Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

[kellen]

It looked like there was very little plowing this morning. Short staffed? I hit Mud Mt about 6:30. Always too many Camrys.

They may have started plowing right after you, I was at mud mountain around 7:30ish and both lanes looked like they had at least 1 pass of plowing done to them. As mentioned though, it seemed like plows were only touching the main driving lanes, shoulders and pullouts were still packed with snow.

[oftpiste]

Just got an email from the AG's office acknowledging my complaint and that they'd found it worthy of some (low level) involvement. Probably won't purse given reversal of lift reservation system, but good to know the complaint has some merit in their eyes.

[PNWbrit]

Just got an email from the AG's office acknowledging my complaint and that they'd found it worthy of some (low level) involvement. Probably won't purse given reversal of lift reservation system, but good to know the complaint has some merit in their eyes.

Same here.

If nothing else it might keep Frank on his toes in future. Or a pivot to the parking reservations.

[timeo]

Xtal just sent out this via email:

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Road to Crystal Mountain
THE PERFECT STORM THIS WEEKEND AT CRYSTAL MOUNTAIN

All of us in the Pacific Northwest ski and ride community have observed the four feet or more of snowfall this week with pleasure and anticipation. We also know that the road conditions over the mountain passes have been challenging this week and may be closed through Sunday, however, forecasts call for mild and potentially sunny weather this weekend.


It’s a recipe for a perfect storm at Crystal this weekend where there will be more skiers and riders wanting to come up than the mountain and resort can physically hold.


We have been thinking about this scenario in depth and want to share our thoughts on how best to approach this weekend for a positive experience:


Communication
Crystal will communicate to our guests frequently tomorrow morning on what parking and transportation is looking like, via SMS text alert, website alerts, app notifications, social media and importantly, the electronic sign in Enumclaw.


Arrive Early
Please plan on getting to Crystal early if you want to ensure you’ll be able to get on the mountain.


Carpool
More people in fewer cars helps the greater good and remember: carpools of four or more do not have to pay to park.


Take The Bus
Our plan to significantly increase bus shuttle service out of Enumclaw has been put in place. Shuttle service is available for guests who reserve it, or if space is available, for walk-on passengers. For information on available bus reservations go to crystalmountainexpress.com

No Day Tickets Available at the Window
We will not be selling any day tickets at the ticket window or online, only Friends and Family tickets. Please do not visit if you don’t already have a pass product and are not Friends and Family. You will not be able to buy a lift ticket until 1:00pm.


Night Skiing
Arrive after 1:00pm for night skiing which is open until 8:00pm tomorrow. Parking will be free, lift tickets available, and the snow is fantastic.


If we’re being candid, please be smart about your plan to visit Crystal this weekend. We are doing our best to accommodate as many skiers and riders as we can including an unprecedented number of free buses.

If you can enjoy the sunny weather while enjoying other activities, this might be the weekend to consider it. But this weekend in particular, because of this convergence of snow, weather, and pass closures, please think about your plan. We genuinely may not be able to accommodate all visitors this weekend.

[powder_to_the_people]

Ok, so I’m not actually advocating for one over the other, but I’m having a hard time understanding why everyone here thinks that parking at Crystal should be allocated on a first-come, first-serve basis, rather through a reservation system. I'm undecided as to which of these two "solutions" I dislike the least. Don’t get me wrong, I’m furious that Ikon created the parking problem in the first place by overselling passes (and as so many have said, they should be held accountable, I’d like to see them cap sales for next year, etc).

Perhaps naive of me, but now that we’re in this fucked situation, why is first-come, first-serve basis better? Isn’t a reservation system also a first-come, first-serve basis? If the argument is that first-come, first-serve allocates parking to those who “want it more”, then isn’t a reservation system doing a similar thing (i.e. you have to spend a bunch of time at your computer/check back multiple times a day), except that you don’t have to get up at 6am and drive for a couple of hours to figure out if you’ll get to ski on that day?

But then maybe people here are more freaked out about the reservation system because they doubt Ikon’s ability to implement the proper IT infrastructure to ensure that the reservations system won’t be a shit show. And maybe worried too that people won’t play by the rules and cancel their reservations on time so that someone else can enjoy them.

[counterfeitfake]

I'm concerned that with the 2 reservation limit, I'll make my 2 and then they'll all be booked until April. That's worse.

[Buster Highmen]

Ok, so I’m not actually advocating for one over the other, but I’m having a hard time understanding why everyone here thinks that parking at Crystal should be allocated on a first-come, first-serve basis, rather through a reservation system. I'm undecided as to which of these two "solutions" I dislike the least. Don’t get me wrong, I’m furious that Ikon created the parking problem in the first place by overselling passes (and as so many have said, they should be held accountable, I’d like to see them cap sales for next year, etc).

Perhaps naive of me, but now that we’re in this fucked situation, why is first-come, first-serve basis better? Isn’t a reservation system also a first-come, first-serve basis? If the argument is that first-come, first-serve allocates parking to those who “want it more”, then isn’t a reservation system doing a similar thing (i.e. you have to spend a bunch of time at your computer/check back multiple times a day), except that you don’t have to get up at 6am and drive for a couple of hours to figure out if you’ll get to ski on that day?

But then maybe people here are more freaked out about the reservation system because they doubt Ikon’s ability to implement the proper IT infrastructure to ensure that the reservations system won’t be a shit show. And maybe worried too that people won’t play by the rules and cancel their reservations on time so that someone else can enjoy them.

The resey system has been and will likely continue to be gamed by bots for one thing.
But the original objection had to do with ski reseys, not parking reseys.

Fundamentally though, the problem is that Alterra is knowingly selling more passes than the area can accommodate.

[altasnob]

I don't think Crystal, or anyone else, can run a reservation parking system at a ski area without it turning into a shit show. Crystal will limit the reserveable spots for X, but in reality, you can always fit in one more car. People will figure this out and go up even without a reservation. I don't think Crystal has the active manpower to go around and check every car in all of their lots. So I still expect slow drives for people who don't get up early. Also, what about no shows? When they had skiing reservations, it was easy to catch, and punish, the now shows because their pass wasn't scanned. Not sure how Crystal will figure out you no showed. Are they really going to scan every plate? The situation with backcountry access is totally fucked because of this reservation rule and ripe for a law suit. Do they need a reservation? They have to pay $30 on the weekend (which is lame), but can they park for free if they carpool in a group of 4? If so, where do they park (it says this on Crystal's website but is very ambiguous). I don't think the status quo is broken. I ski the busiest of weekend days and have never been turned away. Yes, I am leaving Tacoma around 6 am these days but that is not that big of a deal.

[oftpiste]

Because if I'm wiling to get up early enough I can ski whenever I want. If I can only make a certain number of any kind of reservation at once I am limited to those days I reserved.

Ok, so I’m not actually advocating for one over the other, but I’m having a hard time understanding why everyone here thinks that parking at Crystal should be allocated on a first-come, first-serve basis, rather through a reservation system. I'm undecided as to which of these two "solutions" I dislike the least. Don’t get me wrong, I’m furious that Ikon created the parking problem in the first place by overselling passes (and as so many have said, they should be held accountable, I’d like to see them cap sales for next year, etc).

Perhaps naive of me, but now that we’re in this fucked situation, why is first-come, first-serve basis better? Isn’t a reservation system also a first-come, first-serve basis? If the argument is that first-come, first-serve allocates parking to those who “want it more”, then isn’t a reservation system doing a similar thing (i.e. you have to spend a bunch of time at your computer/check back multiple times a day), except that you don’t have to get up at 6am and drive for a couple of hours to figure out if you’ll get to ski on that day?

But then maybe people here are more freaked out about the reservation system because they doubt Ikon’s ability to implement the proper IT infrastructure to ensure that the reservations system won’t be a shit show. And maybe worried too that people won’t play by the rules and cancel their reservations on time so that someone else can enjoy them.

[AK47bp]

Because if I'm wiling to get up early enough I can ski whenever I want. If I can only make a certain number of any kind of reservation at once I am limited to those days I reserved.

It’s like the whole “early bird gets the worm” motto is shit now.


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[oftpiste]

I mean, that's been it my entire ski life. You wanna beat the crowds, traffic, shitshow, you fucking pack up the car the night before and get the fuck out the door in the morning. I don't really get why that's suddenly not a thing.

[Buster Highmen]

I mean, that's been it my entire ski life. You wanna beat the crowds, traffic, shitshow, you fucking pack up the car the night before and get the fuck out the door in the morning. I don't really get why that's suddenly not a thing.

^this.
Problem is, it increasingly is a thing.

[XavierD]

As buster said everyone else seems happy to wake up earlier too. Plenty of times I was on the blvd by 7 and still was an hour to the parking lot.

[altasnob]

So how are they going to enforce this new parking reservation system? Are they going to walk around the parking lots with license plate scanners like they implied they would do to enforce their parking registration idea. Or are they going to go like Bachelor, stand in the middle of the boulevard, and scan every single vehicle that passes through? That would make it easier to ensure all have and are using their parking reservation but create a choke spot.

[Ørion]

So how are they going to enforce this new parking reservation system? Are they going to walk around the parking lots with license plate scanners like they implied they would do to enforce their parking registration idea. Or are they going to go like Bachelor, stand in the middle of the boulevard, and scan every single vehicle that passes through? That would make it easier to ensure all have and are using their parking reservation but create a choke spot.

I've actually seen the employees scanning while tailgating for lunch so presumably they'll continue the same.

I am curious how they'll enforce no-shows though. Theoretically they could claim they never scanned your plates but it would be pretty easy to counterclaim that they just missed your vehicle in the chaos that is those lots.

[altasnob]

What if you come up for an hour or two (so were actually there) but Crystal never scans your plate? Do you get punished as a no show?

Crystal doesn't have the manpower to even enforce the current parking rules. Below is a photo I took last year of someone scoring a choice parking spot! They simply can't pull this off.

[Jax]

Wow. Do people not even try anymore? The spot is legit, but dude didn't even tuck it in. What a pussified tool.

[grinch]

Haaa that sums it up quite well

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[oftpiste]

I know and agree (and know you do the same thing), but it doesn't seem to have changed at all that if you hit 410 by 6:30 or earlier you're good to go. At least that's been my experience even on busy days in the last two seasons. And judging from the timing of the "full lots" messages I've been seeing this weekend, that still rings true.

I mean, it's just survival of the fittest. If you want to go skiing get out of bed. It's always been that way and should remain so.

Lift lines and crowds are of course another story. Pics from the last two days are just unbelievable in that regard.

I do think Xtal has been trying the last week with their increased communications but that doesn't resolve or forgive the massive overselling of passes and unserviceable numbers. It also doesn't forgive the complete denial of any accountability which is simply stunning. Or not.

^this.
Problem is, it increasingly is a thing.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

exactly, demand has eclipsed supply, it did 2 decades ago. Forest Service needs to do prospectus and offer up multiple other locations for low impact ski hills to take the strain off the pitifully few that are in our state. They won't because they are colluding with Vail, Alterra, KSL, etc. to create monopolies. Forest Service is also scared, lazy, clueless, bureaucratic and sold out. This is their fucking job, and they are not doing it, this is our land and forest service is locking it away.

What percentage of skiable terrain is the FS “locking away” in the WA Cascades?


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

SLC (greater population Wasatch Front: 2,606,548) has Snow Basin, PowMou, Park City, Deer Valley, Canyons, Solitude, Brighton, Alta and Snowbird, Sundance within an hours drive.
Seattle (greater population Puget Sound: 4,264,200) has Crystal, Alpental and Stevens, at more like within 2 hours drive.

Supply/demand.
The Puget Sound needs more ski areas.

Wants more ski areas, it’s an important distinction


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

We all know there's lots of options outside of wilderness, in logged areas in the WA Cascades. Again, for the zillionth time, see TAFKALWS list.

Most recently logged areas are on private land, the exception is some salvage logging in fire areas on the east slopes. Refresh us on the areas that lws has listed.


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[XavierD]

I know and agree (and know you do the same thing), but it doesn't seem to have changed at all that if you hit 410 by 6:30 or earlier you're good to go. At least that's been my experience even on busy days in the last two seasons. And judging from the timing of the "full lots" messages I've been seeing this weekend, that still rings true.

I don't know, the standard of getting to the mountain 2.5 hours before it opens seems like a waste of everyone's time. leaving Seattle by 5 is pretty unreasonable expectation for anyone with kids. Maybe instead of passes costing $1500-$2000 the barrier to entry will be affording a second home on 410.

I'm actually ok with reservations. -if they plan 8 months in advance and be transparent.

[PNWbrit]

It takes you 90 minutes to get to Enumclaw from Seattle?

[XavierD]

It takes you 90 minutes to get to Enumclaw from Seattle?

an hour from 90 north of the bridge add a potential stop for coffee/gas, and 10 minutes to get on I-5.