Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

[counterfeitfake]

I haven't logged into FB in months, but I went to check, and HOLEEEEEEEEEEE SHIT is that comment section a pile of garbage. Lots of complaining and lots of really really dumb ideas. Par for the course on FB.

Didn't see many commenters praising this decision, what did you see?

[goCougs]

I haven't logged into FB in months, but I went to check, and HOLEEEEEEEEEEE SHIT is that comment section a pile of garbage. Lots of complaining and lots of really really dumb ideas. Par for the course on FB.

Didn't see many commenters praising this decision, what did you see?

It was mostly on the original ski-reservations post. Pretty much only hate on the most recent parking-res post.

[Bobcat Sig]

What they need to do is take the approach that a place like Alta does. If you want unlimited at Alta you have to pay a lot of money. You can get 7 days by just getting the Ikon. And you can also get an Ikon add-on to the unlimited pass.

Basically there should be a Crystal Unlimited that costs like $2000, then add $250 for an Ikon. Or buy a full Ikon for $1k and get 7-10 days, or buy a base Ikon for $600 and get 5 days.

Whatever it is, the fact remains that it's been a bait-and-switch this year. Seven, ten, or unlimited days - just be consistent. And no fucking reservations.

Great idea! Frank is reading this and hears you loud and clear. Starting next year, Crystal unlimited will be $2,000. No, fuck it, make if $4,000. That's really what the complainers want; their own private ski area on the public's land.

Alterra is a private equity firm. Is there a benevolent private equity firm that exists on Earth? At least Vail, being publicly traded, has disclosure requirements.

I'm mostly a weekend warrior and really don't think Crystal is that bad. Learn the drill. You will never make everyone happy with whatever they do.

This is true, especially about making everyone happy. To put it another; get up early to ensure a spot in the lot. No reservation is required. It's not hard. Just because the Chads and Karens can't get their broods up and out is their problem and it shouldn't then become a reservation system that then becomes our problem.

....

And I agree, this whole BS catch phrase being thrown out be the execs of "mountain culture" is insulting.

You just triggered the ghost of Hugh Conway.

There is a surprising amount of facebook commenters that are praising Frank for the reservation system. Spineless corporate shills

I think you mean lazy spineless corporate shills.

[doubleeject]

They need to reconsider this. They ARE putting limitations on access to Crystal, they're just doing it this year via a dumb hack, after they got our money. It seems like they ought to be hurt by this in sales next year, I can't be sure that will happen.

This is it, I highly doubt Alterra cares about the complaints they receive as long as the money keeps pouring in. Absent the forest service intervening or pass sales taking a shit, you can likely count on more of the same next year. At this stage it becomes a "fool me once, shame on you..." type situation. It sucks.

[altacoup]

What they need to do is take the approach that a place like Alta does. If you want unlimited at Alta you have to pay a lot of money. You can get 7 days by just getting the Ikon. And you can also get an Ikon add-on to the unlimited pass.

Basically there should be a Crystal Unlimited that costs like $2000, then add $250 for an Ikon. Or buy a full Ikon for $1k and get 7-10 days, or buy a base Ikon for $600 and get 5 days.

Alta unlimited pass is only $1k if bought early. Pretty good deal when the place is so close. That pass gives you zero Ikon benefits. I grew up skiing at Hood and the lines at Alta on the busiest of pow days aren’t as bad as your typical weekend at Meadows. One thing I’ve noticed is that in Utah there’s a bunch of hardcores who ski everyday. In the PNW there’s way more people who ski 10 times a year but aren’t super hardcore. Now with multi resort passes, those people are buying a seasons pass versus day tickets. That probably encourages them to ski more than they typically did. The multi resort passes are ruining the skiing experience.

[Buster Highmen]

SLC (greater population Wasatch Front: 2,606,548) has Snow Basin, PowMou, Park City, Deer Valley, Canyons, Solitude, Brighton, Alta and Snowbird, Sundance within an hours drive.
Seattle (greater population Puget Sound: 4,264,200) has Crystal, Alpental and Stevens, at more like within 2 hours drive.

Supply/demand.
The Puget Sound needs more ski areas.

[dunderhead]

SLC (greater population Wasatch Front: 2,606,548) has Snow Basin, PowMou, Park City, Deer Valley, Canyons, Solitude, Brighton, Alta and Snowbird, Sundance within an hours drive.
Seattle (greater population Puget Sound: 4,264,200) has Crystal, Alpental and Stevens, at more like within 2 hours drive.

Supply/demand.
The Puget Sound needs more ski areas.

exactly. PowMou alone has damn near more acreage than every ski hill in Washington combined. It is a complete joke. The demand is obviously there, and the Forest Service controls the supply.

[Toadman]

SLC (greater population Wasatch Front: 2,606,548) has Snow Basin, PowMou, Park City, Deer Valley, Canyons, Solitude, Brighton, Alta and Snowbird, Sundance within an hours drive.
Seattle (greater population Puget Sound: 4,264,200) has Crystal, Alpental and Stevens, at more like within 2 hours drive.

Supply/demand.
The Puget Sound needs more ski areas.

Time to put a damn tram on Rainier! And a funicular. And a cog rail. And a super 8 pack. And a gondy. And a t-bar. And finally, for good measure, a magic carpet. I always marveled at the Swiss ski resorts and all the modes of transport employed to get up the hill! I'm pretty sure I took about every mode of lift served method while skiing at Wengen and Zermatt back in the day.

[Northway]

To put it another; get up early to ensure a spot in the lot. No reservation is required. It's not hard. Just because the Chads and Karens can't get their broods up and out is their problem and it shouldn't then become a reservation system that then becomes our problem.

I mean, getting up early is fine and all, but do we really want to just accept the ever earlier race to the lot?

Two years ago, pre covid reservations in their first January/February crush, we had to leave greenwater (20 minutes away) before 6:30 to ensure we made it up the boulevard ahead of the shit show. There were 6am gridlocks in Enumclaw. If you hit the boulevard after 7am, good luck getting there in any timely fashion. This never happened pre alterra (PA). On big days PA, lots filled by 10 am. Now by 8-8:30.

I’m fully on board with CM only unlimited pass, with no parking res. Ikon has to reserve parking. Doubtful that approach would be taken by Alterra.

I’d be even more on board with Alterra selling off CM to local ownership. Get out of the multi resort pass shit show altogether. Even less likely.

I’m pretty much exclusively a weekend/holiday skier, but I’m there with my family every single weekend day, and managed to do so despite reservations and traffic of the Alterra era, but I can recognize the continued downhill slide of the current situation. Nice pun.

[ptavv]

I’m pretty much exclusively a weekend/holiday skier, but I’m there with my family every single weekend day, and managed to do so despite reservations and traffic of the Alterra era, but I can recognize the continued downhill slide of the current situation. Nice pun.

I too blame Alterra for the currently sketchy backcountry conditions

[Northway]

I too blame Alterra for the currently sketchy backcountry conditions

You got that right! Ha.

[Buster Highmen]

Time to put a damn tram on Rainier!

I assume you're an "environmentalist" that understands the impact of automobiles, especially RVs and offroad vehicles on the environment and our National Parks.

In that view, a tram up Sunrise would have far less environmental impact than all the RVs spewing loads and oozing caustic juices driving up.

Or for that matter, a tram and funicular up the backside of Crystal from 410.

[Bobcat Sig]

The demand is obviously there, and the Forest Service controls the supply.

Sort of. The USFS grants permits and the like to operate on federal land. But make no mistake, the minute the wheels start turning for a new ski area; the USFS will be litigated into oblivion by local environmentalists. Unpopular take is that isn’t really the Forest Service that’s the issue; it’s the environmental groups that would stonewall any new ski areas.

I assume you're an "environmentalist" that understands the impact of automobiles, especially RVs and offroad vehicles on the environment and our National Parks.

In that view, a tram up Sunrise would have far less environmental impact than all the RVs spewing loads and oozing caustic juices driving up.

Or for that matter, a tram and funicular up the backside of Crystal from 410.

Now you’re talking!

[Toadman]

I assume you're an "environmentalist" that understands the impact of automobiles, especially RVs and offroad vehicles on the environment and our National Parks.

In that view, a tram up Sunrise would have far less environmental impact than all the RVs spewing loads and oozing caustic juices driving up.

Or for that matter, a tram and funicular up the backside of Crystal from 410.

Yes, yes I am an environmentalist who is thinking of the mountain culture and how best to preserve and enjoy it, with copious amounts of lift served terrain for the greater Cascadia Interconnect. With over 500kms of ski trails for the masses of Pugetopolis to enjoy.

I like the idea of a lift up the backside of Xtal from 410. Something that is of course environmentally friendly. You know, like one that is powered by wind and solar....

[Bobcat Sig]

The demand is obviously there, and the Forest Service controls the supply.

Sort of. The USFS grants permits and the like to operate on federal land. But make no mistake, the minute the wheels start turning for a new ski area; the USFS will be litigated into oblivion by local environmentalists. Unpopular take is that isn’t really the Forest Service that’s the issue; it’s the environmental groups that would stonewall any new ski areas.

I assume you're an "environmentalist" that understands the impact of automobiles, especially RVs and offroad vehicles on the environment and our National Parks.

In that view, a tram up Sunrise would have far less environmental impact than all the RVs spewing loads and oozing caustic juices driving up.

Or for that matter, a tram and funicular up the backside of Crystal from 410.

Now you’re talking!

[dunderhead]

Sort of. The USFS grants permits and the like to operate on federal land. But make no mistake, the minute the wheels start turning for a new ski area; the USFS will be litigated into oblivion by local environmentalists. Unpopular take is that isn’t really the Forest Service that’s the issue; it’s the environmental groups that would stonewall any new ski areas.



Now you’re talking!

yeah, I know. The Environmentalists will cry foul and begin litigation Irregardless. The forest service should do prospectus for a one lift ski hill in a spot that has no environmental impact and bait them in. Welcome the litigation then crush them, set the precedent that they will protect reasonable access to our land and secure the future of skiing. Countersue them for malicious prosecution and make them pay for it all. Then proceed with a program of minimal impact, locally owned ski hills everywhere, crush the monopolies thru market forces, promote healthy outdoor recreation, and improve the economics of rural communities. This is their mission statement and that is our land.

Forest Service would never do such a thing because their skiing program is a wholly owned subsidiary of the monopolies. They do not care about providing reasonable access and the economic benefits it results in. They only want to line their pockets with the above the table and the below the table payouts by the likes of VAIL. As well, they are desk jockeys who don't want to do the work, they are risk adverse, they are scared of being sued, and they lack the most basic knowledge of skiing.

[Buster Highmen]

Yes, yes I am an environmentalist who is thinking of the mountain culture and how best to preserve and enjoy it, with copious amounts of lift served terrain for the greater Cascadia Interconnect. With over 500kms of ski trails for the masses of Pugetopolis to enjoy.

Sounds about right. Thanks!

I like the idea of a lift up the backside of Xtal from 410. Something that is of course environmentally friendly. You know, like one that is powered by wind and solar....

I think we have a quorum of hot air we could contribute.

[dunfree]

everyone on this board would rather blame environmentalists than the shitty economics of ski areas. Slap a new ski area in the middle of north cascades wilderness. Who’s gonna pay to build a road? Who’s gonna pay to keep that road open? Think of the “prime” cascade ski terrain inaccessible because of current seasonally closed roads.


this isn’t new. Kirkwood ca opened because the state of California poneyed up $$$ to turn highway 88 to year round. That’s your tax dollars kids

[Buster Highmen]

Think of the “prime” cascade ski terrain inaccessible because of current seasonally closed roads.

There's a lot of reasonably accessible terrain. TAFKALWS has specified it a bunch of times.

Having been involved in the MDP for Crustal, I assure you that the small and loud environmentalists have a negative impact on lift served skiing.

[dunfree]

There's a lot of reasonably accessible terrain. TAFKALWS has specified it a bunch of times.

Having been involved in the MDP for Crustal, I assure you that the small and loud environmentalists have a negative impact on lift served skiing.

I’ve read you talking about that for now 18? Years? Not denying it’s a cost, just the focus that it’s the only cost.

the point was there aren’t “xyz pass open” threads because the terrain was accessible.

[Buster Highmen]

I’ve read you talking about that for now 18? Years? Not denying it’s a cost, just the focus that it’s the only cost.

Of course it's not the only cost, jeez.

Look at the numbers, it's a viable business in the absence of misguided environmental objections, especially in light of all the logging and mining.

[dunfree]

Of course it's not the only cost, jeez.

I was assured upthread that environmentalists were more evil than climate & topography. I mean there was a pretty clear path for that crazy Mt Adams ski area idea aside from the whole horrible weather thing. 100mph wind isn’t a problem, right?

[Buster Highmen]

I was assured upthread that environmentalists were more evil than climate & topography. I mean there was a pretty clear path for that crazy Mt Adams ski area idea aside from the whole horrible weather thing. 100mph wind isn’t a problem, right?

You're paying attention to that guy? C, I'd thought better of you.

[Buster Highmen]

I'd love to see some proof of USFS taking payments from Vail, Alterra or any ski associated business. Until I do, it's bullshit.

[dunfree]

You're paying attention to that guy? C, I'd thought better of you.

meh, anyone who’d been to the Holden superfund site (I guess after half a century it got fixed?) should give pause and think “what are the ramifications of polluting and fucking up a wilderness, then dumping and running”, but the ethos now is “fuck you, line go up”.