Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

[ptavv]

I’m pretty much exclusively a weekend/holiday skier, but I’m there with my family every single weekend day, and managed to do so despite reservations and traffic of the Alterra era, but I can recognize the continued downhill slide of the current situation. Nice pun.

I too blame Alterra for the currently sketchy backcountry conditions

[Northway]

I too blame Alterra for the currently sketchy backcountry conditions

You got that right! Ha.

[Buster Highmen]

Time to put a damn tram on Rainier!

I assume you're an "environmentalist" that understands the impact of automobiles, especially RVs and offroad vehicles on the environment and our National Parks.

In that view, a tram up Sunrise would have far less environmental impact than all the RVs spewing loads and oozing caustic juices driving up.

Or for that matter, a tram and funicular up the backside of Crystal from 410.

[Bobcat Sig]

The demand is obviously there, and the Forest Service controls the supply.

Sort of. The USFS grants permits and the like to operate on federal land. But make no mistake, the minute the wheels start turning for a new ski area; the USFS will be litigated into oblivion by local environmentalists. Unpopular take is that isn’t really the Forest Service that’s the issue; it’s the environmental groups that would stonewall any new ski areas.

I assume you're an "environmentalist" that understands the impact of automobiles, especially RVs and offroad vehicles on the environment and our National Parks.

In that view, a tram up Sunrise would have far less environmental impact than all the RVs spewing loads and oozing caustic juices driving up.

Or for that matter, a tram and funicular up the backside of Crystal from 410.

Now you’re talking!

[Toadman]

I assume you're an "environmentalist" that understands the impact of automobiles, especially RVs and offroad vehicles on the environment and our National Parks.

In that view, a tram up Sunrise would have far less environmental impact than all the RVs spewing loads and oozing caustic juices driving up.

Or for that matter, a tram and funicular up the backside of Crystal from 410.

Yes, yes I am an environmentalist who is thinking of the mountain culture and how best to preserve and enjoy it, with copious amounts of lift served terrain for the greater Cascadia Interconnect. With over 500kms of ski trails for the masses of Pugetopolis to enjoy.

I like the idea of a lift up the backside of Xtal from 410. Something that is of course environmentally friendly. You know, like one that is powered by wind and solar....

[Bobcat Sig]

The demand is obviously there, and the Forest Service controls the supply.

Sort of. The USFS grants permits and the like to operate on federal land. But make no mistake, the minute the wheels start turning for a new ski area; the USFS will be litigated into oblivion by local environmentalists. Unpopular take is that isn’t really the Forest Service that’s the issue; it’s the environmental groups that would stonewall any new ski areas.

I assume you're an "environmentalist" that understands the impact of automobiles, especially RVs and offroad vehicles on the environment and our National Parks.

In that view, a tram up Sunrise would have far less environmental impact than all the RVs spewing loads and oozing caustic juices driving up.

Or for that matter, a tram and funicular up the backside of Crystal from 410.

Now you’re talking!

[dunderhead]

Sort of. The USFS grants permits and the like to operate on federal land. But make no mistake, the minute the wheels start turning for a new ski area; the USFS will be litigated into oblivion by local environmentalists. Unpopular take is that isn’t really the Forest Service that’s the issue; it’s the environmental groups that would stonewall any new ski areas.



Now you’re talking!

yeah, I know. The Environmentalists will cry foul and begin litigation Irregardless. The forest service should do prospectus for a one lift ski hill in a spot that has no environmental impact and bait them in. Welcome the litigation then crush them, set the precedent that they will protect reasonable access to our land and secure the future of skiing. Countersue them for malicious prosecution and make them pay for it all. Then proceed with a program of minimal impact, locally owned ski hills everywhere, crush the monopolies thru market forces, promote healthy outdoor recreation, and improve the economics of rural communities. This is their mission statement and that is our land.

Forest Service would never do such a thing because their skiing program is a wholly owned subsidiary of the monopolies. They do not care about providing reasonable access and the economic benefits it results in. They only want to line their pockets with the above the table and the below the table payouts by the likes of VAIL. As well, they are desk jockeys who don't want to do the work, they are risk adverse, they are scared of being sued, and they lack the most basic knowledge of skiing.

[Buster Highmen]

Yes, yes I am an environmentalist who is thinking of the mountain culture and how best to preserve and enjoy it, with copious amounts of lift served terrain for the greater Cascadia Interconnect. With over 500kms of ski trails for the masses of Pugetopolis to enjoy.

Sounds about right. Thanks!

I like the idea of a lift up the backside of Xtal from 410. Something that is of course environmentally friendly. You know, like one that is powered by wind and solar....

I think we have a quorum of hot air we could contribute.

[dunfree]

everyone on this board would rather blame environmentalists than the shitty economics of ski areas. Slap a new ski area in the middle of north cascades wilderness. Who’s gonna pay to build a road? Who’s gonna pay to keep that road open? Think of the “prime” cascade ski terrain inaccessible because of current seasonally closed roads.


this isn’t new. Kirkwood ca opened because the state of California poneyed up $$$ to turn highway 88 to year round. That’s your tax dollars kids

[Buster Highmen]

Think of the “prime” cascade ski terrain inaccessible because of current seasonally closed roads.

There's a lot of reasonably accessible terrain. TAFKALWS has specified it a bunch of times.

Having been involved in the MDP for Crustal, I assure you that the small and loud environmentalists have a negative impact on lift served skiing.

[dunfree]

There's a lot of reasonably accessible terrain. TAFKALWS has specified it a bunch of times.

Having been involved in the MDP for Crustal, I assure you that the small and loud environmentalists have a negative impact on lift served skiing.

I’ve read you talking about that for now 18? Years? Not denying it’s a cost, just the focus that it’s the only cost.

the point was there aren’t “xyz pass open” threads because the terrain was accessible.

[Buster Highmen]

I’ve read you talking about that for now 18? Years? Not denying it’s a cost, just the focus that it’s the only cost.

Of course it's not the only cost, jeez.

Look at the numbers, it's a viable business in the absence of misguided environmental objections, especially in light of all the logging and mining.

[dunfree]

Of course it's not the only cost, jeez.

I was assured upthread that environmentalists were more evil than climate & topography. I mean there was a pretty clear path for that crazy Mt Adams ski area idea aside from the whole horrible weather thing. 100mph wind isn’t a problem, right?

[Buster Highmen]

I was assured upthread that environmentalists were more evil than climate & topography. I mean there was a pretty clear path for that crazy Mt Adams ski area idea aside from the whole horrible weather thing. 100mph wind isn’t a problem, right?

You're paying attention to that guy? C, I'd thought better of you.

[Buster Highmen]

I'd love to see some proof of USFS taking payments from Vail, Alterra or any ski associated business. Until I do, it's bullshit.

[dunfree]

You're paying attention to that guy? C, I'd thought better of you.

meh, anyone who’d been to the Holden superfund site (I guess after half a century it got fixed?) should give pause and think “what are the ramifications of polluting and fucking up a wilderness, then dumping and running”, but the ethos now is “fuck you, line go up”.

[Buster Highmen]

Straw men all over the place.

[dunderhead]

I'd love to see some proof of USFS taking payments from Vail, Alterra or any ski associated business. Until I do, it's bullshit.

You are probably right. There is never and has never been collusion, payouts, corruption, bribery, foul play, and a revolving door between government agencies and private industry. How fkn naive are you?

The above the board payouts are enough to set policy.

[dunfree]

Straw men all over the place.

Only a straw man because The argument is to eliminate resistance to build more high risk, low return things in the wilderness. Not a copper mine that lasted for decades..

[Buster Highmen]

You are probably right. There is never and has never been collusion, payouts, bribery, foul play, and a revolving door between government agencies and private industry. How fkn naive are you? I mean the above the board payout are enough to set policy.

If you're going to make those accusations, you should provide evidence of widespread, systemic under the table payouts.

Also, fuck you, you're exactly the kind of nitwit I with whom I'd rather not share anything, especially ideologies.

Asshole.

[Buster Highmen]

Only a straw man because The argument is to eliminate resistance to build more high risk, low return things in the wilderness. Not a copper mine that lasted for decades..

We all know there's lots of options outside of wilderness, in logged areas in the WA Cascades. Again, for the zillionth time, see TAFKALWS list.

[oftpiste]

I'd love to see some proof of USFS taking payments from Vail, Alterra or any ski associated business. Until I do, it's bullshit.

Saw two guys in the REX line this morning wearing USFS jackets. Prolly got free tix.

[dunderhead]

If you're going to make those accusations, you should provide evidence of widespread, systemic under the table payouts.

Also, fuck you, you're exactly the kind of nitwit I with whom I'd rather not share anything, especially ideologies.

Asshole.

Make a new handle, yours is rapey as fuk

[Buster Highmen]

Make a new handle, yours is rapey as fuk

My, aren't you creative.

[dunderhead]

My, aren't you creative.

I mean I get it, if you made that handle 20 years ago when you were in 7th grade and are afraid of losing your internet friends if you change it. But do it, you'll feel better about yourself afterwards.