Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

[iriponsnow]

Attachment 393037

That’s really a hinge, but nice try.

[Hopeless Sinner]

Hamstring curl machines are great, probably better than GHRs

thank you

[neufox47]

Generally, I’m a big fan of pointing out that exercise selection really doesn’t matter to a point… except for this one:

Please don’t waste anyones time with this parlor trick

Sorry. Rant off.

Nordic curls are great if you don’t have access to a hamstring curl machine. GHRs are another great way to hit knee flexion hamstring work. Generally a good idea for getting not only strong but keeping your knees healthy

I’m against pistols but not single leg squats. Given some of the comments I think it is worth differentiating the two. I’m with you though on the pistol, the flexibility required and aggravation you can cause to a hip flexor is not worth doing.

https://youtu.be/fvMbaOX6YQg

Single leg squats are more difficult to weight but weight vests and chains work. Also you can go pretty high with a goblet hold kettlebell.

I didn’t think a hamstring curl machine is that similar to the muscle activation you get from a Nordic curl? My understanding is that a hamstring curl isolates the activation of the hamstring from the calf, glute, and lower back whereas the Nordic curl still requires far more involvement of the posterior chain.

Personally if I had to oversimplify a skiers workout to say 3 exercises I think I’d pick single leg squats, rfess, and kettlebell swings.

[XavierD]

QUOTE]

Yeah. Folks with only one leg might want to be good at single leg squats…

Attachment 393038

^Not a figure skater. Both legs represent terminal ends of the Pistol with independent action.

How is a high step-up not a better approximation where you can achieve higher loading across almost all athletes? Keep in mind for training skiing the goal is to spend as little time in the gym as possible to achieve the desired increase in strength and stamina? Why would I take hours of an athletes time to train a movement just so they can have a lower loading?

My guess is if we took a group of similar skiers left a third to do their own thing, a third we focused all squat training with just a simple bilateral back squat and a third we trained pistols for a three to sixth month window before the season the pistols group would be the slowest and least adapted.

The simple fact is being good at pistols makes you good at pistols and just about nothing else which is pretty shit for a movement which is difficult and requires someone to spend a bunch of time learning.

[californiagrown]

QUOTE]
The simple fact is being good at pistols makes you good at pistols and just about nothing else which is pretty shit for a movement which is difficult and requires someone to spend a bunch of time learning.

Yep, similar reasoning as to why a power clean or hang clean are generally better for athletes than learning a full clean or snatch. Why waste the time learning a super technical movement when you could dumb that movement down to its most basic power-producing components and progressively overload those is a safer, quicker, and more stable manner?

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Pistols can be a useful rehab exercise for people who are pretty strong but have glute med imbalance/ recruitment issues. They work just fine when holding onto a ring or strap for balance (no need to master the movement like Jackie Chan).

They are not a squat replacement.

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[iriponsnow]

Pistols as a theme can be programmed in many variants. You don't need as a prerequisite to ski, be an ass to grass champion in the pistol. For many ppl they help in biasing the balance towards vestibular and visual contributions as the dual somatosensory input is absent. The demands are different and can expand the total volume of training by averting over / repetitive stress of leg day being mostly about Squat / DL. Being novel, they draw upon a more neural recrement pattern & break up training routine.

Lastly, most skiers spend hours pouring over dumb stuff online, learning a new exercise is never foolhardy utilization of time.

[EWG]

Pistols as a theme can be programmed in many variants. You don't need as a prerequisite to ski, be an ass to grass champion in the pistol. For many ppl they help in biasing the balance towards vestibular and visual contributions as the dual somatosensory input is absent. The demands are different and can expand the total volume of training by averting over / repetitive stress of leg day being mostly about Squat / DL. Being novel, they draw upon a more neural recrement pattern & break up training routine.

Lastly, most skiers spend hours pouring over dumb stuff online, learning a new exercise is never foolhardy utilization of time.

So I've been being a smartass, sorry.

Nothing wrong with unique exercises, even those that are more about balance and form, to break up a workout. Keeps it interesting and fun, and stabilizing muscles are important to target. Anything that requires balance stimulates those and is great in that regard.

Personally, I would not classify pistols as a core move. They would be a fun alternative now and then in my world. For skiers I would put the lower body exercises in these groups:

Most important:
Squats
Deadlifts

Almost as important:
Hip Thrusts
Split Squats
Lunges

Next:
Hamstring Curls
Side Lunges
Front Squats
Good Mornings or another type of lower back work

Don't forget:
Calf Raises (protects the knee)
In and out side leg kicks (takes care of the hip and groin stabilizing muscles
Balance Ball BW one legged squats (help stabilize knee)

Then Variations for fun, stabilization, keeping the muscles from getting too comfortable, etc:
Pistols
Single Leg RDL
Single Leg Squats
Leg Extensions
Leg Press
Hinge
Etc
Etc
Etc

Then, of course, there's still core and upper body work.

[californiagrown]

So I've been being a smartass, sorry.

Nothing wrong with unique exercises, even those that are more about balance and form, to break up a workout. Keeps it interesting and fun, and stabilizing muscles are important to target. Anything that requires balance stimulates those and is great in that regard.

Personally, I would not classify pistols as a core move. They would be a fun alternative now and then in my world. For skiers I would put the lower body exercises in these groups:

Most important:
Squats
Deadlifts

Almost as important:
Hip Thrusts
Split Squats
Lunges

Next:
Hamstring Curls
Side Lunges
Front Squats
Good Mornings or another type of lower back work

Don't forget:
Calf Raises (protects the knee)
In and out side leg kicks (takes care of the hip and groin stabilizing muscles
Balance Ball BW one legged squats (help stabilize knee)

Then Variations for fun, stabilization, keeping the muscles from getting too comfortable, etc:
Pistols
Single Leg RDL
Single Leg Squats
Leg Extensions
Leg Press
Hinge
Etc
Etc
Etc

Then, of course, there's still core and upper body work.

For purely skiers, id put frontsquat ahead of backsquat. Skiing is super quad dominant with an upright torso, and its really hard to acheive similar body positioning with a backsquat without really good mobility. And, you can load and progressivly overload front squat just as easy (if not easier because its technically an easier lift than BS) than a backsquat. If your upper back is failing on FS, then its likely also failing you on BS. that said, both are great, both fill the same slot, and both should be done as alternative training cycles to your preferred squat.

Also, hip thrusts are great if you have trouble activating your glutes. But not neccessary. I do a quick set of glute bridges on the floor prior to squating and get better activation and loading squating that i did with hipthrusts... minus the PITA setup.

Deadlifts are the most applicable exercise to life. period. But im currently not doing them. With a newborn at home and increased job responsibilities, nofuckingway my CNS can recover from squating and pulling heavy.... so im choosing to build up my squat for the preseason. I always had trouble recovering from deadlifts, but love being strong in them.

[iriponsnow]

So I've been being a smartass, sorry.

Nothing wrong with unique exercises, even those that are more about balance and form, to break up a workout. Keeps it interesting and fun, and stabilizing muscles are important to target. Anything that requires balance stimulates those and is great in that regard.

Personally, I would not classify pistols as a core move. They would be a fun alternative now and then in my world. For skiers I would put the lower body exercises in these groups:

Most important:
Squats
Deadlifts

Almost as important:
Hip Thrusts
Split Squats
Lunges

Next:
Hamstring Curls
Side Lunges
Front Squats
Good Mornings or another type of lower back work

Don't forget:
Calf Raises (protects the knee)
In and out side leg kicks (takes care of the hip and groin stabilizing muscles
Balance Ball BW one legged squats (help stabilize knee)

Then Variations for fun, stabilization, keeping the muscles from getting too comfortable, etc:
Pistols
Single Leg RDL
Single Leg Squats
Leg Extensions
Leg Press
Hinge
Etc
Etc
Etc

Then, of course, there's still core and upper body work.

Hey man, I won’t yuck ur yum, as my 10 year old would say. Good on ya for having a physical practice!

That said, I’d toss in some Pistols

[neufox47]

I’ve been blown away how much it has helped getting a membership to a gym has helped me get back on track. Pre-Covid I built a decent home gym out but I’ve been super inconsistent, basically just barely hanging onto a strength base built over 7-8 years and cardio falling. Having 2 kids under three has been my main scape goat but since joining a commercial gym things have gotten a lot better. It helps that the gym has a really good “daycare” where you can drop your kids for 90 minutes while you workout, play tennis, etc (and a really good daycare at that which usually has staff ratios of 1-2). It feels good to get back over 400lbs for reps doing hex deadlifts and adding weight to chin ups. Which brings me to my point.

The best program is generally the one you do 3 times a week 50 weeks a year. You can have a pretty shitty program and unless it injures you, the consistent one will beat out the greatest, most effective one that is not done consistently.


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[Bamski]

Do people have any mobility routines they recommend to follow through their season? Getting older and I find after 5+ days in a row I can be feeling pretty beat up.

[EWG]

I’ve been blown away how much it has helped getting a membership to a gym has helped me get back on track. Pre-Covid I built a decent home gym out but I’ve been super inconsistent, basically just barely hanging onto a strength base built over 7-8 years and cardio falling. Having 2 kids under three has been my main scape goat but since joining a commercial gym things have gotten a lot better. It helps that the gym has a really good “daycare” where you can drop your kids for 90 minutes while you workout, play tennis, etc (and a really good daycare at that which usually has staff ratios of 1-2). It feels good to get back over 400lbs for reps doing hex deadlifts and adding weight to chin ups. Which brings me to my point.

The best program is generally the one you do 3 times a week 50 weeks a year. You can have a pretty shitty program and unless it injures you, the consistent one will beat out the greatest, most effective one that is not done consistently.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

This is it right here. 100%.

For me it was the opposite. Years and years of serious training gyms. My lovely wife was a diehard about it. I, while I made time once or twice a week, was much less consistent.

We changed to a gym in the garage for Covid and that made all the difference for me. Rather than doing my base stuff and getting out I’m sticking to a real program I’m putting together.

Whatever works for you is awesome. The location and the moves matter a whole lot less than the fact that you are doing it.

[XavierD]

Do people have any mobility routines they recommend to follow through their season? Getting older and I find after 5+ days in a row I can be feeling pretty beat up.

Reduce volume. Adding in more stressors (IE mobility work) isn’t going to help you feel better. If you replace some loading with yoga or similar that might help you move better but adding more is almost never a solution to recovery.

[Bamski]

Reduce volume. Adding in more stressors (IE mobility work) isn’t going to help you feel better. If you replace some loading with yoga or similar that might help you move better but adding more is almost never a solution to recovery.

Fair enough. I’m trying to find a balance between strength building and injury prevention. I might look in to tweaking my routine to simplify things and work in more rest.

[half-fast]

Do people have any mobility routines they recommend to follow through their season? Getting older and I find after 5+ days in a row I can be feeling pretty beat up.

I think xxx-er or someone posted this years ago-works for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDQNqZMv1V0
Deep release for hips, hamstrings and lower back

[LiveLarger]

My guess is if we took a group of similar skiers left a third to do their own thing, a third we focused all squat training with just a simple bilateral back squat and a third we trained pistols for a three to sixth month window before the season the pistols group would be the slowest and least adapted.

The simple fact is being good at pistols makes you good at pistols and just about nothing else which is pretty shit for a movement which is difficult and requires someone to spend a bunch of time learning.

This! ^^

The fact is, you only need "The big four"

Squats, bench, deadlift and military press. These are everything you need and all serious strength training is built around these lifts. The added exercises are just to aid progression in these lifts.

[neufox47]

Squats, bench, deadlift and military press. These are everything you need and all serious strength training is built around these lifts. The added exercises are just to aid progression in these lifts.

Go find a bunch of pro athletes focusing on progressive overload of these four lifts. If by “serious strength training” you mean people training for powerlifting, sure. But the big four (baseball, football, basketball, hockey)? No way.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Go find a bunch of pro athletes focusing on progressive overload of these four lifts. If by “serious strength training” you mean people training for powerlifting, sure. But the big four (baseball, football, basketball, hockey)? No way.

15-20 years ago somebody did a pretty big study looking at max deadlift #'s fro D1 wrestlers. There was no correlation with winning. My theory on this is that once you're strong "enough," more time spent developing max strength only reduces your capacity to recover from other kinds of training.

Walter Jones, the Hall of fame left tackle, trained in the offseason by pushing his Escalade up a hill. That was it.

[::: :::]

Walter Jones, the Hall of fame left tackle, trained in the offseason by pushing his Escalade up a hill. That was it.

isn’t that basically the movement a tackle does anyway?

[XavierD]

Specificity is indeed critical. The best sports training will always be doing that sport. Your strength specific work should be designed to support and enable that training, not replace it.

A simple squat, hip hinge, and upper push and pull exercise in the weight room are great for building the size and power those athletes need because they are easily repeatable, and easy to progress with small increments. It’s also a lot more efficient and safe for someone to go hit the weight room than push an Escalade up a hill.

[LiveLarger]

Specificity is critical, no doubt about it, but it's much more efficient to build general strength and then start doing specific exercises, if you already have a solid base. When it comes to EG skiing, all the top racers in the WC trains squats and with some serious weight.

Take a look on this video, the greatest skier of all time, Svindal training. Basically things like one legged squats are considered a balance exercise. The stuff with the chains are very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoIdYjw3u7M

[Dantheman]

Week-long bouts with adenovirus are not conducive to fitness goals. Been on my ass for a week with the usual sinus crap and copious lung boogers, plus conjunctivitis and an inner ear infection. Going to take weeks to get back to baseline, ugh.

[EWG]

Week-long bouts with adenovirus are not conducive to fitness goals. Been on my ass for a week with the usual sinus crap and copious lung boogers, plus conjunctivitis and an inner ear infection. Going to take weeks to get back to baseline, ugh.

I once rode a 24 hour race solo with a bad virus. Left it all out of the course. Turned out to be a terrible idea. Broke down a bunch of my muscle fiber, lost 15 pounds, wasn’t right for nearly 2 years.

Better to spend a week or two going easy. Stay on the right path.

[Dantheman]

Holy shit, that's gnarly. Upside, I stared watching The Expanse and have gotten through almost two seasons.