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  1. #101
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    The stateís $10k incentive to move to VT and telecommute is more for media hype than an actual increase to the tax base, but at least its forward thinking. Thatís not something this state does well. Listen to VPR at 5 minutes before any hour and you hear some old sack of bones crowing about when they lived in VT before electricity came down the wire and how we should return back to the good old days. Willem Lange seems more interested in bringing back horse drawn plows than getting VT into the 21st century.

    Of course if VT doesnít get more reliable cellphone and internet service, the $10k offer is pointless.

    I donít see a $15/hr minimum wage having much effect in VT. The state minimum wage is already $3.25 above the Fed minimum wage and all of my friends that own businesses (shops, trades, manufacturing) all have to pay over the min wage to get employees already. The ski areas are the only folks down here that pay $10.50/hr but thatís cuz seasonal folks want the other benes and lifestyle. Theyíre not staying past April anyway.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by HankScorpio View Post
    As someone who has taught in MA and now VT, the schools here are no slouch and expectations for teachers and students are almost as rigorous as MA. As for pay, VT teachers salaries are excellent considering the cost of living here. I was getting paid a very livable public school teachersí salary when I taught in the Boston area. When I took a job here I only took about an 8% pay cut. I also have a M. Ed and experience, which helps.

    Taxes are what they are but Iím paying half the property tax I would be paying if I still lived in Boston. We were also able to buy a beautiful home with amazing views for what a parking spot costs in a city. Thereís other cost savings here too - car insurance for my wife and I went down $300 per month and little shit like going out to eat costs about half as much.

    Itís also worth adding VT is one of the safest states to live in (as a parent thatís important) and quality of life is great if you can swing a job in one of few industries here.

    To each their own but as a 30 something teacher who loves biking and skiing and the super friendly community here I love it.

    I know Iím a just another transplant born in CT, just trying to get the fuck out of the city and I havenít been here long but I dig it here and my wife, kiddo and I are frankly just happy.

    And as for Buttahís comment on the drugs and poverty - heís right and I see it firsthand being a teacher. Itís not unique to VT, thatís the reality for most of rural America. But Iím out there in the schools everyday, with a bunch of other great people trying to help make this place better.

    End rant, Iím gonna go ride my bike.



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    In this area, our kids go to Flood Brook (and then have school choice for HS), which is a fucking amazing school that is light years better than the well-to-do town we moved from in MA with a "great school system". We also have one going to Burr & Burton Academy right now for $0 dollars and yeah, THAT is why the per-student number is so high in general. I'll give you one guess how many fucks I give that it costs more on paper to give my kids the best of ALL worlds- it blows my mind how good we have it here. Good clean country living, more adventure than you can shake a stick at and an education on par with the best in the country.

    I'm glad it's deemed "too hard" to make a living here. It keeps the people who think they are above a blue collar life at a safe distance. Many hard working people do just fine here, btw.

    One last thing- real estate here is crazy cheap. I could afford a small shanty in MA, whereas we bought a pretty fucking sweet house up here for a fraction of the cost. We could not believe how far money goes in real estate up here, it was a shocking transition to say the least. Also, after doing our homework we found that our effective tax rate here in town is significantly less than surrounding towns that DON'T offer school choice. It's all about what you're willing to put into the research, how long you're willing to work on finding a place and how diligent you are about what concessions you're willing to make to live the VT life. There are a million ways to make it work if you aren't high maintenance.
    "If you limit your choices only to what seems possible or reasonable, you disconnect yourself from what you truly want, and all that is left is a compromise." -Robert Fritz

    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    not enough nun fisters in that community

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    The state’s $10k incentive to move to VT and telecommute is more for media hype than an actual increase to the tax base, but at least its forward thinking. That’s not something this state does well. Listen to VPR at 5 minutes before any hour and you hear some old sack of bones crowing about when they lived in VT before electricity came down the wire and how we should return back to the good old days. Willem Lange seems more interested in bringing back horse drawn plows than getting VT into the 21st century.

    Of course if VT doesn’t get more reliable cellphone and internet service, the $10k offer is pointless.

    I don’t see a $15/hr minimum wage having much effect in VT. The state minimum wage is already $3.25 above the Fed minimum wage and all of my friends that own businesses (shops, trades, manufacturing) all have to pay over the min wage to get employees already. The ski areas are the only folks down here that pay $10.50/hr but that’s cuz seasonal folks want the other benes and lifestyle. They’re not staying past April anyway.
    I'm a trained chef. It would make a huge difference.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoWork View Post
    There are a million ways to make it work if you aren't high maintenance.
    Good luck finding a decent soy milk 4 pump macchiato, though.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    Good luck finding a decent soy milk 4 pump macchiato, though.

    Oh, the humanity!
    "If you limit your choices only to what seems possible or reasonable, you disconnect yourself from what you truly want, and all that is left is a compromise." -Robert Fritz

    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    not enough nun fisters in that community

  6. #106
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    Possible move to Burlington, VT area looking for BETA.

    Itís not the $10K as the driver but I do wonder if advances in technology that make telecommuting more seamless will help w the tax base and VT economy in general. Seems my move plan isnít all that original. For someone w my interests, VT far more attractive than MA for a # of reasons. DW names a few.

    Realize itís from a place of privilege but the taxes donít scare me. I do realize it can be more of a factor in certain situations. Iíve worked a long time at good pay and continue to have strong income so I donít mind kicking into the kitty as I am still left w plenty to support my fairly modest lifestyle. If I were to buy a home close to Boston as nice as what I can afford in BTV, I would be broke. ....and live with far inferior surroundings. My mortgage would erode my income effecting disposable income for skis and craft beer. In BTV my quiver will flourish and I will bath in world class ipas.

    What makes a good school good is also subjective and looking through a statewide lens is just a start. I went to a shitty high school in MA that worked for me and I am confident I can find a much better education for my girls in VT than I got in MA.
    Last edited by Doremite; 09-24-2018 at 08:20 AM.
    Uno mas

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    I'm a trained chef. It would make a huge difference.
    I ski with a 'trained chef' who works at a relatively small inn. He is salaried with benefits.

    If you can't find a job as a chef for more than $31.2k/year you must not be very good at it.

  8. #108
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    That $10K incentive is for moving expenses and is paid out over 2 years. Iím pretty sure thereís only 10 of those available.


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  9. #109
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    It's too cold in Vt.. That's the problem. No corporation in this day and age is going to move there or even start up, unless the CEO has a fondness for the locale and wants to live there. Employees who like the climate are hard to find. Not everyone skis. Most Vermont residents don't ski. Denver and many other western cities are much more attractive to that type. Utilities are much cheaper, too, in sunny, western mountain cities that aren't grey and cold half the year. Infrastructure is poor, both roads and communication. As mentioned, that's very important today.
    Then there's the black flies.....

    Vermonters are tough and self serving, though. I will always be impressed how they banded together and fixed all the damage from hurricaine Irene in '11, and didn't wait for outside help. I thought the ski season was toast after seeing that damage, but, they got it done in time. The state's always going to survive, but, it's never going to be rich.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsAugustWest View Post
    That $10K incentive is for moving expenses and is paid out over 2 years. Iím pretty sure thereís only 10 of those available.


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    I am going to try. Not a deal breaker tho. It is also reimbursement of, for example, internet. Not like they just write you a check for $10K unfortunately. Unlike my transfer tax.
    Uno mas

  11. #111
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    Love BTV and have skied there more than any other mtn the past 10 yrs. Would love to give a tour, as long as you all promise never to tell anyone.
    Perfer et obdura, hic dolor olim utior tibi. -Ovid

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laps View Post
    Love BTV and have skied there more than any other mtn the past 10 yrs. Would love to give a tour, as long as you all promise never to tell anyone.
    Tell anyone? I wonít even know anyone. Your secrets are safe w me.
    Uno mas

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doremite View Post
    Tell anyone? I wonít even know anyone. Your secrets are safe w me.
    You made the cut!
    Perfer et obdura, hic dolor olim utior tibi. -Ovid

  14. #114
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    Back on track....A very cool town to consider is Richmond. Easy access to BTV, lots of options in the hills surrounding town, short drive to Bolton, Stowe, and the MRV, Cochran's, low housing prices, Richmond Market (don't tell anybody), 15 minutes to Frost Brewery, and Stone Corral Brewery right in town. I think the HS kids go to Mount Mansfield Union which is not a top tier school but I have a friend that was happy with the education his 2 kids got there.

  15. #115
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    Good call on Richmond, I like the location. Near lots of cool things to do. Yeah, it looks like living in VT, having all the access to stuff I like to do outweighs the negatives with the taxes....I think. Now have to score the job.

  16. #116
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    Not sure I want to ask this, but what do you guys think of UVM? Is it a good option for a kid looking at colleges?

  17. #117
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    That article just proves that NH taxed lower than VT, even after the adjustment.

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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC. View Post
    Not sure I want to ask this, but what do you guys think of UVM? Is it a good option for a kid looking at colleges?
    Depends on how deep your pockets are. It's a good, not great school and one of the more expensive state schools in the country. I enjoyed my 5 years there...at least what I remember. As a poor Vermonter, I couldn't really afford to ski as much as I wanted to but I did ok.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    I ski with a 'trained chef' who works at a relatively small inn. He is salaried with benefits.

    If you can't find a job as a chef for more than $31.2k/year you must not be very good at it.
    It was the lifestyle that sucked. The line cooks and dishwashers are the folks I was thinking of. The best money I ever made was making Pizza. A great hourly plus tips for a low stress fun job. Pizza makes money so the help does too. I worked at some high end joints. They act as if working there is a gift so the money always sucked for what was expected of you. My wife's a CPA so when the kiddo came along it was on me to be available for kid stuff. He's a boy's boy so dad time has been key. We love VT, though we are basically poor as compared to what we could make back in Morris County NJ where I grew up then fled....
    But, we digress.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC. View Post
    Not sure I want to ask this, but what do you guys think of UVM? Is it a good option for a kid looking at colleges?
    It's a perfectly good school, but I would hesitate to pay out of state tuition for it, and I would be concerned about sending a kid there who might have trouble putting down the bong and making it to class.

    But, like I said, perfectly good school. I had a lot of friends who went there. Some were on academic probation after a semester and transferred out, some went to prestigious graduate school. This was fifteen years ago now, so it may be less of a magnet for stoners these days now that legal weed is much more readily available in other states.

    If you've got in state tuition rates, go for it with no hesitation.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    It was the lifestyle that sucked. The line cooks and dishwashers are the folks I was thinking of. The best money I ever made was making Pizza. A great hourly plus tips for a low stress fun job. Pizza makes money so the help does too. I worked at some high end joints. They act as if working there is a gift so the money always sucked for what was expected of you. My wife's a CPA so when the kiddo came along it was on me to be available for kid stuff. He's a boy's boy so dad time has been key. We love VT, though we are basically poor as compared to what we could make back in Morris County NJ where I grew up then fled....
    But, we digress.
    Madison and Morristown raised brah. Wonder if we know any of the same families?

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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Madison and Morristown raised brah. Wonder if we know any of the same families?

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    My family is Madison Alumni since the 30's. Grandad, Great Uncle, Dad, older Brothers and I all wrestled there, now my nephew will start next year. I was class of '92. Older brothers class of '90, and '83. Go Dodgers.

  23. #123
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    Possible move to Burlington, VT area looking for BETA.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsAugustWest View Post

    The chart you linked ranks NH 33rd and VT 41st so you proved my point for me. Read Kiplinger's rankings of most and least tax-friendly states. NH is 8th and VT is 40th. My parents have been in the tax business or more than 40 years and chose to leave VT for NH.
    You and prsboogie are both right. I was reading hat chart incorrectly.

    Although the tax figures arenít as far off as many believe and if you include NH fees (not considered taxes) like vehicle registration, they probably get even closer.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC. View Post
    Not sure I want to ask this, but what do you guys think of UVM? Is it a good option for a kid looking at colleges?
    Really depends on what your kid is looking to get out of the school. I believe UVM has rebranded itself as a Public Ivy or Ivy Light, whatever that means. If itís STEM related then yes for a smallish university. The Natural Resources program is top notch. English and Business then itís just meh. If your kid is looking at athletics programs both skiing and hockey are top notch, their soccer programs are pretty good also.

    As for the return on your investment, I know plenty of people that went on to PHDís, MDís/DOís, JDís and other graduate programs after UVM. A few attended schools such as Yale, Tufts, UW medical, and Stanford. So you can say at the very least, for many, the school is able to provide a solid foundation for furthering ones career in academia and other schools recognize this.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Really depends on what your kid is looking to get out of the school. I believe UVM has rebranded itself as a Public Ivy or Ivy Light, whatever that means. If it’s STEM related then yes for a smallish university. The Natural Resources program is top notch. English and Business then it’s just meh. If your kid is looking at athletics programs both skiing and hockey are top notch, their soccer programs are pretty good also.

    As for the return on your investment, I know plenty of people that went on to PHD’s, MD’s/DO’s, JD’s and other graduate programs after UVM. A few attended schools such as Yale, Tufts, UW medical, and Stanford. So you can say at the very least, for many, the school is able to provide a solid foundation for furthering ones career in academia and other schools recognize this.
    The term "Public Ivy" goes back to a 1985 book.

    Overall, UVM is like many public universities - if you want a good education, it's there to be found. If you want to party, it's there and often in your face.

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