OFFICIAL TAHOE 18/19 STOKE, CONDITIONS, WEATHER THREAD

[bodywhomper]

Seems like we re-hash this every year, so I'm genuinely curious... do you still not understand what would actually happen by banning STR's in Truckee / North Lake? A lot of local businesses would probably close... and a bunch of houses would just sit completely empty for an even larger percentage of the year. The only reason that's on the ballot in SLT is because of local casino / hotel interests. I could see it happening in a neighborhood like Glenshire, however.

But it passed for accessory dwelling units in nv county by BOS vote over a zoning change, right? (I stopped tracking this). I'm not certain what kinda effect that would have east of the crest.

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[powdork]

Seems like we re-hash this every year, so I'm genuinely curious... do you still not understand what would actually happen by banning STR's in Truckee / North Lake? A lot of local businesses would probably close... and a bunch of houses would just sit completely empty for an even larger percentage of the year. The only reason that's on the ballot in SLT is because of local casino / hotel interests.

It's on the ballot because people are sick of vacation rentals. Locals are sick of getting kicked out of their long term situation so the owner can open a business in a neighborhood. They got 1651 signatures to put it on the ballot (1036 are required). The realtors and VR businesses tried to get their own initiative on the ballot, but more than 900 of their signatures (more than half) were rejected.
The fact is these are businesses in areas not zoned for businesses. If they weren't, we wouldn't be talking about job losses would we?

[mcski]

Im sure it has some impact on the rental housing stock - how much is debatable - but don't be fooled. The money behind this issue is from the hotels and casinos. Same in SF. They just coop the renter problem to protect their turf

[powdork]

No, it is not. I live here every day. There is no very little behind it on the pro measure t side. All of the money is being spent by the realtors and vr businesses. The ballot initiative was started by Kenneth Weitzman (an elderly plastic surgeon) and Daniel Browne (pic below). They have very little funding and are way outgunned financially.

[TahoeJ]

Looks like it will just barely pass in SLT by about a 2% margin (hardly an overwhelming majority amongst local registered voters). Careful what you wish for. It'll be really interesting to see what happens in three years when this fully kicks in. It's delusional to think that families on a vacation that don't want to stay in a hotel will now do so instead of just going somewhere else. Which is fine for many, I'm sure, but there will need to be major budget cuts to make up for the loss in taxes collected.

People with homes in the STR allowed zone must be stoked, though - their property values will shoot up while the rest of town will see them decline.

[gone2alpine]

Alrighty then...let's bring this thread back to snow (or the lack of it) and skiing (or the lack of it). Clearly there is a jinx in place with this too early and untraditional Tahoe thread....not an ounce of precip in the next 16 days yet and Mammoth just announced a delayed opening. At least lets get back to some bike stoke...

[liv2ski]

^^^I am uncertain Mammoth has ever delayed an opening before in the 13 or so years I have been skiing there. I hope buying powder skis didn't jinx me.

[powdork]

Looks like it will just barely pass in SLT by about a 2% margin (hardly an overwhelming majority amongst local registered voters). Careful what you wish for. It'll be really interesting to see what happens in three years when this fully kicks in. It's delusional to think that families on a vacation that don't want to stay in a hotel will now do so instead of just going somewhere else. Which is fine for many, I'm sure, but there will need to be major budget cuts to make up for the loss in taxes collected.

People with homes in the STR allowed zone must be stoked, though - their property values will shoot up while the rest of town will see them decline.

There is also a substantial amount of property not within the city limits that this does not affect, although I suspect that will be addressed soon. There will be a readjustment of prices but they will level out in the long run. This is a win for people that buy houses for reasons other than owning a business because it will make our city sustainable. A major benefit I can see is that it could level out our seasons a little bit with less room to expand and crush our infrastructure during the high season and ramp up the shoulders a bit with more year round residents. There will be some financial impact. VHRs brought a little over 3 million in taxes for the fiscal year ending in 10/2017. Some of that will be recaptured within the tourist core and some by hotels and some will go elsewhere I suppose. The amounts remain to be seen.

[meter-man]

Looks like Measure AA will pass in Truckee - pretty stoked about that.

Seems like we re-hash this every year, so I'm genuinely curious... do you still not understand what would actually happen by banning STR's in Truckee / North Lake?.

Douche much?

A lot of local businesses would probably close... and a bunch of houses would just sit completely empty for an even larger percentage of the year. The only reason that's on the ballot in SLT is because of local casino / hotel interests. I could see it happening in a neighborhood like Glenshire, however

I'm no local, but man, GFY. The Tahoe area is being bled dry of housing stock, particularly rentals. Practically every candidate for Truckee Town Council named housing as the #1 issue. Why? Because it's a fucking disaster. You need more than tourists and vacation rentals to make a community. We've got plenty of businesses and plenty of housing stock, but nowhere to live.

ANYWAY...where's the fucking snow? Squaw's webcam shows a couple pitiful patches (if that) on Gold Coast.

[NorCalNomad]

Same in SF. They just coop the renter problem to protect their turf

I can't speak to how it's effected the Tahoe area but for sure it is much more of a renter problem in SF. Know multiple long time SF residents (not new techies), and SF natives that have been kicked out of their places for them to go up on Airbnb.

[TahoeJ]

I'm no local, but man, GFY. The Tahoe area is being bled dry of housing stock, particularly rentals. Practically every candidate for Truckee Town Council named housing as the #1 issue. Why? Because it's a fucking disaster. You need more than tourists and vacation rentals to make a community. We've got plenty of businesses and plenty of housing stock, but nowhere to live.

Cool story. We had the exact same problem in Sonoma and banned STR’s several years back, followed a few years later by a ban of any new ones nearby in a huge swath of the county. We still have the same exact problem. It didn’t do shit. Now those second homes just sit empty more often. But hotel rooms are expensive as shit now making it harder for the non wealthy to come visit for more than a day trip... so did we win? Businesses are still having trouble finding workers because no one can find a place to live.

If you think I’m a douche about it that’s cool, I’ve just seen a pretty similar situation in a tourist driven town already play out. But by all means believe in that magic solution.

Also, we had this exact conversation in this thread last year, hence my re-hash comment.

[tahoearmada]

the answer to the rental issue is rezoning, hopefully that will be an option next election
as for snow: it will come, ive lived in tahoe 18 years and was a mammoth local for ten years prior to that and delayed openings are nothing new
some of the biggest seasons ever didnt start until december
big storms in the fall are pretty rare here in the sierra
that beng said, Im going to mexico, Ill be back on the 20th

[TahoeJ]

the answer to the rental issue is rezoning, hopefully that will be an option next election.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

My take is that market forces and economics are extremely complicated and anything billed as some simple solution is incredibly naive and ignores history.

The only thing that will fix housing in North Lake - and places like my home town - is an unrealistic amount of construction or a recession. Don’t worry, it’s coming soon enough.

[NorCalNomad]

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

Maybe he's talking about more high density housing zoning?

[gimpy]

I’m with ya 100% court. Most of my contractor friends are fucking sheeple. This “save Tahoe jobs” campaign is utter bullshit. The realtors and big money contractor, like bob Mac who is among those building huge mega-Airbnb’s down by bijou golf course, will just make a few less million a year. Every person I know who was against measure t was a realtor or someone who’s opinion is totally vested in short term profit. I had a blast yelling “yes on t” with my kids on the way to school at the supporters (realtors) holding their save Tahoe jobs signs yesterday.



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[TahoeJ]

Well, I agree that it's bullshit that an STR ban would cost construction jobs. There's already way more demand in the area than supply when it comes to that. I was alluding to SLT seeing a pretty heavy tourism dip due to a lack of "ideal" lodging for tourists, who will not just fill up hotels now because people rarely want to take their family to a hotel / casino for a week. Less tourists = less money to go around = some of those bars/restaurants/shops will need to close and fire their employees. But maybe not, since they can just stay in Nevada now and drive over and back. And maybe that's fine and a hard reset of some sort is needed... it'll be interesting to see what happens... if the recession doesn't come in the next three years.

There are always unexpected side effects and none of it happens in a vacuum. The unexpected side effect in Sonoma was a massive increase in traffic congestion on the weekends, since less visitors were able to stay the night so it increased the amount of day trippers driving around during peak hours. There's now a line of cars coming into town on weekend mornings and an even longer line of cars trying to leave town in the late afternoon / early evenings.

Didn't mean to come off as a smug asshole, I've just seen this unfold and kind of laugh at the idea of STR bans being some big end-all solution.

P.S. - please snow.

[TahoeBC]

Well I have lots of friends that are at there wits end cause it’s revolving door of vacation renters next door often of the noisy variety. It’s also gotten very difficult to get a long term rental if you live and work in town with MANY being forced to commute in from the Carson valley. It’s not just casinos interested in limiting vacation rentals.

[Paul Blart]

It’s naive to think that small businesses aren’t already being negatively impacted by the current situation. I know for sure the bigger businesses are. The current job market is wide open because employees have nowhere to live. Finding long term housing is an absolute nightmare. Why work in the region when you’re forced to live in Reno/Carson and can find jobs willing to pay equal wages down there? Banning the STR’s would force those with these properties to either let it sit empty or use it for more of a long term rental situation wouldn’t it? All I know is that the current situation in North Lake is an unsustainable disaster.

[TahoeJ]

It’s naive to think that small businesses aren’t already being negatively impacted by the current situation. I know for sure the bigger businesses are. The current job market is wide open because employees have nowhere to live. Finding long term housing is an absolute nightmare. Why work in the region when you’re forced to live in Reno/Carson and can find jobs willing to pay equal wages down there? Banning the STR’s would force those with these properties to either let it sit empty or use it for more of a long term rental situation wouldn’t it? All I know is that the current situation in North Lake is an unsustainable disaster.

Of course businesses are being negatively impacted, as they are in other cities for the same reason. I’m just saying a ban on STR’s won’t fix that problem the way so many people seem to think. That’s it - I totally get the nuisance factor and it’s a legit gripe for sure.

[old goat]

For years every time a development was proposed people would scream that it was too dense. The number of units in a given development would have to be scaled back, greenspace within the development provided. When the general plan was revised single family stand alone houses dominated. We're now seeing the results of that misguided thinking. People are starting to realize that high density, higher rise housing will both help relieve the housing crisis and is more environmentally friendly. Zoning for high density is part of the solution. Currently each unit that's built is charged the same development fees--whether it's a tiny house or a McMansion. Restructuring the fees will make high density more cost competitive. Deed restrictions on appropriate new units that prohibit short term rentals would help. Charging and collecting enough transient occupancy tax to support subsidies for low income housing is another solution. The key to all this is for locals to accept that you don't get to live in paradise and keep the small town atmosphere. There are plenty of places in rural middle America if you want to live in a quiet small town. In the Tahoe area growth, congestion, and density are inevitable--or we can become an enclave of rich people with no stores, schools, repair people, plow drivers, lift ops, hospital, etc because no one who works those kinds of jobs can afford to live here.

[gnarbro365]

It seems like T will just push STRs to the county. No?

I have a hard time imagining a huge hit to the tourism industry. Now that people can’t stay in an 8 bedroom house they’re never coming to SLT again?


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[powdork]

In the Tahoe area growth, congestion, and density are inevitable

Unless we had leaders with balls. Suppose the placer county commission simply said, "Sorry Squaw, we can't allow any more development OF ANY KIND until we get this housing shortage and transportation problem figured out."
Nothing is inevitable as long as people have the power to say no when dollars are waved in front of them. Folks in Cali seem to be increasingly able to do that.

[enlosandes]

You guys should check out the Real Estate market in June Lake. Prices are about 20-35% less than you'd pay in Tahoe/Truckee and there is plenty of room to spread out.

[powdork]

It seems like T will just push STRs to the county. No?

I would think if there was time that would be the case and it may happen to some degree but,
1. Measure T phases out the VHRs over time rather than all at once.
2. There are similar measures (or at least murmurs) about a similar measure (or at least restrictions) in the county.
3. The city locations are typically more desirable, other than perhaps Cold Creek and the Black Bart area which for some reason aren't included within the city limits. Black Bart has one of the main offenders; a 7 bedroom for the sole purpose of vacation rental business. As far as I know this one has never been used for anything else since being built. https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/29183543
4. It's not like an owner can just decide he's gonna move his house to the county, and I wouldn't buy a home in the county for the purpose of a vacation rental given the current trend.

[powdork]

You guys should check out the Real Estate market in June Lake. Prices are about 20-35% less than you'd pay in Tahoe/Truckee and there is plenty of room to spread out.

and because people voted for it there's recreational pot as opposed to here where the prudes in charge have stifled it despite what even they called a mandate.