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09-11-2018, 01:31 PM #26Registered User
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Plyos should come after base fitness with aerobic, strength and mobility is sound.
Then, they should be periodized.
Real question: do you ski with plyos? I mean, do you jump?
I ask because plyos happened to train fast twitch muscle fiber. Now, do you really use the fast-twitch would you ski. World Cup racers do. Competitive snowboarder too. But, do you really use that. I tend to think they're a little bit over shoot and misdirection for training for the average skier.
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09-11-2018, 01:32 PM #27
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09-11-2018, 01:32 PM #28Banned
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BGs and Rx ski dat crap with ease too. I was just wondering if exercise could make those difficult ski conditions more fun, I love making difficult stuff easier and more fun.
AUVgeek nailed the answer for me, Technique and predictable skis. So now I dont waste my time.
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09-11-2018, 01:40 PM #29Registered User
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09-11-2018, 01:43 PM #30Rod9301
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I used to squat, almost 400 lbs then my knees started to hurt so I started leg presses, about 700 lbs.
Then my knees hurt again.
I tried electro muscle stimulation, and it works well.
I am as strong as when I was lifting heavy, but no joint stress at all.
Once a year I get on the leg press, to verify that I'm not getting weaker, and I still do 12 reps at 14 plates or about 700 pounds
I do esm for 6 weeks, twice a year, before ski and mountain bike season, then very short sessions, once a week during season for maintenance
I find that, even with skiing 100 days a year, I did get where throughout the season if I don't do the maintenance.
The sessions are pretty hard core, you see muscle contractions far stronger than anything else I've done. Definitely can't watch TV or read while you're doing it.
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09-11-2018, 01:44 PM #31
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09-11-2018, 01:45 PM #32Banned
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Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless
I dont ever pay attention to that, and my technique definitely isnt the best. I could be using fast twitch, when I shouldnt be..
I just meant for those little upwards motions you use to get up and over difficult 3D snow. Not bigger box jumps and stuff.
Today is a light weight day. I try to get in that amount for a light day, just less sets on each exercise, and cover all parts of the muscles. On heavy days I stick to 3 main movements, back squat, deadlift, and leg press or something else.
I dont train for skiing, which does negatively affect my skiing unfortunately. But I put up with it.
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09-11-2018, 01:47 PM #33Registered User
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I do know who I am talking to.
Chill, dude.
If you need plyos, by all means. But, you do understand they should be part of a periodized regimen. And, they are not for everyone. You know that, right?
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09-11-2018, 01:50 PM #34Banned
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Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless
Are plyos better for skiers who go hamm?
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09-11-2018, 01:51 PM #35Registered User
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I get it. Did not mean to insult you, at all. Sorry.
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09-11-2018, 01:51 PM #36Registered User
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+1 to what Auvgeek said.
We are all SO quad dominant (develops strength imbalances structurally around knee and hips) that we really need to focus on the posterior muscles (hamstrings, glutes) which will ultimately put less strain on the joints, not more. Leg extensions are almost solely for bodybuilding aesthetics (higher reps for hypertrophy and 'pump'). I'd even argue that any doctor/athletic therapist that actually knows training and rehab would stay away from leg extensions and focus on other exercises for time better spent. The only time I could see leg extensions being useful for rehab is if the patient had some neurological damage and they were teaching the patient to get some feel or activation.
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09-11-2018, 01:52 PM #37
Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless
I know I eat, shit, and sleep plyos, cuz I’m fuckin amazing
Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!
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09-11-2018, 01:54 PM #38Banned
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Youre fine, you didnt insult me. I didnt even think you meant skiing fast, I thought you meant certain styles and movements.
What you are saying makes sense, but I think I do fall into the category that does use fast twitch while skiing. Im not the greatest skier, but like to ski that particular way.
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09-11-2018, 01:55 PM #39
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09-11-2018, 01:57 PM #40Banned
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Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless
Thanks, that’s exactly what I meant
Attachment 246995
I go Hamm’s every night
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09-11-2018, 02:00 PM #41Registered User
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Squats are King.
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09-11-2018, 02:08 PM #42Registered User
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And to add to his list of exercises, ideally one has access to Safety bars and Trap/Hex bars.
Safety squats - more closely resemble front squats without the need to have the required shoulder flexibility
Hex/Trap bar deadlifts - excellent for beginners to learn their 'hip hinge' and to progress their flexibility from a high bar to a low bar position, and for advanced lifters to increase load.
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09-11-2018, 02:14 PM #43Registered User
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Yeah, I don't have access to a safety bar, so I didn't include it. Broke my wrist skiing and never regained full mobility so I front squat with straps and I can't C&J (or do regular pushups). Oh well
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09-11-2018, 02:21 PM #44Registered User
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Same, have a bone chip in one elbow which doesn't allow as much flexion as the other so I really like incorporating what I call Frankensteins (or Truckdrivers) with bar resting on front of shoulders and arms outstretched straight ahead...or cross grip (but they cause a bit of a twist). I can't even do straps comfortably.
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09-11-2018, 02:24 PM #45Registered User
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Sounds right.
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09-11-2018, 02:32 PM #46
Yeah, it was joke, should thrown in a winky.
For stomping airs I think heavy power cleans might have an edge. My back (not my spine, the muscles) is usually more sore than my legs after a day of jumping off stuff. Cleans work that stuff harder, and I think the extra explosiveness is helpful.
Love the headspace you have to get into for a heavy set of 5 back squats, though.
Such a great line. Clavicle plate mostly prevents me from front squatting as well. At lighter weights I can cheat it a bit with my arms and keep the bar off it, but when it gets heavy it's ow ow ow owwwwww. I don't lose any sleep over it, it's a more quad dominant move and as discussed most of us are quad-heavy already.
Heh, I mostly considering lifting (all gym training, really) to be a necessary evil required to keep skiing and biking hard.
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09-11-2018, 02:45 PM #47Registered User
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I can't clean as mentioned above so I do the drop snatch. Similarly amazing for stomping airs, IMHO. Explosive, eccentric, and requires your trunk stabilize a weight. And less technique/mobility required than for a full snatch. Just an idea for anyone else who can't clean.
Exactly! I usually do that, honestly. I don't know much about lifting to know that was a thing -- I got the idea from this amazing video of Pyrros Dimas training, around the 6:50 mark he walks the bar to the rack in that "frankenstein" position. (Talk about speed, my god.)
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09-11-2018, 02:47 PM #48Registered User
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Oh shit, NOW you've opened up a can of worms, haha. It gets technical (hip and knee angles, muscle activation) but essentially a multitude of studies have shown there is no significant difference in muscle activation between front and back squats.
And I would argue for stomping airs that DEEP squats are key (yes power cleans are deep squats but NOBODY, except for Pyrros is doing them properly) for developing both the strength in the bottom range of motion and flexibility/stability of the knee.
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09-11-2018, 02:52 PM #49
Its. all. core.
Move upside and let the man go through...
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09-11-2018, 02:55 PM #50Registered User
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