team cochise are much better skis for juniors but they harder to find for cheap and don't go shorter than 140.

Edit: I think one issue with full rocker for kids is length. Feel like ice skates on the firm but you can't really size up like we might (10cm jumps in volkl iirc) because the kids can't handle it.

**Bluebird** · 09-19-2018, 08:46 AM

They are a great all around ski for the kiddos. I have a full line up 108-138 for my kids. As mentioned at one point they were gotoma jr's but the same basic ski. They rocked in AK pow/super wet chunk and also now rock on Mad River Glen hardpack/ice. If/when they do any racing you will want something different but otherwise I highly recommend for all conditions.

**Dantheman** · 09-19-2018, 09:05 AM

alias - What size are you considering and how tall is your kid? My son finished last season on 112s so considering the rocker the 118s seem too short, but it also feels like a big jump to the 128s. Then again, rocker, so maybe not.

Originally Posted by Core Shot

Do it.

They actually carve if you lay them on edge.

I haven't skied the adult Mantra, but the rocker profile looks similar to my Sickles and those things rail hardpack if you put them on edge.

**Olympus** · 09-19-2018, 09:16 AM

I dont recommend reverse camber as an only ski. For most days I'd say camber is more appropriate for development of a young skier. Just my personal opinion.

However, I have two boys... so I kept my eyes out and bought about every jr size for sub $60 on classifieds & 2hand shops etc... both full camber and reverse, like the gotama/mantra/kuro.

I put my kids on rev-cam when the snow is soft and they liked them fine...

when the kids are younger ages like 2 to 10... it's mostly that they, dont complain, vs a real opinion. If your kids are like mine... when they are young... they will simply ski what you put on their feet and they will make it work. At the young ages they dont really know, or care. My older boy often asked for them on regular days to for skiing the trees. He was about 9 before he had any opinion on gear. at the time and he liked the pivot, skate feel in trees where the kids smooth out bobsled tracks thru sections of gentle sloped trees.

I've always found my neighbors and local friends in line to pick up my kids old skis for what I paid... so I don't mind to bank a couple skis for the boys to try and see it they can tell a difference. They won't know if they dont try & Its probably more for my curiosity vs their curiosity.

Sent from my SM-N950U using TGR Forums mobile app

**jesski** · 09-19-2018, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

FWIW, my wife taught professionally full time for several years (level 3 PSIA), and I just asked what she thought of flat or full reverse camber skis for a 7 yo kid: "Are these kids who want to learn to ski correctly or what? Yeah, I don't really think it's great, but they also don't have to be on a narrow GS ski either like some PSIA dweebs say. Just get something with a little camber and sidecut, not too stiff, with a little tip rocker. It's not too hard, I could pick 'em out if we had a small. (at which point we laughed at the absurdity of us trying to raise a child)" Again, YMMV. Just another opinion.

Ruh-roh. I better be careful about my off-the-cuff responses to you while I load the washing machine. They could end up on the internets at any time!!

**alias_rice** · 09-19-2018, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

alias - What size are you considering and how tall is your kid? My son finished last season on 112s so considering the rocker the 118s seem too short, but it also feels like a big jump to the 128s. Then again, rocker, so maybe not.

I haven't skied the adult Mantra, but the rocker profile looks similar to my Sickles and those things rail hardpack if you put them on edge.

First things first, Rossi should start selling Sickles again.

The boy is 49 inches and I was thinking the 118 would probably be on the money. Wouldn’t want to go any bigger. He was on 102’s at the end of last year and they worked well and he started the year at 46 inches.

**Dantheman** · 09-19-2018, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by alias_rice

First things first, Rossi should start selling Sickles again.

QFT, including kid sizes. Cool, 128s seem like the call then.

**Bandit Man** · 09-19-2018, 10:27 AM

My son was on normal camber, flat tail skis when he was really young. Then moved up to twin tips so he could have looser tails in deep snow. Then I moved him over to slight reverse camber (138 Gotama Jr's). He prefers skiing offpiste and we get lots of dense, deep snow so it was a no brainer for us. He also skied 143 Shiro Jr's when he got big enough. I got him a pair of 156 Volkl One's a few years back for really deep days.

He is a total snow snob and prefers soft snow. The kid rips in the trees and skis soft variable better than most adults on the hill. I'm putting him back on some normal camber skis this year and we will see if he regresses and needs to learn how to really drive a ski again. Frankly, it's all been fun and he loves the sport. He's not a racer, but definitely a freeski ripper. Put them on gear they will have fun on and enjoy the time together. They grow up way to fast to worry about the rest of it.