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  1. #801
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    Just got the email. It'll be interesting to see if the local passes expand to weekends as they were weekday only this year.... and if the prices remain the same. Won't fix everything but might help.

    My IKON + parking came in close to $2k this year so it's pretty easy to do the math and see there're some savings out there. If it was $1k to ski and park unlimitedly I'd still have a thousand left to ski elsewhere which I'll have done very little of this year by the time it's all over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  2. #802
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    I think the Ikon base limitation is a gesture at acknowledging the problem that will have little practical impact. I'm sure Crystal/Alterra know the numbers on how many Crystal users are out of-area people using the Ikon Base pass to ski there, but my sense is that most of the crowds at Crystal are people who live locally in the Puget Sound and this move is just going to extract a few hundred more dollars from the same people or shunt them to Crystal mountain passes without appreciably changing the number of people on the mountain.

    I just don't believe that the problems with crowds at Crystal are a) driven by people from outside the Puget Sound metro area and/or b) people who are buying $729 passes can't/won't also buy $999 passes.

    Not sure there's a better solution that exists, really, but at least they're trying I guess.

  3. #803
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    Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

    I’d buy a non-Ikon Crystal pass with weekends and blackouts for $700. But it sounds like they will trying to squeeze $1000 out of me.

    Maybe it’s time to go back to an Alpy Pass...


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  4. #804
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    Oct 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    I’d buy a non-Ikon Crystal pass with weekends and blackouts for $700. But it sounds like they will trying to squeeze $1000 out of me.

    Maybe it’s time to go back to an Alpy Pass...


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    I think this will be the result. I know a number of people who switched from Alpental to Crystal because of the extra perks for a couple hundred extra. Now that it's $400 more, I expect some will come back. Last season (pre Covid), Saturdays at Alpental were noticeably less busy due to the Ikon shift.

  5. #805
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptavv View Post
    I just don't believe that the problems with crowds at Crystal are a) driven by people from outside the Puget Sound metro area and/or b) people who are buying $729 passes can't/won't also buy $999 passes.

    Not sure there's a better solution that exists, really, but at least they're trying I guess.
    You might be right on this but as you said I guess at least they’re trying. The only other option I can think of is to go to a full time reservation system which would be wildly unpopular.

    Just FYI for those who think ski resorts are ripping you off, I work in finance and have see the financials of many ski resorts including some of the local ones. They don’t make much money at all. That being said I’ve never seen the financials of the mega corps so their situation may be different but I doubt it is substantially. As the saying goes... the best way to become a millionaire in the ski industry is to start as a billionaire.


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  6. #806
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    ^^^ yet the megas continue to buy and operate them. There must be something in it for them or you'd think they'd bail out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  7. #807
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    The giant resort corporations are mostly publicly traded companies whose SEC filings show you their financials. Vail Resorts are all here: http://investors.vailresorts.com/qua...annual-results

    The pandemic has been terrible for their bottom line, but they're still making money and not just because they sell real estate or also own hotels and resorts, their mountains turn a profit (say what you will about how they manage their mountains).

    I'm sure there are scale effects and no one thinks that any Vail resorts properties currently embody or demonstrate the "soul of skiing" that we all remember with nostalgia, but with their expensive amenities, high cost lift tickets, lessons, etc etc. they do turn a profit.

    Since mountain expenses are largely fixed, the push towards mega passes is a way for the large corporations that are diversified into hospitality to generate more revenue from travelers. The mega passes also help distribute the "cost" of servicing each one across more mountains and lock in a fixed return for the company from a lot of people who buy the passes and only use them for 1-2 trips per year.

    Worth remembering that most of the skiing in the US is done at resorts with substantial lodging / condo / housing footprints at, or much more near, the ski area than what we have in Washington state which drives a totally different model for the companies.

  8. #808
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    Jun 2007
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    Cruzing
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    I’d buy a non-Ikon Crystal pass with weekends and blackouts for $700. But it sounds like they will trying to squeeze $1000 out of me.

    Maybe it’s time to go back to an Alpy Pass...


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    Would seem smart to offer a Crystal Only Pass for $729 with blackout dates. Can’t see how that would hurt Aterra, and it would help keep the cost low for those who do not plan to ski during the holidays.

    On another note, I’m working on setting up an ikon Group Buy again this year. Will save a little off that $999 price, but don’t yet know the details. Will post up once I do.

  9. #809
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    Oct 2017
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    523

    Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

    Quote Originally Posted by Stairmaster View Post
    Prices needed to increase? Please explain this logic. Seattle folks will gladly shell out more money to ski and the price bump won't decrease demand. It's a dog and pony show. Guess you're stoked to see the suits in corpo land make more money.

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    It cost me I think $550 to renew on Ikon base this year. I could be off slightly but it wasn’t any more than $600. That allowed me unlimited skiing without blackouts at Crystal plus a shit ton of days at a bunch of other resorts including 5 at Apental. I used to in the pre Ikon days pay more than that for just Crystal alone.

    I just checked and it looks like it’s $109 for a weekend day pass in April which if I’m not mistaken is actually way less than it was last year when you could buy jan/feb weekend passes. Even at the reduced price it takes only 5 days to breakeven. That is basically nothing even for many casual skiers.

    People ski less if they have shell out money for each day. If they have a pass then they might as well go cause it’s “free.” The mega corps figured this out which is why the jacked up day tickets and dropped seasons pass prices.

    I’m not saying this will solve things but we *might* have less seasons passes next year at the higher cost. Not everyone will drop but some probably will. If we’re lucky crowds might shrink 10-20%. Or maybe they won’t and we can finally get some more chairlifts in this state that we desperately need.


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  10. #810
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    Feb 2017
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairmaster View Post
    Prices needed to increase? Please explain this logic. Seattle folks will gladly shell out more money to ski and the price bump won't decrease demand. It's a dog and pony show. Guess you're stoked to see the suits in corpo land make more money.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
    Agreed. I don't think that $1000 for "unlimited" crystal will deter many ikon buyers. An extra $250 isn't a big deal to many crystal skiers, especially when you are getting an additional 2 days at alpental without blackouts.

    I'm really curious how reservations will be handled next season. Have to imagine they are here to stay for crystal?

  11. #811
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    Jan 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    Would seem smart to offer a Crystal Only Pass for $729 with blackout dates. Can’t see how that would hurt Aterra, and it would help keep the cost low for those who do not plan to ski during the holidays.

    On another note, I’m working on setting up an ikon Group Buy again this year. Will save a little off that $999 price, but don’t yet know the details. Will post up once I do.
    Sweet man, thanks for setting this up.

    On another note, I would say that Seattle is one of the most complicated places to decide which pass to buy. I hemmed and hawed over this last year. I think getting a Summit Pass makes a lot of sense as it's so easy to jump up there for a half-day, but the Ikon vs. Epic debate makes it really hard to decide. You've got the US-2 shitshow at Steven's and the patroller fights (which are totally justified), but you also get Whistler if you're going to make that trip. Then you've got Crystal which has the tech bro and parking issue, but also includes some days at Summit (so you could get a midweek Summit pass and then use 7 days from Ikon on the weekends for example). This year was a bit easier with the border closed down, but I'm not sure about next year.

    This avoids all the questions about if you travel too whether you want to be on Epic vs. Ikon. Ikon is clearly better if you want to go to Utah, but Epic is better for Colorado. California is sort of a wash between Kirkwood and Squaw / Mammoth, but I'd say favors Ikon overall and Canada is the reverse (WB + Fernie + KH vs. Revy).

  12. #812
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    Oct 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptavv View Post
    The giant resort corporations are mostly publicly traded companies whose SEC filings show you their financials. Vail Resorts are all here: http://investors.vailresorts.com/qua...annual-results

    The pandemic has been terrible for their bottom line, but they're still making money and not just because they sell real estate or also own hotels and resorts, their mountains turn a profit (say what you will about how they manage their mountains).

    I'm sure there are scale effects and no one thinks that any Vail resorts properties currently embody or demonstrate the "soul of skiing" that we all remember with nostalgia, but with their expensive amenities, high cost lift tickets, lessons, etc etc. they do turn a profit.

    Since mountain expenses are largely fixed, the push towards mega passes is a way for the large corporations that are diversified into hospitality to generate more revenue from travelers. The mega passes also help distribute the "cost" of servicing each one across more mountains and lock in a fixed return for the company from a lot of people who buy the passes and only use them for 1-2 trips per year.

    Worth remembering that most of the skiing in the US is done at resorts with substantial lodging / condo / housing footprints at, or much more near, the ski area than what we have in Washington state which drives a totally different model for the companies.
    Vail is the only "mega" that is public. Alterra and Boyne are both privately held, though both have outside investors and are not "mom and pop" shops. Unlikely the unwashed masses would be able to get their financials.

    As we've said before, WA does not have any ski resorts. We have ski hills. Adding tubing and running lifts/gondis in the summer does not make you a resort. The financial analysis on our local hills cannot be compared to Vail's standard "resort" that has a mountain town, year round accommodations, golf courses, summer concerts, etc.

  13. #813
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    Jan 2005
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    Keep Tacoma Feared
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ow_My_Balls View Post
    For the local passes, it seems like it will be the same as this year...full access early/late season, but weekdays only from Christmas until March.
    They have the terms of next year's Local Pass (midweek pass) posted:

    https://www.crystalmountainresort.co.../season-passes

    With the mid week locals pass ($550 if new pass, not renewal) you are blacked out on weekends November through Feb, then unlimited use in March and April.

  14. #814
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNW_Skier206 View Post
    Prices needed to increase at Crystal unfortunately. The refusal to build a new ski resort has created this problem at all WA ski resorts which Ikon/Vail only made worse. I don’t like spending more money anymore than the next guy but the price was unsustainably low.


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    There's so much money in WA, especially in King County, that it will have zero impact on skier visits. Will only help the bottom line. Alterra will find additional ways to generate revenue for Xtal. No doubt they are brainstorming on their weekly Zoom conf. calls how to extract more cash from their customers. Of that you can be absolutely certain.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  15. #815
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    Oct 2003
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    Warrrrrrrshington
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    No doubt they are brainstorming on their weekly Zoom conf. calls how to extract more cash from their customers.
    "the F in F lot stands for free, any other lot? that'll cost ya" - CM zoom call, probably.

  16. #816
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    Oct 2010
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    Seattle
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    271
    Quote Originally Posted by ptavv View Post
    I just don't believe that the problems with crowds at Crystal are a) driven by people from outside the Puget Sound metro area and/or b) people who are buying $729 passes can't/won't also buy $999 passes.
    This. Been skiing at Crystal for 40+ years and this is not a mountain that non-locals seek out. Why would you when for basically the same price you could hit Whistler, SLC or CO? Hopefully the price bump will get some people to not re-up and stick to day passes only for the "good" days which in turn should make the average days much more enjoyable for the regulars.
    You Will Respect My Authoritah!

  17. #817
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    523
    Quote Originally Posted by timeo View Post
    This. Been skiing at Crystal for 40+ years and this is not a mountain that non-locals seek out. Why would you when for basically the same price you could hit Whistler, SLC or CO? Hopefully the price bump will get some people to not re-up and stick to day passes only for the "good" days which in turn should make the average days much more enjoyable for the regulars.
    Yup that’s what I’m hoping.


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  18. #818
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    Jan 2005
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    Keep Tacoma Feared
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    Crystal responded to my question of whether you get renewal discount if you go from Ikon to a Crystal Pass (like a Local or Hall Pass) or from Crystal Pass to Ikon pass:

    We have taken a look and the two passes are totally separate. We are not able to offer the renewal price if someone switches from ikon to crystal or vice versa.

    Kristin Wiseman

    Guest Experience Manager
    E: kwiseman@skicrystal.com
    O: 360.663.3014

  19. #819
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    Jul 2006
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    Needed to happen. Some folks will continue to pay for Crystal but it doesn’t take a huge percentage to opt out towards an epic or alpy pass to make a significant difference on hill. With an open border hopefully more than a handful will now go epic for Whistler access.

    It’s still a little undervalued IMO, but some parking fees would help to. It would also enable some revenue generation and cost analysis on the several hundred cars who are their to tour/snowshoe/sled and make the experience worse for pass holders / ticket buyers.

    I’ll I want is consistency and transparency in pass offerings and policies over the season. Not changing up offerings and restrictions mid season.

  20. #820
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    Sep 2008
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Needed to happen. Some folks will continue to pay for Crystal but it doesn’t take a huge percentage to opt out towards an epic or alpy pass to make a significant difference on hill. With an open border hopefully more than a handful will now go epic for Whistler access.

    It’s still a little undervalued IMO, but some parking fees would help to. It would also enable some revenue generation and cost analysis on the several hundred cars who are their to tour/snowshoe/sled and make the experience worse for pass holders / ticket buyers.

    I’ll I want is consistency and transparency in pass offerings and policies over the season. Not changing up offerings and restrictions mid season.
    They can’t require payment to park in lots on leased public lands.


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  21. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyromaniacman129 View Post
    They can’t require payment to park in lots on leased public lands.

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    Sure they can, and currently do.

  22. #822
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    Nov 2006
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    Seattle
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    I'm wondering what will happen to 20/21 IKON holders with crystal as their home mountain who deferred?

    Will they get a credit that allows them to only ski 5 days at crystal in 21/22? Will they have to upgrade IKON to get unlimited skiing at crystal even though the product they deferred gave them unlimited skiing at a cheaper price than it will for 21/22?

    That would be a pretty shitty thing for IKON and crystal to do but it wouldn't be a big surprise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  23. #823
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    Dec 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post

    Kristin Wiseman

    Guest Experience Manager
    E: kwiseman@skicrystal.com
    Her office is right at the end of the corridor level G basement
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  24. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Her office is right at the end of the corridor level G basement
    Name:  Image1615076561.249294.jpg
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  25. #825
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    Sep 2007
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    67
    Quote Originally Posted by pyromaniacman129 View Post
    They can’t require payment to park in lots on leased public lands.
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    Wrong.

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