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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    tahoe de chingao
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    609
    Oh shit. Don't do me like that my wife was happy with the number of touring skis in the house

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Western MT
    Posts
    1,509
    Quote Originally Posted by sruffian View Post
    Oh shit. Don't do me like that my wife was happy with the number of touring skis in the house
    Like moths to a flame!

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,682
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    I just don’t dig the tiny sweet spot on a continuous rocker ski on the climb or descent.
    Made that mistake one weekend out of town, only brought a pair of fully-rockered prototypes and had a miserable time trying to not slide backward on the steep skin track, and then was exhausting trying to balance fore-aft on the way down on frozen reef. Me fighting with it totally slowed down everyone else on the tour, never again.
    Last edited by 1000-oaks; 03-31-2020 at 06:46 PM.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    732
    Has anyone tried the new raven? Is the new rocker profile way bigger than the earlier model?

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    401
    The new raven skis incredibly well in a wide variety of conditions and has been my go to ski in the BC, my 2 cents.

    Steep skin tracks suck anyway


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  6. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rossland BC
    Posts
    1,213
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Made that mistake one weekend out of town, only brought a pair of fully-rockered prototypes and had a miserable time trying to not slide backward on the steep skin track, and then was exhausting trying to balance fore-aft on the way down on frozen reef. Me fighting with it totally slowed down everyone else on the tour, never again.

    Always hear great things about the BMT 109, but full rocker for a touring ski spooks me after that experience. At least a tiny bit of camber underfoot please, even if it's a short flat area.
    Horses for courses. I love my fully rockered skis for trail breaking and deep powder skiing. Steep packed skin tracks donít sound like fun.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,343
    Going to be playing around with the Line Vision 98 this spring as an alternative.

    Raven 190 weighs 1800g
    Vision 186 weighs 1550g

    So 250g difference. Similar mount point (-6). Will report back.
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  8. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    69
    Picked up Ravens this year for a dedicated BC ski and Iíve had very mixed results. At the same time I also picked up a pair of Hojiís which instantly clicked for me from the start. The Raven hasnít gotten there yet, the rocker profile on mine are flat or minimally cambered underfoot with rockered tips / tails. The rocker profile is pretty conventional, i.e. not very deep.

    For comparison where the Hoji plays well no matter how you turn it (drive tips, underfoot), the Raven for me has a small sweet spot. Any tip pressure and they are pretty hooky after very liberal filing. Could be my technique but the magic isnít there...

    No issues on skin tracks that Iíve found, could be due to the profile though.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,343
    Arent the hoji and raven purdy similar
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  10. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    461
    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    Going to be playing around with the Line Vision 98 this spring as an alternative.

    Raven 190 weighs 1800g
    Vision 186 weighs 1550g

    So 250g difference. Similar mount point (-6). Will report back.
    Looking forward to your impressions. I'm considering either as my next season (huh) touring ski.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    T.ride
    Posts
    1,721
    I bought a pair of ravens new from 4frnt for last winter(18/19 not sure if the raven was changed for this winter), was super stoked on finally having a new bc setup and was very disappointed and eventually sold them. I had the longest length, 190ish, and found them to ski crap snow well and were pretty chargy for how light they were, my issue was with the tips, massive tip rocker and super soft tips, in dense powder the tips would fold up on me. I would have preferred either much stiffer tips or less rocker. Much happier now with their replacement, head Kore 105s.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Sonoma
    Posts
    11,713
    I have Ravens for mixed condition tours and they're absolutely great for that, but wouldn't want them for those deeper powder days. Definitely more of a quiver ski IMO.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    839
    I have the Ravens as a dedicated tour ski. I live in St.Moritz and, as you may know, the conditions in the Alps tend to be tricky. So basically the Raven is good (to really good) if the snow is soft. They float really well.
    When the snow gets harder the skis are hard to turn and very little manageable, especially in crust and wind-affected snow. I'm thinking to buy something in the range 95-100mm for when the snow isn't as soft as you may desire.
    As a reference, I am a ski instructor and tend to ski hard and fast. 130-150 days/year.
    Always Fight Gravity

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stopper View Post
    Picked up Ravens this year for a dedicated BC ski and I’ve had very mixed results. At the same time I also picked up a pair of Hoji’s which instantly clicked for me from the start. ... For comparison where the Hoji plays well no matter how you turn it (drive tips, underfoot), the Raven for me has a small sweet spot. Any tip pressure and they are pretty hooky after very liberal filing. Could be my technique but the magic isn’t there...
    I found the same. Ravens and I got on to a great start, but where the relationship soured along the way and I lost confidence in the skis as the snow got shallower and harder. It could be that the 184 length is a bit stiff and long for me - I dunno.

    I bought the red/white Hojis since I (initially) loved the blue/white Ravens. Hojis are perhaps the most intuitive soft snow ski I've been on, and they are no slouch on firm snow either. They slarve with ease and do variable snow very well - especially given how soft their shovels are. They really impressed me. I have since sold them as there was too much overlap in that part in the quiver and the 187s are too long for me to tour with (i am 175cm).

    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    Arent the hoji and raven purdy similar
    No, at least not for the last pairs made before the production was moved - they could be more similar now though.

    The old versions' rocker lines and splay numbers are quite different, as are their flex profiles. The Ravens are more supportive - especially in the front part of the ski, have much shallower rocker lines and a long flat part underfoot. Hojis have very deep rocker lines up front and the showels are significantly softer.
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  15. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    69
    Agreed, Hoji and Ravens are very different skis in the rocker profile which is why I think the Ravens struggle in hard/weird snow. Where the Hoji in firm conditions easily pivots due to lack of contact, the Raven has a good amount of base contact and then effective edge. Couple this with a 30M radius and in weird snow especially in tighter areas they become very difficult, seems like they are either sideways or straight, very hard to arc. It's difficult for me to justify keeping a ski in this width category that only does well in good snow, I've got another setup that's only a few hundred grams heavier that I love there.

    I've also considered downsizing to a 187 Hoji (resort setup is 195) as the weight is similar to Ravens in 190 and that could be a good option.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    livin the dream
    Posts
    3,735
    I enjoy my 190 ravens as a do it all touring ski.

    I think they are about perfect for corn skiing - which is most of my touring. They have enough bite to be comfortable on hardpack. They have enough rocker to float my fat ass in powder, although they donít surf and slash like my inbounds pow skis. They have a long enough radius to be manageable on thick spring glop. They are light enough for a full day walking in the mountains.

    They were also $399 on sterbenzstash when I bought them...

    I would like a little more float and a little lighter. ie: A 108 raven that maintains the 29m TR in 1700grams would be perfect.

    Some would say go 186 BMT 109... But Iím 6í2 200 - going shorter than 189 doesnít really work for me.... plus the Volkls are $1000....


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  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,343
    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    I enjoy my 190 ravens as a do it all touring ski.

    I think they are about perfect for corn skiing - which is most of my touring. They have enough bite to be comfortable on hardpack. They have enough rocker to float my fat ass in powder, although they don’t surf and slash like my inbounds pow skis. They have a long enough radius to be manageable on thick spring glop. They are light enough for a full day walking in the mountains.

    They were also $399 on sterbenzstash when I bought them...

    I would like a little more float and a little lighter. ie: A 108 raven that maintains the 29m TR in 1700grams would be perfect.

    Some would say go 186 BMT 109... But I’m 6’2 200 - going shorter than 189 doesn’t really work for me.... plus the Volkls are $1000....


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    ...vision 108...?
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  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    263
    Might as well chime in since I started this thread with my sad little story. I eventually did purchase the Raven 190. They were delivered and after inspection I had second thoughts about my choice and reconsidered. At 220 lbs without a pack they just didn't seem like enough ski for me. Possibly they would have been fine but who knows. So I sent them back and got the hoji 195 instead. Mounted those up as a touring ski using some Look HM12 bindings and Vulcan boots. Skied them half dozen times in some really good and also shitty conditions. I can usually adapt pretty quickly to any ski, but I could see that these were not going to be my cup of tea. Ended up selling them. I now tour on a Head Kore 105 which seems to fit my style and I really like. That is the way it goes sometimes...YMMV.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    69
    For anyone reading interested in a pair with less than 5 days, let me know. Getting ready to post an ad for mine.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,343
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Pabst View Post
    Might as well chime in since I started this thread with my sad little story. I eventually did purchase the Raven 190. They were delivered and after inspection I had second thoughts about my choice and reconsidered. At 220 lbs without a pack they just didn't seem like enough ski for me. Possibly they would have been fine but who knows. So I sent them back and got the hoji 195 instead. Mounted those up as a touring ski using some Look HM12 bindings and Vulcan boots. Skied them half dozen times in some really good and also shitty conditions. I can usually adapt pretty quickly to any ski, but I could see that these were not going to be my cup of tea. Ended up selling them. I now tour on a Head Kore 105 which seems to fit my style and I really like. That is the way it goes sometimes...YMMV.
    Raven/Hoji pretty different style of skiing than Head Kore 105. What made you go for the former first?
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  21. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    T.ride
    Posts
    1,721
    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    Raven/Hoji pretty different style of skiing than Head Kore 105. What made you go for the former first?
    I can't speak for Fred but I made the same transition and I'm bored as hell so here ya go

    I got a few pounds on Fred, but I was in the middle of trying to get rid of my old dated charger skis and adapt to the 'new' style of skiing, center balanced, side to side inputs, etc. I had bought some 194 devastators, already had some 187 head a-stars which I loved(love) that were mounted -7 with super low pro tips and stiff so I was used to slashing around and not needing a giant tip out in front of me to ski pow..

    IMO 4frnts are built for a very specific skier, and for someone my size I would have needed a 205 devestator and a super stiff raven to make them work for me. I get what they are going for, it's very intuitive, the ravens once engaded just want to bound down the mtn in pow, but every time I would load them up hard I would front somersault instead of bounce back up out of the snow. Pretty frustrating and made it impossible to ski confidently. I did have the 190 ravens at ~-7 based the hoji formula.

    The head Kore isn't perfect, I wish the sidecut was designed for a more modern mount, I'm on the line because any more forward makes it hard to engage the sidecut without a poop smear turn.. I hate skiing like that. They are just about as light, and are serious chargers for how light they are, they really come alive at speed and are full of energy, I really like to work a ski, with 4frnts I feel like you just get balanced(or backseat ) , stay there, and mob down the mtn, fun but not my style.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    5
    Any know how do they compare to something like the Soul 7 or more center mounted Moment Wildcat 108 Tour / Deathwish Tour ?

  23. #48
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Sonoma
    Posts
    11,713
    Quote Originally Posted by KM14 View Post
    Any know how do they compare to something like the Soul 7 or more center mounted Moment Wildcat 108 Tour / Deathwish Tour ?
    I own both the Ravens and Moment WCT 108's and they are nothing like the Soul 7 at all, fortunately. These are stiff skis with generous turn radii.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    5
    How would you compare the Ravens and WCT 108s?

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    405
    I canít compare the Ravens to the WCT 108s directly (I donít have WCT 108s). But I own 184 Ravens and I own a shitload of other more tail rockered skis like the 108s.

    The 184 cm Ravens have a stiff tail. Like, really really stiff compared to the Vision 98s or BC 120s or Line Blends or Rossi BO 118. The tail on the Raven is barely bendable by hand flex for me.

    Thatís not necessarily good or bad. Itís probably a design feature that lets Hoji ski really fucking fast when need be.

    But Iím not Hoji. I make mistakes, and I find the other skis in my quiver are more forgiving of my shitty technique than the Ravens. Especially at slower speeds.

    That being said... if I wanted to tour up and ski down variable firm/soft snow as fast as possible on the descent, I still might pick the Ravens over my Vision 98s or my BC 120s. The Ravens have a less symmetrical flex (tip is much softer than the tails), but if Iím going for all out descent speed on a touring ski on variable snow? Well, I think the Ravens might still get the call.

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