Possible move to Burlington, VT area looking for BETA.

[DBdude]

Like the good call on CVU high school. Looks quite good too. Man, 2% property tax ($400k house at $8k annually), 6% sales tax, a quite healthy income tax, 20%+ federal, FICA pushing 5%, VT is quite good with taxing their citizens. No wonder they are having a difficult time with jobs/business. Am I missing something? Are people working for 55 cents on the dollar? Looks like BVT ain't a cheap place to live either....but the mountains, lakes, skiing, fishing, hiking, biking....

if you live outside of town the prices go down

there are really nice places to live in the CVU school district

[DBdude]

Moving to VT sounds great, and it is pretty fucking sweet. But the reality of living there, no fucking way. The Granite State is the place to be. It just is. VT has coddled generations of, section 8, never worked, knocked up at 16, junkies etc... real Vermont is a troubling place.

says the guy whose state has the worst opiate problem in the NE because there are no services

i am not a vt fan boy.

[buttahflake]

Damn straight, we don’t coddle junkies here, they could all die today and it wouldn’t effect me in the slightest. If you’re dumb enough to be buying powders and pills from scumbags, you roll the dice.

[Benny Profane]

Like the good call on CVU high school. Looks quite good too. Man, 2% property tax ($400k house at $8k annually), 6% sales tax, a quite healthy income tax, 20%+ federal, FICA pushing 5%, VT is quite good with taxing their citizens. No wonder they are having a difficult time with jobs/business. Am I missing something? Are people working for 55 cents on the dollar? Looks like BVT ain't a cheap place to live either....but the mountains, lakes, skiing, fishing, hiking, biking....

You forgot the cost of energy. It's a really cold place, with a long winter, which means a lot of oil or gas to keep warm, another form of tax, to individuals and businesses.

Yes, but, the outside fun......

[Boreas]

Definitely wish I knew the s/c b/c better up there but the little I do (WW and HH) is fantastic when it is in. I only made it up there 2x last year and one of those was a crustfest but should have more time to explore CB and some of the lines off the CT this year.

Fussy, a bit of my historical knowledge, which is probably mostly true. back in ‘97 at my grandfathers 75th I was talking to one of his skier friends who was 85 and he mentioned an old trail a few made back in the day that was a great weekend loop. They’d take more or less what is now the road and some would head down another trail that lasted into the 90’s to Rte 2 the others would go up and over and complete the loop and they’d be picked up off LR. We skied the trail that winter taking the ridge almost to Rte 2, and the following summer thinned a few spots just off the ridge. it was open with a bit of schwacking and we found signs of cuts closer to the ridge but nothing like it is now.

CB, has been around for quite some time mid 80’s or so. The original lines were just tiny little dips in and then a traverse. More ore less the steps you could do quick with kick wax on your skis and still keep speed. I’m sure more people ventured deeper down. I know pre 2000 we found faded tagging down to LR, but it was one hell of a slog from the bench to the road. CB was more about “we’ll im here might as well jump in for a taste,” not the yo-yos you find now


The cliffy stuff off the ridge back to Bolton I believe was all Rob D and friends and fell into oblivion after the early 90’s minus the random bits of faded tape high in trees. A few adventurous 20 something’s ( OGE xtremers)) went in and cut a few “new” lines.

Most of the cutting pre ‘95 was geared largely to the light 3pin groups. So, you have little bits of steep, traverse, and then a shortish uphill to connect a bit more of a drop.

[AyoBeng]

If anyone is by chance looking for a 2 bedroom apartment in the Waterbury area starting in November shoot me a PM, Mrs. AyoBeng and I are buying a house in Middlesex and need someone to take over our lease.

As for Bolton BC I don’t know it well enough to serve as a guide but I know it well enough to mess around and have a great day of touring once the snowpack gets deep enough. I’ll have to try to get in on the fun with y’all this winter.

[FussyDutchman]

Very interesting beta Boreas, definitely all beyond my knowledge but I've been told of some spots that sound similar by a certain local barkeep and a few other locals. We need to grab a few before the season starts, same to you Ayo.

[vt_ski]

Unless the job is east of Burlington, Waterbury will not fit your 30 minute commute.

25 minutes WTB->BTV

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[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Vermont is a tough place to live and a tough place to run a business (hence not many jobs). The CEO of Global Foundries has stated openly that if it weren't for the incentives, there's no way they would be in Vermont (or New York). Vermont is the only state north of the Mason-Dixon line that taxes my retired military pay (none of which was earned in Vermont). There's a reason my extended family no longer resides here...they're all across the river with Buttah. Sad to say that when I retire from the current gig (fed employee) I'll be heading east also. Because Vermont also taxes my fed pension and social security.

You would think that with the amount of money Vermont spends per student (the highest in the country by more than 25% above the runner-up state) our schools would be better...but they're not. I had no problem paying high taxes when I was living in New York because the schools there are just incredible. I pay more in taxes here in Vermont and there's not a school in the state that can hold a candle to the schools my kids went to (Baldwinsville) near Syracuse. Teachers were well-paid there; not so in VT.

But I still love living here and will as long as I can afford it. Once I retire, I can't afford to stay here because I won't have the funds to do all of the things that make it so great. There was a song from the 70s called Voices in the Hills (can't remember who sang it) but it told the story of Vermont farmers selling out because they couldn't afford the taxes. Coincided with Bernie's arrival here in the Green Mountain State....

[Peruvian]

You would think that with the amount of money Vermont spends per student (the highest in the country by more than 25% above the runner-up state) our schools would be better...but they're not. I had no problem paying high taxes when I was living in New York because the schools there are just incredible. I pay more in taxes here in Vermont and there's not a school in the state that can hold a candle to the schools my kids went to (Baldwinsville) near Syracuse. Teachers were well-paid there; not so in VT.
.

Huh?

https://amp.burlingtonfreepress.com/amp/98902572


https://247wallst.com/special-report...t-schools-6/2/


https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ings/education


https://www.forbes.com/sites/reneemo...l-systems/amp/

[AmmergauerTele]

Wow, that is quite interesting. NH spending roughly $15k per high school student while VT at $20k+ with essentially the same results. VT taxes retirement, social security, military retirement....essentially everything. 2% taxes on your home. Absolutely crushing. So.....the state needs money to fund everything, so they have to tax very high. Since they tax so high, no one wants to live there and businesses will not locate there. I bet there is quite a "brain drain" going on too. Bernie will fix it, right?

[Peruvian]

Are you sure that VT overall taxes are higher than NH?

[slatham]

Are you sure that VT overall taxes are higher than NH?

Very interesting info for someone who is very much considering retiring to VT in the next 5 +/- years. Has the situation improved with Scott (Republican) as Governor?

[HankScorpio]

As someone who has taught in MA and now VT, the schools here are no slouch and expectations for teachers and students are almost as rigorous as MA. As for pay, VT teachers salaries are excellent considering the cost of living here. I was getting paid a very livable public school teachers’ salary when I taught in the Boston area. When I took a job here I only took about an 8% pay cut. I also have a M. Ed and experience, which helps.

Taxes are what they are but I’m paying half the property tax I would be paying if I still lived in Boston. We were also able to buy a beautiful home with amazing views for what a parking spot costs in a city. There’s other cost savings here too - car insurance for my wife and I went down $300 per month and little shit like going out to eat costs about half as much.

It’s also worth adding VT is one of the safest states to live in (as a parent that’s important) and quality of life is great if you can swing a job in one of few industries here.

To each their own but as a 30 something teacher who loves biking and skiing and the super friendly community here I love it.

I know I’m a just another transplant born in CT, just trying to get the fuck out of the city and I haven’t been here long but I dig it here and my wife, kiddo and I are frankly just happy.

And as for Buttah’s comment on the drugs and poverty - he’s right and I see it firsthand being a teacher. It’s not unique to VT, that’s the reality for most of rural America. But I’m out there in the schools everyday, with a bunch of other great people trying to help make this place better.

End rant, I’m gonna go ride my bike.



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[Vt-Freeheel]

Very interesting info for someone who is very much considering retiring to VT in the next 5 +/- years. Has the situation improved with Scott (Republican) as Governor?

Scott is doing the best he can against the extreme liberal left in the statehouse. Vermont legislature has a fixation on being the greenest state in the nation. As such they like to pass "first in the nation" laws that burden the residents with more fees, like the mandatory composting law that is falling apart because the logistics in a small rural state don't work.
Mrs. Doubtfire isn't going to win this election so it will be at least 2 years before the moronic carbon tax has a chance to be implemented. Of course they love to push public transportation and excepting the few urban areas, where it just barely works, is a drain of funds that will never work in 98% of the state.

[geomorph]

That is some trans-phobic bullshit.

Mrs. Doubtfire isn't going to win this election .

[Benny Profane]

What you guys need is a major city to supply a tax base. Burlington just doesn't cut it. I lived in Saratoga Springs, and always marveled at how the downstaters supported upstate with their tax dollars. As a roadie, I loved the fresh paving, but, it was obvious when I crossed the border into the Manchester/Dorset area, and found dirt. lots of dirt. Went on a few job interviews over there, and, man, it was weird. Strange culture.

[Peruvian]

What you guys need is a major city to supply a tax base. Burlington just doesn't cut it. I lived in Saratoga Springs, and always marveled at how the downstaters supported upstate with their tax dollars. As a roadie, I loved the fresh paving, but, it was obvious when I crossed the border into the Manchester/Dorset area, and found dirt. lots of dirt. Went on a few job interviews over there, and, man, it was weird. Strange culture.

Do we need to go over the Mexican fisherman proverb again?

[Benny Profane]

Sure. I'll go crack a brew.

[Peruvian]

Sure. I'll go crack a brew.

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “only a little while.”

The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.

The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, and stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.”

The American scoffed. “I have an MBA from Harvard, and can help you,” he said. “You should spend more time fishing, and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, and eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middle-man, you could sell directly to the processor, eventually opening up your own cannery. You could control the product, processing, and distribution,” he said. “Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles, and eventually to New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “Oh, 15 to 20 years or so.”

“But what then?” asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time was right, you would announce an IPO, and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions!”

“Millions – then what?”

The American said, “Then you could retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, and stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play guitar with your amigos.”

[Benny Profane]

Yeah, but, the cool thing about upstate NY is that they benefit from downstate tax income (and corrupt state politics) but can still hunt and fish and fuck off. So, what you need is, say, Barre to suddenly be rich, but, you won't have to live there, they'll support you.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Huh?

https://amp.burlingtonfreepress.com/amp/98902572


https://247wallst.com/special-report...t-schools-6/2/


https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ings/education


https://www.forbes.com/sites/reneemo...l-systems/amp/

RE Quality, every one of those articles uses different criteria. Note that NH ranks higher in them. While NY ranks lower, my experience was in Upstate, not Downstate/NYC which generally has horrible schools and skews the overall score.

RE per student spending, I have seen and heard many stats that consistently rank Vermont as the highest per student spending in the nation. Straight up spending with no fancy math, VT spends over $18K per student and the next highest state spends just over $13K.

Are you sure that VT overall taxes are higher than NH?

The chart you linked ranks NH 33rd and VT 41st so you proved my point for me. Read Kiplinger's rankings of most and least tax-friendly states. NH is 8th and VT is 40th. My parents have been in the tax business or more than 40 years and chose to leave VT for NH.

[Peruvian]

US Census has NY rated #1 in spending at $22.4k.

https://vermontbiz.com/news/2018/jun...ending-student

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

I retract my earlier statement on spending per pupil.

I have less money in my pocket living in Vermont than I would in either NY or NH but that's particular to my situation.

On the business front, NY is very aggressive at attracting business and is the main reason IBM left Essex Junction for Fishkill. NY offered $41 million in tax breaks to Big Blue. Funny thing happened though...the engineers stayed in Vermont. So there is a draw.

[JerseyDave]

Schools don't raise your kid. Costs are high in part because enrollment is low. In Northfield our school was build for an additional 20 percent of kids. We are old in Vt. Vermonts problems stem form the National issues of lost jobs and the transition to severice based economies that transfer wealth to the top. It's becoming a state of lords and servants, as is the nation and we can't legislate ourselves out of the problem. a federal minimum wage of 15 an hour would change everything for us, and the rest of America.

If you think the Repugnant-cans, or the Demoncrats care or will make a difference for any of us you'er a sheep.

At the end of the day you either value the life in Vt, or you don't. There are great opportunities to build equity in a house and land if you buy smart. A town like Barre, or Northfield for example, are very close to the second largest economic node in the state and you can buy a lot of house for 2hundred K or less. We bought for 140something 11 years ago and have built considerable equity. Hopefully in 15 years when my son is out on his own we split with cash in hand, buy outright and chill with a very small monthly. That's the play. Waterbury still has opportunity but the buy in at this point is high comparatively. Missed the boat in the gold towns by 30 years, buying in waterbury in the late 90's would have been ideal.

If you end up in Ch(sh)it Co., there is considerable competition for your recreational resources. The place is degrading with gross land development as well. The BC you can get to quickly is a shit show. You will use your car a lot. Same with the Ski-towns. Competition for the low hanging fruit has exploded over the last decade. Back Yard recreation is the key to happiness IMO.