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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self Jupiter View Post
    I like when my legs are burning so hard on a pow run it feels like they’re taking a lava infusion from the feet and it’s circulating/flowing upward to the thighs. Legs literally feel on fire. Kind of enjoy it.
    I've found focused, forceful exhales really helps with thigh burn. It's weird but it works. Perhaps one of the more scientist types could explain why. (Guessing placebo but whatever.)

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    I've found focused, forceful exhales really helps with thigh burn. It's weird but it works. Perhaps one of the more scientist types could explain why.
    It’s a
    placebo
    effect, really just forcing you to concentrate on something else.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    I've found focused, forceful exhales really helps with thigh burn. It's weird but it works. Perhaps one of the more scientist types could explain why. (Guessing placebo but whatever.)
    It might help you relax and use less energy to perform the same work.

  4. #154
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    Feb 2012
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    Bellingham
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    Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    I've found focused, forceful exhales really helps with thigh burn. It's weird but it works. Perhaps one of the more scientist types could explain why. (Guessing placebo but whatever.)
    It’s all about maintaining aerobic metabolism as long as possible. More O2 to the muscles prevents anaerobic metabolism kicking in. Anaerobic is way less efficient and uses lactate to produce ATP (-this is the energy that powers the cell). The problem with this is lactate only yields 4 ATP per cycle whereas Aerobic Metabolism produces 32. But it needs 02 to work. So deep forceful breathing increases Fi02 (arterial O2) two ways.
    1) increases the tidal volume and amount of 02 exposed to your alveoli in the lungs
    2) forceful exhalation increases PEEP (positive expiratory end pressure) to actually force the 02 into the blood past the alveolar membrane.

    Read the article I posted above to learn about lactate threshold. This is what we’re talking about here. Being able to effectively convert lactate into ATP is the key to avoid the “quad burn” we’re talking about. A lot of new science about this in the last 10 years has completely changed how it was thought to have worked.


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  5. #155
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoast View Post
    I’m going to put this here. Basically train slow twitch muscles to help your fast twitch muscles recover faster. Train sport specific for tailored results. Leg blasters, lateral touch the ground and over and back box jumps, posterior chain strength and some cardio and weights will get you there. Leg extensions are a big no no for ACL reconstruction patients...
    Great discussion BTW
    https://www.trainingpeaks.com/
    blog/what-is-lactate-and-lactate-threshold/


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    That took me to some training app for purchase.

  6. #156
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    That took me to some training app for purchase.
    Shit. It does. Weird. Too bad because it was a well written explanation of some of the latest research I’ve seen on it. This one explains it and VO2 max, which is more for cardio and targeting extreme distance runners. But good info nonetheless.
    https://www.active.com/triathlon/art...plained?page=1


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  7. #157
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    No one is gonna effectively change their body’s aerobic threshold mid workout.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoast View Post
    It’s all about maintaining aerobic metabolism as long as possible. More O2 to the muscles prevents anaerobic metabolism kicking in. Anaerobic is way less efficient and uses lactate to produce ATP (-this is the energy that powers the cell). The problem with this is lactate only yields 4 ATP per cycle whereas Aerobic Metabolism produces 32. But it needs 02 to work. So deep forceful breathing increases Fi02 (arterial O2) two ways.
    1) increases the tidal volume and amount of 02 exposed to your alveoli in the lungs
    2) forceful exhalation increases PEEP (positive expiratory end pressure) to actually force the 02 into the blood past the alveolar membrane.
    I would guess that some or all of the effect is due to increased alkalization of the blood due to increased exhalation of CO2. Ingesting large amounts of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) has a similar effect on blood pH and reliably improves performance in short-duration high-intensity activities:

    https://www.sportsci.org/traintech/buffer/lrm.htm
    Conclusions

    Sodium bicarbonate and sodium citrate seem to be effective in improving short-term, high intensity performance. There are sufficient data to suggest that buffering agents can improve performances in such events as the 400-m sprint, 1-km cycling time trial, and Olympic rowing. There are not enough data to make recommendations with regard to longer events.


    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    I 100% agree that there is a point you don’t need to keep training for pure strength to go skiing, and need to focus on endurance and primarily stamina. I’d say this is true for all sports/athletics outside of Strongman, Powerlifting and Weightlifting.
    Fully agree. A guy who struggles to squat 1x BW is going to see huge benefits from getting stronger. A guy who can already squat 2x BW probably isn't going to get any benefit from improving up to a 3x BW squat.

    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    My point was more focused on highlighting that it was my quads which failed, not my glutes or back, and perhaps the load distribution of conventional BB squats was not sufficient (by itself) to train the legs for skiing.
    Maybe quads, via either the mechanics of skiing or some inherent difference between the muscle groups, are just more prone to eccentric damage. Spitballing....

    For me, where the back really comes into play, especially in terms of DOMS, is landing airs.

  9. #159
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    Feb 2012
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    Bellingham
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    No one is gonna effectively change their body’s aerobic threshold mid workout.
    Correct, it requires training to effectively change it for an extended period. Forceful breathing does help to stave off a few reps for short term movements in unconditioned athletes. Try holding your breath and see what happens.
    Breathing is a focus in so many endurance sports such as running and climbing, especially at altitude. The very same principles are applied for the above stated reasons.


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  10. #160
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    Feb 2012
    Location
    Bellingham
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    51

    Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I would guess that some or all of the effect is due to increased alkalization of the blood due to increased exhalation of CO2. Ingesting large amounts of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) has a similar effect on blood pH and reliably improves performance in short-duration high-intensity activities:

    https://www.sportsci.org/traintech/buffer/lrm.htm
    Conclusions

    Sodium bicarbonate and sodium citrate seem to be effective in improving short-term, high intensity performance. There are sufficient data to suggest that buffering agents can improve performances in such events as the 400-m sprint, 1-km cycling time trial, and Olympic rowing. There are not enough data to make recommendations with regard to longer events.
    Breathing is also the shorthand for the carbonic acid cycle. Adding bicarbonate only forces H+ (acid) into the cell. Very temporizing and only useful in resuscitations of actively dying people (also controversial in this regard). Acid base balance of the blood is the entire purpose of breathing and is way too complicated for this discussion.


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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoast View Post
    Try holding your breath and see what happens.
    I don't even do the Wim Hof breathing that often, but after a few rounds of the breathing I can reliably do 40-50 pushups with empty lungs. Hypocapnia is a hell of a drug.

  12. #162
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    May 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Interesting results.

    I was ruminating on the quad failure XavierD brought up earlier while coming down on a quad-busting steep and technical trail run over the weekend. It seems plausible that quad strength, above a certain modest baseline, doesn't matter much in the context of the extreme eccentric loading of skiing. Maybe even "front squat 300 for 20 reps"-strong quads easily wilt in the face of unrelenting eccentric loads.
    That has been my experience. I treat leg blasters a sport specific conditioning and have yet to find anything that replicates the unique combination of lactate threshold and eccentric loading ( eccentric muscle endurance almost?) that skiing demands. Having a higher top end strength from squats makes leg-blasters a more effective training method and recovery from them much more pleasant I've found, although despite the articles conclusion I wouldn't expect them to improve your top end leg strength really if you're already pretty strong . But I think they (or something similar) are pretty essential if you want to hit the ground running when the lifts start spinning.
    "They don't think it be like it is, but it do."

  13. #163
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I don't even do the Wim Hof breathing that often, but after a few rounds of the breathing I can reliably do 40-50 pushups with empty lungs. Hypocapnia is a hell of a drug.
    I would wager this is done first set and not after you’ve depleted the glycogen stores in your muscles.


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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo View Post
    ( eccentric muscle endurance almost?)
    There's a very specific and especially debilitating type of muscle damage created by eccentric contractions. The Repeated Bout Effect makes you resistant to this kind of damage.

    I think steep, technical downhill trail running trumps all, but that's not an option for everyone. For always-available dryland tools, yeah, LBs FTMFW.

    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoast View Post
    I would wager this is done first set and not after you’ve depleted the glycogen stores in your muscles.
    Usually only do one set in this context. I can't do anywhere remotely close to that number of reps on empty lungs without doing the breathing first.

  15. #165
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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
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    Just went down the weird worm hole of when you're looking for a specific video... but can't find it on youtube...

    A ski team posted a machine they made for eccentric workouts that looked intriguing.. Can't find that... but did find this gem:



    The one I was looking for was basically a reverse pogostick thing that sort of mimicked the above.

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    The North Country
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    3,622
    Try this stuff:

    https://youtu.be/s2Cg7cTL1EI




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  17. #167
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    Sep 2012
    Location
    sydney
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    71
    message me for pdfs on www.mtntactical.com ski workouts and some other ones

  18. #168
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by pow_pow~ View Post
    message me for pdfs on www.mtntactical.com ski workouts and some other ones
    I used their preseason ski program last year, and am doing the backcountry program now. Lots of leg blasters, lateral box jumps and weighted step ups.

  19. #169
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    Oct 2003
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    slc
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    Built a slosh pipe yesterday. This thing will put hair on your chest.

  20. #170
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    Aug 2006
    Location
    Calgary
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    1,496
    30 days of nothing but leg extensions...fuck do I look good in the mirror.

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