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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    That’s really a hinge, but nice try.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pretzel View Post
    Hamstring curl machines are great, probably better than GHRs

    thank you

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Generally, Iím a big fan of pointing out that exercise selection really doesnít matter to a pointÖ except for this one:

    Please donít waste anyones time with this parlor trick

    Sorry. Rant off.

    Nordic curls are great if you donít have access to a hamstring curl machine. GHRs are another great way to hit knee flexion hamstring work. Generally a good idea for getting not only strong but keeping your knees healthy
    Iím against pistols but not single leg squats. Given some of the comments I think it is worth differentiating the two. Iím with you though on the pistol, the flexibility required and aggravation you can cause to a hip flexor is not worth doing.

    https://youtu.be/fvMbaOX6YQg

    Single leg squats are more difficult to weight but weight vests and chains work. Also you can go pretty high with a goblet hold kettlebell.

    I didnít think a hamstring curl machine is that similar to the muscle activation you get from a Nordic curl? My understanding is that a hamstring curl isolates the activation of the hamstring from the calf, glute, and lower back whereas the Nordic curl still requires far more involvement of the posterior chain.

    Personally if I had to oversimplify a skiers workout to say 3 exercises I think Iíd pick single leg squats, rfess, and kettlebell swings.

  4. #379
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    QUOTE]

    Yeah. Folks with only one leg might want to be good at single leg squatsÖ



    Quote Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
    Attachment 393038

    ^Not a figure skater. Both legs represent terminal ends of the Pistol with independent action.
    How is a high step-up not a better approximation where you can achieve higher loading across almost all athletes? Keep in mind for training skiing the goal is to spend as little time in the gym as possible to achieve the desired increase in strength and stamina? Why would I take hours of an athletes time to train a movement just so they can have a lower loading?

    My guess is if we took a group of similar skiers left a third to do their own thing, a third we focused all squat training with just a simple bilateral back squat and a third we trained pistols for a three to sixth month window before the season the pistols group would be the slowest and least adapted.

    The simple fact is being good at pistols makes you good at pistols and just about nothing else which is pretty shit for a movement which is difficult and requires someone to spend a bunch of time learning.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    QUOTE]
    The simple fact is being good at pistols makes you good at pistols and just about nothing else which is pretty shit for a movement which is difficult and requires someone to spend a bunch of time learning.
    Yep, similar reasoning as to why a power clean or hang clean are generally better for athletes than learning a full clean or snatch. Why waste the time learning a super technical movement when you could dumb that movement down to its most basic power-producing components and progressively overload those is a safer, quicker, and more stable manner?

  6. #381
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    Pistols can be a useful rehab exercise for people who are pretty strong but have glute med imbalance/ recruitment issues. They work just fine when holding onto a ring or strap for balance (no need to master the movement like Jackie Chan).

    They are not a squat replacement.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  7. #382
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    Pistols as a theme can be programmed in many variants. You don't need as a prerequisite to ski, be an ass to grass champion in the pistol. For many ppl they help in biasing the balance towards vestibular and visual contributions as the dual somatosensory input is absent. The demands are different and can expand the total volume of training by averting over / repetitive stress of leg day being mostly about Squat / DL. Being novel, they draw upon a more neural recrement pattern & break up training routine.

    Lastly, most skiers spend hours pouring over dumb stuff online, learning a new exercise is never foolhardy utilization of time.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
    Pistols as a theme can be programmed in many variants. You don't need as a prerequisite to ski, be an ass to grass champion in the pistol. For many ppl they help in biasing the balance towards vestibular and visual contributions as the dual somatosensory input is absent. The demands are different and can expand the total volume of training by averting over / repetitive stress of leg day being mostly about Squat / DL. Being novel, they draw upon a more neural recrement pattern & break up training routine.

    Lastly, most skiers spend hours pouring over dumb stuff online, learning a new exercise is never foolhardy utilization of time.
    So I've been being a smartass, sorry.

    Nothing wrong with unique exercises, even those that are more about balance and form, to break up a workout. Keeps it interesting and fun, and stabilizing muscles are important to target. Anything that requires balance stimulates those and is great in that regard.

    Personally, I would not classify pistols as a core move. They would be a fun alternative now and then in my world. For skiers I would put the lower body exercises in these groups:

    Most important:
    Squats
    Deadlifts

    Almost as important:
    Hip Thrusts
    Split Squats
    Lunges

    Next:
    Hamstring Curls
    Side Lunges
    Front Squats
    Good Mornings or another type of lower back work

    Don't forget:
    Calf Raises (protects the knee)
    In and out side leg kicks (takes care of the hip and groin stabilizing muscles
    Balance Ball BW one legged squats (help stabilize knee)

    Then Variations for fun, stabilization, keeping the muscles from getting too comfortable, etc:
    Pistols
    Single Leg RDL
    Single Leg Squats
    Leg Extensions
    Leg Press
    Hinge
    Etc
    Etc
    Etc

    Then, of course, there's still core and upper body work.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    So I've been being a smartass, sorry.

    Nothing wrong with unique exercises, even those that are more about balance and form, to break up a workout. Keeps it interesting and fun, and stabilizing muscles are important to target. Anything that requires balance stimulates those and is great in that regard.

    Personally, I would not classify pistols as a core move. They would be a fun alternative now and then in my world. For skiers I would put the lower body exercises in these groups:

    Most important:
    Squats
    Deadlifts

    Almost as important:
    Hip Thrusts
    Split Squats
    Lunges

    Next:
    Hamstring Curls
    Side Lunges
    Front Squats
    Good Mornings or another type of lower back work

    Don't forget:
    Calf Raises (protects the knee)
    In and out side leg kicks (takes care of the hip and groin stabilizing muscles
    Balance Ball BW one legged squats (help stabilize knee)

    Then Variations for fun, stabilization, keeping the muscles from getting too comfortable, etc:
    Pistols
    Single Leg RDL
    Single Leg Squats
    Leg Extensions
    Leg Press
    Hinge
    Etc
    Etc
    Etc

    Then, of course, there's still core and upper body work.
    For purely skiers, id put frontsquat ahead of backsquat. Skiing is super quad dominant with an upright torso, and its really hard to acheive similar body positioning with a backsquat without really good mobility. And, you can load and progressivly overload front squat just as easy (if not easier because its technically an easier lift than BS) than a backsquat. If your upper back is failing on FS, then its likely also failing you on BS. that said, both are great, both fill the same slot, and both should be done as alternative training cycles to your preferred squat.

    Also, hip thrusts are great if you have trouble activating your glutes. But not neccessary. I do a quick set of glute bridges on the floor prior to squating and get better activation and loading squating that i did with hipthrusts... minus the PITA setup.

    Deadlifts are the most applicable exercise to life. period. But im currently not doing them. With a newborn at home and increased job responsibilities, nofuckingway my CNS can recover from squating and pulling heavy.... so im choosing to build up my squat for the preseason. I always had trouble recovering from deadlifts, but love being strong in them.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    So I've been being a smartass, sorry.

    Nothing wrong with unique exercises, even those that are more about balance and form, to break up a workout. Keeps it interesting and fun, and stabilizing muscles are important to target. Anything that requires balance stimulates those and is great in that regard.

    Personally, I would not classify pistols as a core move. They would be a fun alternative now and then in my world. For skiers I would put the lower body exercises in these groups:

    Most important:
    Squats
    Deadlifts

    Almost as important:
    Hip Thrusts
    Split Squats
    Lunges

    Next:
    Hamstring Curls
    Side Lunges
    Front Squats
    Good Mornings or another type of lower back work

    Don't forget:
    Calf Raises (protects the knee)
    In and out side leg kicks (takes care of the hip and groin stabilizing muscles
    Balance Ball BW one legged squats (help stabilize knee)

    Then Variations for fun, stabilization, keeping the muscles from getting too comfortable, etc:
    Pistols
    Single Leg RDL
    Single Leg Squats
    Leg Extensions
    Leg Press
    Hinge
    Etc
    Etc
    Etc

    Then, of course, there's still core and upper body work.
    Hey man, I wonít yuck ur yum, as my 10 year old would say. Good on ya for having a physical practice!

    That said, Iíd toss in some Pistols

  11. #386
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    Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

    Iíve been blown away how much it has helped getting a membership to a gym has helped me get back on track. Pre-Covid I built a decent home gym out but Iíve been super inconsistent, basically just barely hanging onto a strength base built over 7-8 years and cardio falling. Having 2 kids under three has been my main scape goat but since joining a commercial gym things have gotten a lot better. It helps that the gym has a really good ďdaycareĒ where you can drop your kids for 90 minutes while you workout, play tennis, etc (and a really good daycare at that which usually has staff ratios of 1-2). It feels good to get back over 400lbs for reps doing hex deadlifts and adding weight to chin ups. Which brings me to my point.

    The best program is generally the one you do 3 times a week 50 weeks a year. You can have a pretty shitty program and unless it injures you, the consistent one will beat out the greatest, most effective one that is not done consistently.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Last edited by neufox47; 11-17-2021 at 11:22 PM.

  12. #387
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    Do people have any mobility routines they recommend to follow through their season? Getting older and I find after 5+ days in a row I can be feeling pretty beat up.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    I’ve been blown away how much it has helped getting a membership to a gym has helped me get back on track. Pre-Covid I built a decent home gym out but I’ve been super inconsistent, basically just barely hanging onto a strength base built over 7-8 years and cardio falling. Having 2 kids under three has been my main scape goat but since joining a commercial gym things have gotten a lot better. It helps that the gym has a really good “daycare” where you can drop your kids for 90 minutes while you workout, play tennis, etc (and a really good daycare at that which usually has staff ratios of 1-2). It feels good to get back over 400lbs for reps doing hex deadlifts and adding weight to chin ups. Which brings me to my point.

    The best program is generally the one you do 3 times a week 50 weeks a year. You can have a pretty shitty program and unless it injures you, the consistent one will beat out the greatest, most effective one that is not done consistently.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    This is it right here. 100%.

    For me it was the opposite. Years and years of serious training gyms. My lovely wife was a diehard about it. I, while I made time once or twice a week, was much less consistent.

    We changed to a gym in the garage for Covid and that made all the difference for me. Rather than doing my base stuff and getting out I’m sticking to a real program I’m putting together.

    Whatever works for you is awesome. The location and the moves matter a whole lot less than the fact that you are doing it.
    Last edited by EWG; 11-18-2021 at 12:37 PM.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamski View Post
    Do people have any mobility routines they recommend to follow through their season? Getting older and I find after 5+ days in a row I can be feeling pretty beat up.
    Reduce volume. Adding in more stressors (IE mobility work) isn’t going to help you feel better. If you replace some loading with yoga or similar that might help you move better but adding more is almost never a solution to recovery.

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Reduce volume. Adding in more stressors (IE mobility work) isn’t going to help you feel better. If you replace some loading with yoga or similar that might help you move better but adding more is almost never a solution to recovery.
    Fair enough. Iím trying to find a balance between strength building and injury prevention. I might look in to tweaking my routine to simplify things and work in more rest.

  16. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamski View Post
    Do people have any mobility routines they recommend to follow through their season? Getting older and I find after 5+ days in a row I can be feeling pretty beat up.
    I think xxx-er or someone posted this years ago-works for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDQNqZMv1V0
    Deep release for hips, hamstrings and lower back

  17. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post



    My guess is if we took a group of similar skiers left a third to do their own thing, a third we focused all squat training with just a simple bilateral back squat and a third we trained pistols for a three to sixth month window before the season the pistols group would be the slowest and least adapted.

    The simple fact is being good at pistols makes you good at pistols and just about nothing else which is pretty shit for a movement which is difficult and requires someone to spend a bunch of time learning.
    This! ^^

    The fact is, you only need "The big four"

    Squats, bench, deadlift and military press. These are everything you need and all serious strength training is built around these lifts. The added exercises are just to aid progression in these lifts.
    Last edited by LiveLarger; 11-18-2021 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Fixed bad quoting

  18. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveLarger View Post
    Squats, bench, deadlift and military press. These are everything you need and all serious strength training is built around these lifts. The added exercises are just to aid progression in these lifts.
    Go find a bunch of pro athletes focusing on progressive overload of these four lifts. If by ďserious strength trainingĒ you mean people training for powerlifting, sure. But the big four (baseball, football, basketball, hockey)? No way.

  19. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Go find a bunch of pro athletes focusing on progressive overload of these four lifts. If by “serious strength training” you mean people training for powerlifting, sure. But the big four (baseball, football, basketball, hockey)? No way.
    15-20 years ago somebody did a pretty big study looking at max deadlift #'s fro D1 wrestlers. There was no correlation with winning. My theory on this is that once you're strong "enough," more time spent developing max strength only reduces your capacity to recover from other kinds of training.

    Walter Jones, the Hall of fame left tackle, trained in the offseason by pushing his Escalade up a hill. That was it.

  20. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    Walter Jones, the Hall of fame left tackle, trained in the offseason by pushing his Escalade up a hill. That was it.
    isnít that basically the movement a tackle does anyway?

  21. #396
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    Specificity is indeed critical. The best sports training will always be doing that sport. Your strength specific work should be designed to support and enable that training, not replace it.

    A simple squat, hip hinge, and upper push and pull exercise in the weight room are great for building the size and power those athletes need because they are easily repeatable, and easy to progress with small increments. It’s also a lot more efficient and safe for someone to go hit the weight room than push an Escalade up a hill.
    Last edited by XavierD; 11-19-2021 at 12:37 AM.

  22. #397
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    Specificity is critical, no doubt about it, but it's much more efficient to build general strength and then start doing specific exercises, if you already have a solid base. When it comes to EG skiing, all the top racers in the WC trains squats and with some serious weight.

    Take a look on this video, the greatest skier of all time, Svindal training. Basically things like one legged squats are considered a balance exercise. The stuff with the chains are very interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoIdYjw3u7M

  23. #398
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    Week-long bouts with adenovirus are not conducive to fitness goals. Been on my ass for a week with the usual sinus crap and copious lung boogers, plus conjunctivitis and an inner ear infection. Going to take weeks to get back to baseline, ugh.

  24. #399
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    Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Week-long bouts with adenovirus are not conducive to fitness goals. Been on my ass for a week with the usual sinus crap and copious lung boogers, plus conjunctivitis and an inner ear infection. Going to take weeks to get back to baseline, ugh.
    I once rode a 24 hour race solo with a bad virus. Left it all out of the course. Turned out to be a terrible idea. Broke down a bunch of my muscle fiber, lost 15 pounds, wasnít right for nearly 2 years.

    Better to spend a week or two going easy. Stay on the right path.
    Last edited by EWG; 11-20-2021 at 09:03 PM.

  25. #400
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    Holy shit, that's gnarly. Upside, I stared watching The Expanse and have gotten through almost two seasons.

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