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  1. #451
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    Dec 2003
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    I was talked into taking that 3rd lap JP...
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  2. #452
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    burblandia
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    Haha I know you knew better! I had the perfect 2 and out back there that morning.
    Our great works of human enterprise will fade away with time. The mountain will endure. ~nps

  3. #453
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    Pretty sure jerry didn't know where that 3rd lap was anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  4. #454
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    closer
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    i love this thread. I'm still waiting for our ikon overlords to arrive in europe with full force.
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  5. #455
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Cruzing
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    This seems like a fore gone conclusion for next year. So of the Alterra owned resorts with blackout dates (Squaw, Mammoth, Solitude, ect) can you buy a season pass with no black out dates? If so, how much more is that season pass? Next year, I expect Ikon to be limited at Crystal with a very expensive unlimited season pass option available. I doubt it will have much effect on crowds though. Crystal pass holders are some of the wealthiest skiers on earth (Seattle/Bellevue/Redmond tech wealth) and Crystal is really the only ski area in the state that appeals to the masses.
    Not sure if this is answered properly later in thread. Yíall are moving too fast for me to keep up.

    Full Ikon is $300 more. Base prices were $649 and $949 back in March.

    Squaw/Mammoth have blackout dates. I donít think Solitude does. Which seems dumb. When I saw Crystal was bought and would not have blackout dates, I thought it would be a shit show up there with Seattle and all. No surprise.

    Aspen and partner reports have the limited number of days (5 or 7). Aspen skiers buy an Aspen Pass and get a free IKON.

    Kirkwood is part of Vail Resorts, but locals made such a stink we. They bought the place they offer a KW Only Pass. It is has no blackouts, but cost the same as the Tahoe Pass (Heavenly, N*, KW with 5 days at other VR Resorts and blackouts). We literally canít even look at another Vail owned resort with our pass.

    Anyway, I doubt Alterra will move backwards. Likely more parking and better access are being planned. Those crowded lodges are a money maker.

  6. #456
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    The from NY part was OTT IMHO.
    Havenít lived in NY since Ď95. But I do agree yíall are a bunch of big Whitney bitches.

  7. #457
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Alpental
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    5,553
    Quote Originally Posted by Northway View Post
    Haha I know you knew better! I had the perfect 2 and out back there that morning.
    hey buddy! hope you and the fam are well.

    someday this season Ill have to use my Ikon locally.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  8. #458
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In a parallel universe
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    4,724
    Quote Originally Posted by JTG4 View Post
    Things could have gone worse, and I didnít get unlucky like many did Sunday.

    No shitstorm of circumstances in our being there last weekend however. On Jan 2nd I checked the ten day forecasts, on Jan 3rd I decided on Seattle and booked tickets, on Jan 8th I settled on Crystal and booked the hotels. A lot of good planning with a little good fortune. Iíve had a high success rate with those kind of trips.
    Yeah, I am glad it worked out for you and by extension to anyone who books a vacation and travels to ski at a far away place.

    The shitstorm or circumstance I referenced above has nothing to do with you however, you were merrily along for the ride. If you approach this the way you might think of chaos theory, pull back and look at the wrinkles:
    1) No new PNW ski areas or significant opening of new terrain in a long time, population density in the Puget Sound continues to grow on the other hand increasing demand and crowds.
    2) Alterra creates the Ikon pass, after having (or in the process of) acquired a number of ski resorts, also including Crystal Mtn, meanwhile selling passes at an apparent high volume making shareholders happy.
    3) Fast forward to the beginning of the PNW ski season which started late and with very little coverage creating region wide pent up demand at all levels of the sport. This includes sold out ski lesson programs that drive volumes higher on weekends.
    4) After a weak December an unprecedented storm cycle rolls through with colder than usual temps creating stress on operations, who, either by poor luck, poor planning and short handedness, or incompetence get caught with their pants down.
    5) Powder fever ensues at a fevered pitch creating bottlenecks and scarcity.

    IMO, Alterra/Ikon contributed significantly to the mess, but wasn't the only factor.

    Your, "I checked the 10 day forecast" comment is telling. Anyone who has lived and skied out here any length of time will tell you the forecasts and models more than two days out are always subject to adjustment, generally down grades. The further out you get, the lower the odds on accuracy. So, at best, you had a 50/50 shot at success.

    The fact that you've had a high ratio of success only means that you've been really lucky. The fact that you think otherwise is hubris and confirmation bias talking.

  9. #459
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    Puget Oceania
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    389
    Lots of good points ACH, it's never a single variable and there are likely more that haven't been mentioned.
    The only issue I would take is with "unprecedented storm cycle" (at least for Crystal, sounds like other areas got quite a bit more snow).
    Chronic Complainer Experiencing Ikon Cognitive Dissonance Since 2018

  10. #460
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullStack View Post
    Lots of good points ACH, it's never a single variable and there are likely more that haven't been mentioned.
    The only issue I would take is with "unprecedented storm cycle" (at least for Crystal, sounds like other areas got quite a bit more snow).
    Yep.

    And it was nearly as big an over attended shit show up there the previous weekend with no big storm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  11. #461
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
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    12,475
    it seems we're parking out earlier and earlier down on our humble volcano too

    admin is monetizing by group sales (buses), team hill rental, encouraging busing/carpooling (in the name of environmental stewardship & reducing parking hassles)

    but this has the effect of increasing ridership into what seems to be a limited arena

    our upper mountain doesn't even run when we're in storm mode




    & we don't have the added pressure of ikonepic

  12. #462
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    panhandle locdog
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    6,686
    The Cascades need at least 3 more ski areas or massive expansion of footprints & parking of current areas to address future growth.

    edit: and transportation infrastructure upgrades. Why many of the slide paths on Highway 2 don't have bollards or snow sheds or both is mind boggling.

  13. #463
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Seattle
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    655
    Perfect shit storm brewing for the holiday weekend:

    Stevens Pass closed EB
    Crystal "sold out"

    Ruh Roh...

  14. #464
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    Apr 2005
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    Seattle
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    1,586
    Dang, guess everyone is going to have to head up to Baker!

  15. #465
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    3,028
    Quote Originally Posted by subtle plague View Post
    i love this thread. I'm still waiting for our ikon overlords to arrive in europe with full force.
    Could you imagine all those Ikon folks from Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, Georgia, the Carolina's and New England states showing up in France, Austria and Swissland? Holy hell, that would be a a nightmare. At least they wouldn't have to worry about the parking situation...
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  16. #466
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    North Bend, WA
    Posts
    682
    I booked another ticket on the luxury coach with departure time of 10:30 from Enumclaw. Ill report back later on whether things work better this time. I would have gotten a 930 departure but in worried about catching it if im leaving maple valley/Covington after 8

    Sent from my SM-G973U using TGR Forums mobile app

  17. #467
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier View Post
    The Cascades need at least 3 more ski areas or massive expansion of footprints & parking of current areas to address future growth.

    edit: and transportation infrastructure upgrades. Why many of the slide paths on Highway 2 don't have bollards or snow sheds or both is mind boggling.
    I don't know where you could put another ski areas in the Washington Cascades that could service Puget Sound. And parking lots are similarly constrained at locations walking distance from the lifts.

    Area lift days is not particularly rising. But the number of areas is decreasing, but maybe not as much as the data indicates.

    http://www.nsaa.org/media/303945/visits.pdf
    http://www.nsaa.org/media/378733/participants2019.pdf
    http://www.nsaa.org/media/367755/ski...eason_1819.pdf
    http://www.nsaa.org/press/industry-stats/

  18. #468
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    Dec 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iowagriz View Post
    Does that airstrip still exist in the valley near the Skookum Flats trailhead? I can't imagine it is used in the winter.
    It does. I assume people a camping there, as a VW was broken down on the exit causing a backup of angry pick-up trucks. Using it as a free lot/overflow on busy weekends makes sense.

    I have a Go-Fund-Me for reopening Mt Pilchuck.

  19. #469
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    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greydon Clark View Post
    It does. I assume people a camping there, as a VW was broken down on the exit causing a backup of angry pick-up trucks. Using it as a free lot/overflow on busy weekends makes sense.
    They'd need to widen the bridge first.

    Hopefully the bureaucratic difficulty of doing that across the White River will prevent it happening because we don't need that many extra people. Replacing damaged bridges has been so prohibitively difficult that they haven't been replaced/now no longer exist.

    (there is a huge new environmental/erosion study of this whole stretch of the river just kicking off at the moment.. so years down the road...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  20. #470
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Sea Level
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    3,655
    And dig a half-dozen pit toilets, which would be on brand for Crystal.
    The trumpet scatters its awful sound Over the graves of all lands Summoning all before the throne

    Death and mankind shall be stunned When Nature arises To give account before the Judge

  21. #471
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    175

  22. #472
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    Sep 2009
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    PNW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greydon Clark View Post
    And dig a half-dozen pit toilets, which would be on brand for Crystal.
    Now we're talkin.
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  23. #473
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Bellingham
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    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Knocker View Post
    I don't know where you could put another ski areas in the Washington Cascades that could service Puget Sound. And parking lots are similarly constrained at locations walking distance from the lifts.
    Back in the 1960's when the NCNP as well as the adjoining Ross Lake Recreation area were being proposed it included the development of a ski area on Ruby Mountain off Hwy 20! Which is absolutely incredible terrain. There were also a number of other development proposals included such as a tram to Price Lake.

    My understanding is that these proposals were included to create support from local communities. Unfortunately the environmentalists who really pushed the bill through stripped out all development at the last moment.

    50 years later the Recreation Area is managed by NCNP who treats it like inviolate wilderness where you can't scrub moss off a boulder much less build a full service ski area

  24. #474
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    Oct 2005
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    There are at least half a dozen areas that could support a small-to-moderate sized ski area from a terrain viewpoint. Almost all of the best places are in the National Forests though. There might be a few areas on timber company land that would be suitable. Getting any of it developed and approved in the cultural context of Western Washington and the era of climate change is a near impossibility though.

  25. #475
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    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    12,475
    Quote Originally Posted by ptavv View Post
    Getting any of it developed and approved in the cultural context of Western Washington and the era of climate change is a near impossibility though.
    this is admittedly a hurdle

    timberline's bike park was held up by environmental groups in a place already designated as rec area

    i can't imagine the efforts needed to open new areas from raw land

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