Possible move to Burlington, VT area looking for BETA.

[Benny Profane]

Hmmmmm.......

So, is Bolton Valley worth visiting? I just checked on some condo prices there. Very affordable. Nice place to park yourself near Stowe.
Is the place financially viable?

[DBdude]

That is some trans-phobic bullshit.

because he doesn't like hallquist doesn't make him a trans hater. she does look like mrs doubtfire

and she is not going to win the election. she could have kicked the dufus lieutenant governors ass. i don't understand her motivations

[DBdude]

Hmmmmm.......

So, is Bolton Valley worth visiting? I just checked on some condo prices there. Very affordable. Nice place to park yourself near Stowe.
Is the place financially viable?

i think it has only gone out of business once...

[DBdude]

If you've got in state tuition rates, go for it with no hesitation.

it's very expensive for a state university. much better bang for the buck in NY with better schools and more choice. NY property taxes are very high

VT is a nice place to live with many challenges. I regret coming here

[Sirshredalot]

Hmmmmm.......

So, is Bolton Valley worth visiting? I just checked on some condo prices there. Very affordable. Nice place to park yourself near Stowe.
Is the place financially viable?

I have friends who live and own their home there. They are smart people.

If I were to move back East, I might land there, too.

If the ski hill goes BK again, Rob Katz will be on them like flies on shit.

[Boreas]

Hmmmmm.......

So, is Bolton Valley worth visiting? I just checked on some condo prices there. Very affordable. Nice place to park yourself near Stowe.
Is the place financially viable?

Not really all that near Stowe driving wise, it would not be my first choice for a near Stowe getaway. I think in 20 years it’s changed ownership 5 times. It’s got a bar and a restaurant, everything else is either Waterbury or Richmond.

[AyoBeng]

Not really all that near Stowe driving wise, it would not be my first choice for a near Stowe getaway. I think in 20 years it’s changed ownership 5 times. It’s got a bar and a restaurant, everything else is either Waterbury or Richmond.

The distance isn’t terrible (35-40 minute drive?) but if frequent trips to Stowe were the goal the access road is what would make me think twice. It’s paved and maintained by the town and generally isn’t *that* bad but is really good at getting out-of-staters without snow tires stuck. The new owners seem to really be trying to breathe new life into the place, though it’s family owned which means no deep corporate pockets.

[JerseyDave]

The state’s $10k incentive to move to VT and telecommute is more for media hype than an actual increase to the tax base, but at least its forward thinking. That’s not something this state does well. Listen to VPR at 5 minutes before any hour and you hear some old sack of bones crowing about when they lived in VT before electricity came down the wire and how we should return back to the good old days. Willem Lange seems more interested in bringing back horse drawn plows than getting VT into the 21st century.

Of course if VT doesn’t get more reliable cellphone and internet service, the $10k offer is pointless.

I don’t see a $15/hr minimum wage having much effect in VT. The state minimum wage is already $3.25 above the Fed minimum wage and all of my friends that own businesses (shops, trades, manufacturing) all have to pay over the min wage to get employees already. The ski areas are the only folks down here that pay $10.50/hr but that’s cuz seasonal folks want the other benes and lifestyle. They’re not staying past April anyway.

http://www.mainepublic.org/post/stud...verty#stream/0

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

it's very expensive for a state university. much better bang for the buck in NY with better schools and more choice. NY property taxes are very high

VT is a nice place to live with many challenges. I regret coming here

I found the property taxes in upstate NY to be less than here in VT. I lived in Onondaga County (Syracuse area) and Saratoga County (SSPrings) in upstate NY for a total of 13 years. Because I served in combat, I got a property tax break from the state of NY. My effective property tax rate in NY was much lower than here in VT. Example: house in Saratoga assessed at $465K and had property taxes of just under $8K. condo in Essex Junction assessed at $329K and I only own from the sheetrock in; property taxes are $7.4K. Schools were better, roads were better, services were better in the part of NY I lived in.

[AmmergauerTele]

$15 minimum wage, wouldn't you think it would significantly raises prices for goods and services? On the surface it sounds good, what am I missing? I live in Hampton Roads area in Virginia. Tons of jobs here - just need to be committed and invest in yourself and your profession. Welding apprentice, working in shipyards, making easily $20+ an hour. No background in it needed - they will teach you.
I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around entry level jobs providing living wages?

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Welcome to the land of Bernie Sanders

[Benny Profane]

I found the property taxes in upstate NY to be less than here in VT. I lived in Onondaga County (Syracuse area) and Saratoga County (SSPrings) in upstate NY for a total of 13 years. Because I served in combat, I got a property tax break from the state of NY. My effective property tax rate in NY was much lower than here in VT. Example: house in Saratoga assessed at $465K and had property taxes of just under $8K. condo in Essex Junction assessed at $329K and I only own from the sheetrock in; property taxes are $7.4K. Schools were better, roads were better, services were better in the part of NY I lived in.

God bless the downstate economy.

Property taxes are still fucked up in NY. There's a lot of downstate refugees that bought farms and acreage in the 90s and beyond for nothing, but are now being forced to sell because of the tax bill. You're forced to raise crops or animals for a break.

[retirwntm]

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “only a little while.”

The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.

The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, and stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.”

The American scoffed. “I have an MBA from Harvard, and can help you,” he said. “You should spend more time fishing, and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, and eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middle-man, you could sell directly to the processor, eventually opening up your own cannery. You could control the product, processing, and distribution,” he said. “Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles, and eventually to New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “Oh, 15 to 20 years or so.”

“But what then?” asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time was right, you would announce an IPO, and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions!”

“Millions – then what?”

The American said, “Then you could retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, and stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play guitar with your amigos.”

As a former American investment banker, I call bullshit on this whole proverb. There is no illegal activity and no one is being conned. Fake news.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[JerseyDave]

$15 minimum wage, wouldn't you think it would significantly raises prices for goods and services? On the surface it sounds good, what am I missing? I live in Hampton Roads area in Virginia. Tons of jobs here - just need to be committed and invest in yourself and your profession. Welding apprentice, working in shipyards, making easily $20+ an hour. No background in it needed - they will teach you.
I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around entry level jobs providing living wages?

Goods, not really. We don't make anything. Services, not really. What it means is the folks at the very top would have to take a cut. Reading "The Four" right now. Service based companies like Amazon make 100x the profit per employee as GM did. The employees make shit. All the gain goes to the top few. Service based economies are hyper wealth consolidators where as GM was the ideal company in the 20th century, employees made money too. Amazon is a beast and only a handful get insanely wealthy. A federal minimum changes that paradigm. It make service industry jobs, the bedrock of the new economy, viable. Plus your giving money to people who are gonna spend it locally and immediately, instead of Bezos types, or the Jamie Diamonds of the world hiding their wealth off shore, or exercising the loopholes provided by the feds to effectively pay a very low tax rate as compared to the middle.

[east or bust]

Not sure I want to ask this, but what do you guys think of UVM? Is it a good option for a kid looking at colleges?

Really depends on what your kid is looking to get out of the school. I believe UVM has rebranded itself as a Public Ivy or Ivy Light, whatever that means. If it’s STEM related then yes for a smallish university. The Natural Resources program is top notch. English and Business then it’s just meh. If your kid is looking at athletics programs both skiing and hockey are top notch, their soccer programs are pretty good also.

As for the return on your investment, I know plenty of people that went on to PHD’s, MD’s/DO’s, JD’s and other graduate programs after UVM. A few attended schools such as Yale, Tufts, UW medical, and Stanford. So you can say at the very least, for many, the school is able to provide a solid foundation for furthering ones career in academia and other schools recognize this.

yes

Overall, UVM is like many public universities - if you want a good education, it's there to be found. If you want to party, it's there and often in your face.

and yes


I graduated 2 years ago, out of state tuition is a bit asinine no doubt. I would not have been able to afford school without significant financial help from a relative.

One thing I'll say about the money is there's no mystery as to where it's going, the investments made to the infrastructure alone in just my time there were impressive to say the least. The dorms I lived in as a freshman are gone, replaced by a huge new freshman dorm with dining hall inside and connected to library, new STEM building, business school addition, and new athletic complex is not far off. I would generally agree with all Boreas' statement, however the business school (somewhat recently the "Grossman School of Business") is starting to make a name for itself, been doing pretty well ranking wise in the last couple years and good placement from talking to friends.

[BC.]

Really depends on what your kid is looking to get out of the school. I believe UVM has rebranded itself as a Public Ivy or Ivy Light, whatever that means. If it’s STEM related then yes for a smallish university. The Natural Resources program is top notch. English and Business then it’s just meh. If your kid is looking at athletics programs both skiing and hockey are top notch, their soccer programs are pretty good also.

As for the return on your investment, I know plenty of people that went on to PHD’s, MD’s/DO’s, JD’s and other graduate programs after UVM. A few attended schools such as Yale, Tufts, UW medical, and Stanford. So you can say at the very least, for many, the school is able to provide a solid foundation for furthering ones career in academia and other schools recognize this.

Both daughters are considering UVM as student athletes. One is interested in biology/physicians assistant, the other daughter is interested in environmental science. We have been up there on visits and have friends in the area. They do love Burlington, the campus and program/coaches. But reading all the negatives on this thread, I was starting to worry about the next 8 years of their lives up there.

Thank you mags for your comments.....appreciate your honesty. Lots to consider.

[Doremite]

Lots to consider.

Hopefully mostly gleaned from sources other than TGR posts.

[BC.]

Hopefully mostly gleaned from sources other than TGR posts.

Uh yes......^^^^understatement of the year. But it is good to hear from all perspectives. (Locals, graduates, friends, etc.)

[FussyDutchman]

Recent grads like EOB and Peruvian's daughter obviously have more detailed beta but as a parent of a HS senior in full college search mode I would have no issue sending her to uvm if it were on her radar. Unless your kid is an Ivy League or equivalent applicant the difference between uvm and a few hundred other schools is negligible as far as I can tell. Sure, if your kid has a specific major in mind out of HS (engineering, STEM etc.) there may be better choices but for a general major uvm will serve you just as well as any. No question it is a much more $ state school than other states but if you live here, it is still significantly cheaper than sending your kid to the majority of comparable (or less) out of state schools. Plenty of my friends are grads and have excellent, stable well paying jobs, many here locally in the BTV area.

[anotherVTskibum]

Hmmmmm.......

So, is Bolton Valley worth visiting? I just checked on some condo prices there. Very affordable. Nice place to park yourself near Stowe.
Is the place financially viable?

It hasn't gone bankrupt in over a decade at this point, and the family running it now is the same family that founded it and successfully ran it for decades (albeit a younger generation). There's a lot of fun low-to-medium-angle tree skiing, as well as some stuff that gets a bit steeper if you know where to look. It doesn't have the variety of steep lines that Mt. Mansfield does, but it doesn't have the same competition for powder, either.

When I lived there, there was a pretty good crew of people living at the mountain. Some were employees, some had picked up condos during one of the bankruptcies in the late 90s (for a year or so, I believe they may have been the best real estate deal in greater Burlington), and some had found their way to the end of the road otherwise; everyone enjoyed playing outdoors. The skin-out-the-back-door aspect is f***ing awesome, and the base elevation is high enough that you can usually ski well after lifts stop turning. The mountain biking is pretty good, too, even if they aren't currently offering lift access.

The drive into Burlington isn't horrible, especially if your Burlington destination is near the interstate (or is actually South Burlington / Williston). Getting to the North End kinda sucks, but that's more about Vermont/Burlington's inability to build the Circ than about Bolton itself.

The access road itself, as noted, is not bad at all if you have snow tires or are on a Vespa (unless you get stuck below someone who doesn't, as also noted).

[DoWork]

I found the property taxes in upstate NY to be less than here in VT. I lived in Onondaga County (Syracuse area) and Saratoga County (SSPrings) in upstate NY for a total of 13 years. Because I served in combat, I got a property tax break from the state of NY. My effective property tax rate in NY was much lower than here in VT. Example: house in Saratoga assessed at $465K and had property taxes of just under $8K. condo in Essex Junction assessed at $329K and I only own from the sheetrock in; property taxes are $7.4K. Schools were better, roads were better, services were better in the part of NY I lived in.

What would that NY rate have been without your discount? Also what does the rate for the house on the circle look like? Not doubting you one bit, your stats just made me wonder what the rest of the picture looks like.

[DoWork]

$15 minimum wage, wouldn't you think it would significantly raises prices for goods and services? On the surface it sounds good, what am I missing? I live in Hampton Roads area in Virginia. Tons of jobs here - just need to be committed and invest in yourself and your profession. Welding apprentice, working in shipyards, making easily $20+ an hour. No background in it needed - they will teach you.
I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around entry level jobs providing living wages?

*sigh*

Outside looking in. If you can’t imagine struggling to survive and working 60hrs a week no matter what I say you’d still scratch your head and say “gee, I dunno...”

No job in America should be allowed to pay below a livable wage. If you can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage, you don’t deserve to be in business. Go to India and start a brick making debt farm, all the cool capitalists are doing it.

[JerseyDave]

*sigh*

Outside looking in. If you can’t imagine struggling to survive and working 60hrs a week no matter what I say you’d still scratch your head and say “gee, I dunno...”

No job in America should be allowed to pay below a livable wage. If you can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage, you don’t deserve to be in business. Go to India and start a brick making debt farm, all the cool capitalists are doing it.

QFT. There are a LOT of restaurants in Vt, specifically around the gold towns that would die. Almost all of them suck anyway. The joints that pay for good cooks and chefs would finally be appreciated, and the public, largely ignorant to what good food is, would not have to roll the dice on trying to figure out the difference. The play now is to exploit your cooks, turn them and burn them out, hire new ones for the next season while the "Manager" sits in his office creating fake user names and pumping yelp up with phony reviews. Yes, that is what they do. Look at Craigs list in Vt. The same places hiring constantly for the same jobs. On the P and L, labor is the only cost they feel they can move, but they won't realize they are over-staffed with untrained drunks and addicts and carrying too much staff does not allow them to expand and contract with the seasons. The right 3 guys can bang out hundreds of plates when they have to, and still enjoy almost full time hours when they are only seeing 30-40 covers a night. That, long term, make the business more viable, and more valuable. Retail....Same.

Sorry for the drift...

[Boreas]

Rather than increasing minimum wages, I propose a cap on the pay gap between the top salary and lowest. Essentially, if the highest paid person exceeds 100x of the lowest, the company is taxed at at much higher rate. You then take the added tax revenue and funnel it back into healthcare, education, infrastructure. It’s insane that the CEO of Fletcher Allen took in over 2 million in compensation when the lowest Admin Asst took in 24,000.

[Doremite]

*
No job in America should be allowed to pay below a livable wage. If you can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage, you don’t deserve to be in business. Go to India and start a brick making debt farm, all the cool capitalists are doing it.

Livable wage is huge on a number of fronts and one I find highly important is how it correlates to staff morale and productivity. Our company is realizing that paying recent college grads high 30s for entry level jobs still leaves them struggling when they have to cover Boston rents on top of student loan debt. I know min wage is set at the state level but Boston is a struggle under $20/hr for many. Unless you consider a room share in a shitty apartment and a long commute livable.

Peruvian, when does your daughter graduate and, if post class of 2020, she have any baby sitting skills?