Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

[XavierD]

I've found focused, forceful exhales really helps with thigh burn. It's weird but it works. Perhaps one of the more scientist types could explain why.

It’s a

placebo

effect, really just forcing you to concentrate on something else.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I've found focused, forceful exhales really helps with thigh burn. It's weird but it works. Perhaps one of the more scientist types could explain why. (Guessing placebo but whatever.)

It might help you relax and use less energy to perform the same work.

[WestCoast]

I've found focused, forceful exhales really helps with thigh burn. It's weird but it works. Perhaps one of the more scientist types could explain why. (Guessing placebo but whatever.)

It’s all about maintaining aerobic metabolism as long as possible. More O2 to the muscles prevents anaerobic metabolism kicking in. Anaerobic is way less efficient and uses lactate to produce ATP (-this is the energy that powers the cell). The problem with this is lactate only yields 4 ATP per cycle whereas Aerobic Metabolism produces 32. But it needs 02 to work. So deep forceful breathing increases Fi02 (arterial O2) two ways.
1) increases the tidal volume and amount of 02 exposed to your alveoli in the lungs
2) forceful exhalation increases PEEP (positive expiratory end pressure) to actually force the 02 into the blood past the alveolar membrane.

Read the article I posted above to learn about lactate threshold. This is what we’re talking about here. Being able to effectively convert lactate into ATP is the key to avoid the “quad burn” we’re talking about. A lot of new science about this in the last 10 years has completely changed how it was thought to have worked.


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[2FUNKY]

I’m going to put this here. Basically train slow twitch muscles to help your fast twitch muscles recover faster. Train sport specific for tailored results. Leg blasters, lateral touch the ground and over and back box jumps, posterior chain strength and some cardio and weights will get you there. Leg extensions are a big no no for ACL reconstruction patients...
Great discussion BTW
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/
blog/what-is-lactate-and-lactate-threshold/


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That took me to some training app for purchase.

[WestCoast]

That took me to some training app for purchase.

Shit. It does. Weird. Too bad because it was a well written explanation of some of the latest research I’ve seen on it. This one explains it and VO2 max, which is more for cardio and targeting extreme distance runners. But good info nonetheless.
https://www.active.com/triathlon/art...plained?page=1


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[XavierD]

No one is gonna effectively change their body’s aerobic threshold mid workout.

[Dantheman]

It’s all about maintaining aerobic metabolism as long as possible. More O2 to the muscles prevents anaerobic metabolism kicking in. Anaerobic is way less efficient and uses lactate to produce ATP (-this is the energy that powers the cell). The problem with this is lactate only yields 4 ATP per cycle whereas Aerobic Metabolism produces 32. But it needs 02 to work. So deep forceful breathing increases Fi02 (arterial O2) two ways.
1) increases the tidal volume and amount of 02 exposed to your alveoli in the lungs
2) forceful exhalation increases PEEP (positive expiratory end pressure) to actually force the 02 into the blood past the alveolar membrane.

I would guess that some or all of the effect is due to increased alkalization of the blood due to increased exhalation of CO2. Ingesting large amounts of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) has a similar effect on blood pH and reliably improves performance in short-duration high-intensity activities:

https://www.sportsci.org/traintech/buffer/lrm.htm
Conclusions

Sodium bicarbonate and sodium citrate seem to be effective in improving short-term, high intensity performance. There are sufficient data to suggest that buffering agents can improve performances in such events as the 400-m sprint, 1-km cycling time trial, and Olympic rowing. There are not enough data to make recommendations with regard to longer events.

I 100% agree that there is a point you don’t need to keep training for pure strength to go skiing, and need to focus on endurance and primarily stamina. I’d say this is true for all sports/athletics outside of Strongman, Powerlifting and Weightlifting.

Fully agree. A guy who struggles to squat 1x BW is going to see huge benefits from getting stronger. A guy who can already squat 2x BW probably isn't going to get any benefit from improving up to a 3x BW squat.

My point was more focused on highlighting that it was my quads which failed, not my glutes or back, and perhaps the load distribution of conventional BB squats was not sufficient (by itself) to train the legs for skiing.

Maybe quads, via either the mechanics of skiing or some inherent difference between the muscle groups, are just more prone to eccentric damage. Spitballing....

For me, where the back really comes into play, especially in terms of DOMS, is landing airs.

[WestCoast]

No one is gonna effectively change their body’s aerobic threshold mid workout.

Correct, it requires training to effectively change it for an extended period. Forceful breathing does help to stave off a few reps for short term movements in unconditioned athletes. Try holding your breath and see what happens.
Breathing is a focus in so many endurance sports such as running and climbing, especially at altitude. The very same principles are applied for the above stated reasons.


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[WestCoast]

I would guess that some or all of the effect is due to increased alkalization of the blood due to increased exhalation of CO2. Ingesting large amounts of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) has a similar effect on blood pH and reliably improves performance in short-duration high-intensity activities:

https://www.sportsci.org/traintech/buffer/lrm.htm
Conclusions

Sodium bicarbonate and sodium citrate seem to be effective in improving short-term, high intensity performance. There are sufficient data to suggest that buffering agents can improve performances in such events as the 400-m sprint, 1-km cycling time trial, and Olympic rowing. There are not enough data to make recommendations with regard to longer events.

Breathing is also the shorthand for the carbonic acid cycle. Adding bicarbonate only forces H+ (acid) into the cell. Very temporizing and only useful in resuscitations of actively dying people (also controversial in this regard). Acid base balance of the blood is the entire purpose of breathing and is way too complicated for this discussion.


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[Dantheman]

Try holding your breath and see what happens.

I don't even do the Wim Hof breathing that often, but after a few rounds of the breathing I can reliably do 40-50 pushups with empty lungs. Hypocapnia is a hell of a drug.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

Interesting results.

I was ruminating on the quad failure XavierD brought up earlier while coming down on a quad-busting steep and technical trail run over the weekend. It seems plausible that quad strength, above a certain modest baseline, doesn't matter much in the context of the extreme eccentric loading of skiing. Maybe even "front squat 300 for 20 reps"-strong quads easily wilt in the face of unrelenting eccentric loads.

That has been my experience. I treat leg blasters a sport specific conditioning and have yet to find anything that replicates the unique combination of lactate threshold and eccentric loading ( eccentric muscle endurance almost?) that skiing demands. Having a higher top end strength from squats makes leg-blasters a more effective training method and recovery from them much more pleasant I've found, although despite the articles conclusion I wouldn't expect them to improve your top end leg strength really if you're already pretty strong . But I think they (or something similar) are pretty essential if you want to hit the ground running when the lifts start spinning.

[WestCoast]

I don't even do the Wim Hof breathing that often, but after a few rounds of the breathing I can reliably do 40-50 pushups with empty lungs. Hypocapnia is a hell of a drug.

I would wager this is done first set and not after you’ve depleted the glycogen stores in your muscles.


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[Dantheman]

( eccentric muscle endurance almost?)

There's a very specific and especially debilitating type of muscle damage created by eccentric contractions. The Repeated Bout Effect makes you resistant to this kind of damage.

I think steep, technical downhill trail running trumps all, but that's not an option for everyone. For always-available dryland tools, yeah, LBs FTMFW.

I would wager this is done first set and not after you’ve depleted the glycogen stores in your muscles.

Usually only do one set in this context. I can't do anywhere remotely close to that number of reps on empty lungs without doing the breathing first.

[grskier]

Just went down the weird worm hole of when you're looking for a specific video... but can't find it on youtube...

A ski team posted a machine they made for eccentric workouts that looked intriguing.. Can't find that... but did find this gem:



The one I was looking for was basically a reverse pogostick thing that sort of mimicked the above.

[charles martel]

Try this stuff:

https://youtu.be/s2Cg7cTL1EI




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[pow_pow~]

message me for pdfs on www.mtntactical.com ski workouts and some other ones

[alias_rice]

message me for pdfs on www.mtntactical.com ski workouts and some other ones

I used their preseason ski program last year, and am doing the backcountry program now. Lots of leg blasters, lateral box jumps and weighted step ups.

[Dantheman]

Built a slosh pipe yesterday. This thing will put hair on your chest.

[robnow]

30 days of nothing but leg extensions...fuck do I look good in the mirror.

[2FUNKY]

Bump. Snows falling. Hope all you bitches be training.

[TAFKALVS]

Back at it. Cardio in the morning, squats in the evening. Trying to do a lot more circuits and cardio this year to get the conditioning up

[AK47bp]

I ski, then wait 2 days.

The muscles that are sore I workout more.


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[Buster Highmen]

I stopped leg extensions years ago. I have acl recon on the right knee and it's been weak since. Deep knee bends leave my knee feeling shitty, so I've resorted to leg presses and limited squats.

I had been pretty good about keeping up the workout regime until last spring. But then I fell off it. So I'm just getting restarted with an hour and a half split between the cardio starters and leg strength finishers 3-4x a week. My endurance blows right now and I'm old, so I'm working on getting that back. Same with leg strength; rolling around the back roads on the bike this summer just didn't keep me in shape.

[Dantheman]

Bump. Snows falling. Hope all you bitches be training.

RunDown season is fully on.

Built a slosh pipe yesterday. This thing will put hair on your chest.

Still loving this thing.

[TAFKALVS]

Been doing this little post squat prep the legs for ski circuit:
20x box step ups with dumbells
15x squats with dumbells
10x heavy kettlebell stiff leg deadlifts

X5, quickly with no breaks between sets and a minimal pause between repeats.

Anybody else have a fun “finisher” for getting the lactic acid up?