Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

[PNWbrit]

That mountain is sweet but the management can get bent. Fuck Alterra and their ilk. Fuck the corporate grabs of ski hills. It is ruining skiing.

Yep.

[altasnob]

What are you talking about. Crystal and Alterra are the "heart and soul" of the mountain, at least according to their promotional material:

HEART & SOUL: LESSONS OF THE LAND

In 2020, the Muckleshoot Tribe established a full-time tribal classroom at Crystal Mountain, the first permanent classroom placed on federal land in the country.

Through their classes and programming, the youth of the Muckleshoot Tribe are building strength, resilience, and connection with the mountains as they ski, ride, learn outside and deepen their relationship with the land.

Learn more about their story in our latest Heart & Soul video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bF2WxLPQOg

[Norseman]

What are you talking about. Crystal and Alterra are the "heart and soul" of the mountain, at least according to their promotional material:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bF2WxLPQOg

Somehow this is the first I've heard of this and at first take I vigorously support it.

It doesn't reek like marketing to me like every other part of that place.

In fact I'd like to see much deeper tribal engagement and youth programs in pretty much every direction. Hell, give Crystal to the Puyallup tribe and I bet they'd manage it better than fuckn Alterra, and I'd sure be more willing to spend money there.

[ptavv]

I will eat my shoe if that classroom isn't the quid for some quo involving Crystal/Alterra using tribal resources or land for their own purposes. No shade to the tribes at all, they should extract everything they can at every opportunity from Crystal/Alterra. I just don't believe that the corpos did this for any reason other than their own interest.

[AK47bp]

I will eat my shoe if that classroom isn't the quid for some quo involving Crystal/Alterra using tribal resources or land for their own purposes.

The realist / pessimist in me agrees.


Verified WA tribal members should get lifetime free passes.


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[Norseman]

Yeah probably. Maybe hope got the better of me there. Or the lunchbeer is obscuring my sensors

[altasnob]

The Muckleshoots own all of the logging lands on the way to Crystal (possible development partner down the road), so Alterra is going to treat them right.

Hook those youth on the sport so you can sell them $1,800 season passes and $7k RV spots down the road.

[goCougs]

RV passes sold out

[jacob_dbu]

Was it 7k they decided on?

[Bobcat Sig]

Quoted for emphasis.

I've always been envious of the parking lot camping scene you guys have. Hope this isn't the beginning of more places ruining this.

Count on it. Mt Bachelor long ago moved to a $40/night RV spot, more if you want power. It's the new model for ski areas that don't own their land or operate on USFS leases where they can't build slopeside housing. Gotta get those revenue streams going so they can, erm... pay their patrollers more to open up the hill faster? No, that's not it. It's so they can pay for better parking lot snow removal? No, that's not it either...

Oh, I know, so they can line the pockets of their respective ownership groups.

Or 20-30 nights at Crystal mountain hotels at peak rates, which benefits more then just Altera’s PE investors.

As in, this can become a model to show future investors how much demand there is for slopeside or nearby lodging?

[californiagrown]

Oh, I know, so they can line the pockets of their respective ownership groups.


As in, this can become a model to show future investors how much demand there is for slopeside or nearby lodging?

I own shares of KSL and can assure you that the lining is awfully thin in my pockets.

I believe the main hurdle to development of lodging at the base the lack of is sewer and storm, and the prohibitive price of installing compliant systems.

[altasnob]

They are adding a hotel at the base. From Crystal "reimagined"

HOTEL 1 (2025)

A 100-room hotel will be added with additional dining and conference space.

They just have to kick out that Muckleshoot tribal school yurt first before they start breaking ground

[AK47bp]

They are adding a hotel at the base. From Crystal "reimagined"



They just have to kick out that Muckleshoot tribal school yurt first before they start breaking ground

Well, they will “relocate” them.


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[Northway]

RV passes sold out

Alterra probably kicking themselves for not going with the 9,999.00 price.

[XavierD]

As in, this can become a model to show future investors how much demand there is for slopeside or nearby lodging?

As in, why would I drop $7k when I can just book out my winter in an actual bed in an actual building and not deal with driving an RV/trailer up to the the mountain.

Others seem to have seen the value in it…

[Bobcat Sig]

As in, why would I drop $7k when I can just book out my winter in an actual bed in an actual building and not deal with driving an RV/trailer up to the the mountain.

Others seem to have seen the value in it…

Totally fair. But, like, how are you going to get the 'gram with your quarter-million dollar German van if you're sleeping in a hotel room?

[phatty]

Do we know how many of these reserved spots they were selling? Curious how many went for it. I'll be interested to see how those people with reserved spots get treated (e.g. poop under the handles, etc.).

[XavierD]

Totally fair. But, like, how are you going to get the 'gram with your quarter-million dollar German van if you're sleeping in a hotel room?

To be fair, I’m ugly, so no Instagram future for me.

I do enjoy seeing $90k+ sprinter’s parked within eye sight throw of $300/night hotel rooms with indoor plumbing, central air and often a free breakfast.

[Northway]

…Wealthy Crystal season pass holders…

Then those same wealthy, entitled, long time season pass holders …

This is chump change for them.

You keep saying this. It’s a nice stereotype in your mind, and surely applies to some.

But my crew of ‘long time season pass holders’ is really light on lawyers, doctors, tech bros and dentists (present company excluded).

Yet I spring for A lot and have friends that have had rv passes, for their truck bed camper RV. We’re there, with young kids every weekend day, rain or shine and those things make it manageable, especially through the recent traffic, parking reservation and lodge shit shows.

We grew up brown bagging it in the area formerly known as the brown bag room. I’ve worked up there for passes. We do fine now in adult life, but there’s by no means any chump change.

Yes, given the current state of affairs up there, I advocated for more expensive passes, and more specifically an exit from ikon. Got the former and a partial of the latter. It was the only solution to the crowds.

The outlay for the passes is one thing, the periphery amenity pricing is just a capitalistic money grab.

There was a 10+ year waiting list for A lot passes. Kircher could have charged whatever he wanted for them, but he didn’t, price stayed relatively consistent and I stayed on the wait list.

The only thing these moves beyond the pass prices are doing is pricing out the long term pass holders that grew up in the RV lot and are trying to give their kids the same thing.

Signed, long time pass holder. (My mom sewed my ski clothes)

[altasnob]

There's 4 million people in the Seattle metro, which is predicted to climb to 5.8 million by 2050. Everyone wants a slice of that Crystal pie. Rather than try to reserve that pie for the rich, or people who have been there the longest, Crystal should try to cram as many people as they can. No reservations, no paying for parking. If you can't find a parking spot, you can circle the lots all day until you do. Don't want to deal with this, get up early. Or come up in the afternoon. Or ski when it sucks. Or ride the bus. Or go to White Pass or Hurricane Hill. Or move to Montana. Adapt. I don't see any other equitable way to deal with it. The only thing complaining about crowds got us was californiagrown's KSL investment to surge. I learned to ski at Crystal in the 80s but I am not going to pretend I should get a bigger slice of that pie than the guy who just got here. It's NATIONAL Forest and should be managed as equitably as possible for all users. Rich, poor, backcountry, snowshoers, immigrants who have never seen snow in their life who come up to sled only to see a bunch of signs everywhere saying no sledding.

[ptavv]

Do we know how many of these reserved spots they were selling? Curious how many went for it. I'll be interested to see how those people with reserved spots get treated (e.g. poop under the handles, etc.).

scuttlebutt in the b-lot facebook group (where I merely spectate) was that they sold 25 of the $7k season pass RV slots and that there's some fine print making them definitely not-sublet-able (whether crystal has the will to enforce that seems an open question)

one may also wonder if the reservation holder's camper were there but some other people were in said camper, how that would play with the fine print but I don't even own a sprinter van so my speculation is the purest kind of idle

[ptavv]

You keep saying this. It’s a nice stereotype in your mind, and surely applies to some.

I appreciate your historical sentiment North.

I have a similar (well, slightly later) vintage pass to Schweitzer which I think is what has driven my ski-area cynicism a notch higher a whit sooner. Schweitzer never had to contend with the public land issues that have hemmed Crystal (and much of Pugetopalis ski areas) in. I watched a family owned resort land in bankruptcy because they tried to run a ski resort instead of play the real estate hustle, then eventually sell out to a family (backed by real estate developers) who had figured out that the land was the asset, not the "ski experience". Even as they continue to parcel out the land, the experience just gets more expensive because the gentry have a huge sunk cost and the ski area needs to extract maximal rents lest they lose face among the shareholders.

Crystal is (now) managed with the same money-hustle ethos that now governs basically every ski area (aside from the weird treasures that still survive through strange tax code loopholes like Loup Loup and Badger Mountain). I hesitate to fault the ski areas because, hell, this is America and this is the ethos that drives… everything these days. I don't even know what the reality looks like if you try and run a ski area in a region with so few acres/capita and don't use price as a barrier… I imagine the experience wouldn't be good for anyone.

[XavierD]

There's 4 million people in the Seattle metro, which is predicted to climb to 5.8 million by 2050. Everyone wants a slice of that Crystal pie. Rather than try to reserve that pie for the rich, or people who have been there the longest, Crystal should try to cram as many people as they can. No reservations, no paying for parking. If you can't find a parking spot, you can circle the lots all day until you do. Don't want to deal with this, get up early. Or come up in the afternoon. Or ski when it sucks. Or ride the bus. Or go to White Pass or Hurricane Hill. Or move to Montana. Adapt. I don't see any other equitable way to deal with it. The only thing complaining about crowds got us was californiagrown's KSL investment to surge. I learned to ski at Crystal in the 80s but I am not going to pretend I should get a bigger slice of that pie than the guy who just got here. It's NATIONAL Forest and should be managed as equitably as possible for all users. Rich, poor, backcountry, snowshoers, immigrants who have never seen snow in their life who come up to sled only to see a bunch of signs everywhere saying no sledding.

Yikes.

[Northway]

The tough thing about seeing what happened to Crystal is that even though the region has been growing steadily for decades, is that the change to the current situation happened overnight. The year following the sale to Alterra when the Ikon pass went for sale to the public as CM’s pass.

Before: parked out on a powder day by 10am.
After: parked out before the lifts spin.

Let’s strive for equitable access for ski areas on NF land. I’m for that:

Let’s change policy to cap profits.

Let’s mandate individual, local ownership. Or better yet community ownership a la bridger bowl.

Let’s get back to reasonable day tickets. Where it took about 20 days to break even for a season pass purchase. So someone who can’t afford a winter of skiing can come for a day.

What else?

For the love of all things good, let the mega corp/mega passes be a thing of the past.

And create some more ski areas in the cascades.

[XavierD]

Yup,
Sudden drop in cost of passes, increase in ‘paper value.’

Despite a bunch of people staying on, it seems like all the local knowledge in decision making either left or was usurped by Altera. At least frozen. The never ending last minute updates and relatively drastic changes to policy throughout the process leave a bad taste in the mouth and loss of trust.
It’s not just the increase in costs, it’s the constant changes and unforeseen policy. Fortunately it appears they didn’t sell out all the RV slots. But how families made financial sacrifices to buy the more expensive passes, only to worry today they wouldn’t be able to park their RV like they have for the last few years.

Paying a premium is fine. Until Altera came around Crystal was a premium priced product. People can make financial adjustments if they see the value there. All many of us ask is just don’t add restrictions or change the product after we purchase it.