Wider touring skis for small girlfriend: Underworlds vs Tour1 Zelda's vs others

[skimanguydude]

Hi all,

Sorry to make a new thread. I thought about posting this in the Moment ski discussion, but didn't want to clog up the conversation. If there's somewhere I can move this, let me know.

My girlfriend:
Learned a few seasons ago but can already ski tight steep Vermont trees, 5'3, 120lbs, fit from trail running background (often does 6000ft gain runs on weekend). Uses K2 Remedy 92's in a 156 for all mountain and Armada VJJ's in a 165 for powder (except in tight east coast trees). She loved the VJJ's in deep powder at Alyeska

Skis:
Looking for a touring ski between 100-105 underfoot and 156-165 length to be paired with Radical bindings to be used in the PNW and sometimes AK. She doesn't need a stiff ski, and is a turny, surfy skier. I'm honestly not finding many options, but what I've considered is below. This will be her first set up but she's done a touring day in AK and is in love with it.

Ski	Length	Width	Weight (g) per ski
Moment Underworld 16/17	161	104	1463
DPS Tour1 Zelda	158	106	1215
Atomic Backland FR 102 W	164	102	<1590?
Black Diamond Helio Carbon	165	105	1350

Does anyone have experience with them/their girlfriends using or comparing any of these skis? The Moments may be the front runner, but they're the heaviest. It seems like the DPS Tour1's get the best reviews, but are they worth the extra money? For what it's worth, we have a high household income. Does anyone know the weight of the Backland FR 102 W's in a 164? Any thoughts at all?

Thanks in advance!

[GeezerSteve]

Voile has a new ski: Women's Hypercharger. 164cm = 133/102/118, 18m radius, 1210g (claimed)

[3PinGrin]

Don't overlook the Praxis backcountry: https://www.praxisskis.com/skis/backcountry/

My wife is pretty happy with hers for touring and they are on sale right now. If you are a first time customer you can get an extra 15% off via email.

[auvgeek]

There are tons of options. FWIW, I wouldn't go under 160 for a "wider" touring ski. My wife is 5'4" and 135# and skis a 175 Black Crows Corvus Freebird.

I personally wouldn't drop the coin for the DPS. I'd either spend the money to demo or I'd buy cheaper skis and sell them if she doesn't love them.

Your list is missing:
164 La Sportiva Vapor Nano
164 Voile Hyper Charger
165 Voile Hyper V8
169 Black Crows Navis Freebird
163 Praxis MVP (in UL layup and veneer topsheet)
160 Praxis Backcountry


Why the Radical binding? Personally, I'd either choose the BD Helio 145/200 (for a lightweight setup) or the Tecton (for an alpine feel). The Radical kind of sits in this in-between place where it's heavier than a BD Helio 145 or SSL 2.0 (white) but doesn't really offer more functionality.

[thefortrees]

Don't isolate yourself to women's skis. You might have more options if you look for men + women. There's usually not too much difference b/n men and women builds other than a layer or two of extra material, and I imagine there is even less difference in the lightweight touring category. FWIW, my wife's quiver is a mix of men and women specific skis and loves them all.

[PNWbrit]

Avy 1, and or intro to touring course? You've done one or the other yourself?

Once you've narrowed down infinitesimal differences between skis.

[swissiphic]

Rossi Soul 7hd 156 or 164

[Quadzilla]

My wife got some 164 Voile Superchargers last season as a 100% BC ski and really likes the lightness with the chops to handle heavy and variable snow. I guess the latest version is the Hypercharger but the Supercharger can be found with a better price point and still as light as the skis you have inquired about. Her prior skis were 172 BD Converts and likes the Voiles way better.

[GeezerSteve]

+1 re Brit's comments. Touring technique and safety knowledge is a higher priority than choosing between those skis, all of which will tour just fine.

Re bindings, put Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0 on your list. Inexpensive, very tough, lighter than Radicals. New Turn 2.0 top plate is much easier to turn with pole tip. For older versions, mod with B&D Comfort top plate and volcano for easier mode change and a bit of weight savings.

[davep]

Also: New Voile Hyper V8 in 165 is supposed to be 1225g for 107 waist. https://www.voile.com/voile-hyper-v8-skis.html
Softer, surfier, and less chargy than the Hypercharger above.

[skimanguydude]

Thanks all for the many replies! It seems like there's little love for the Moment's, Atmoics or DPS skis, though the Praxis/Voile options are nearly as expensive as the DPS skis. I think the Hypercharger/V8 will be a strong choice I'll have to find more reviews for and I'm happy to hear positive feedback on it here. Does anyone know how much the Praxis Backcountry weigh in a 160?

I've updated the table as a future resource to someone else below. Regarding bindings, I got the Radical's for a really great deal (but I cannot return them...) and while they are a lot heavier than the Speed Turn 2.0's, they do have more safety release features and brakes. With some more experience though, I could definitely see my girlfriend wanting to forfeit some release properties for a much lighter binding.

Ski	Length	Width	Weight (g) per ski
Moment Underworld 16/17	161	104	1463
DPS Tour1 Zelda	158	106	1215
Atomic Backland FR 102 W	164	102	<1590?
Black Diamond Helio Carbon	165	105	1350
Voile Hypercharger	164	102	1210
Praxis Backcountry	160	106	?
La Sportiva Vapor Nano	164	105	?
Voile Hyper V8	165	107	1225
Voile Supercharger	164	102	1470

Don't isolate yourself to women's skis. You might have more options if you look for men + women. There's usually not too much difference b/n men and women builds other than a layer or two of extra material, and I imagine there is even less difference in the lightweight touring category. FWIW, my wife's quiver is a mix of men and women specific skis and loves them all.

I totally agree with you - my impetus for asking about women's skis in particular was due to the shorter length, but it seems like there are plenty of unisex models that go down to 160

+1 re Brit's comments. Touring technique and safety knowledge is a higher priority than choosing between those skis, all of which will tour just fine.

Avy 1, and or intro to touring course? You've done one or the other yourself?

Once you've narrowed down infinitesimal differences between skis.

We'll definitely both take Avy 1 before we go out touring, probably at Hatcher Pass because I've heard they have the best weekend course in the country. I appreciate the concern and reminder, but also, it is August which is a good time to buy discounted skis and a bad time to take an avy course. BTW, I ended up going with Bibby Tour's I snagged for $399 on one of Moment's instagram story sales. Stoked!

[SkiLyft]

FWIW my wife skied the Atomic Backland 102 for a season. They replaced her remedy 92. She loved them when touring, due to being much lighter. However she was looking for a 1 quiver ski so when she brought them in bounds the tips were just too light they we quite chattery and would deflect at the smallest things. From what your saying it seems this would just be a touring rig so that could work out nicely.

The better half is now in the remedy 102 and is quite happy.


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[auvgeek]

Regarding bindings, I got the Radical's for a really great deal (but I cannot return them...) and while they are a lot heavier than the Speed Turn 2.0's, they do have more safety release features and brakes. With some more experience though, I could definitely see my girlfriend wanting to forfeit some release properties for a much lighter binding.

I'm pretty sure the rotating toe on the Radicals doesn't results in any real-world safety benefit. You'd have to go with something that actually releases laterally at the toe (aka Vipec/Tecton, Shift, or Trab) for different though not necessarily "better" safety release features. Look up the differences between toe release and heel release on wildsnow -- basically a toe release helps save the tib/fib fracture and sprained ankle while a heel release helps save the ACL in a backwards twisting fall. Almost everyone I know thinks that the rotating Radical toe is harder to step into without providing substantial release benefit at an unreasonable weight penalty. Plus, the Rad 1.0 heel pieces used to have issues exploding ... maybe not a high failure rate in the grand scheme of things but definitely compared to a tried-and-true design like the speed turn.

People are really split about brakes -- they're certainly more useful for pow touring than spring touring but most people I know forgo them entirely. If you really want brakes, the best options IMHO are
- Tecton/Vipec. Alpine style release at the toe
- Sally MTN with brake. Low ramp angle, light, release selected by spring strength (6, 8, or 10)
- Dynafit Speed Radical toes + SSL 2.0 White heels w. brakes. Low ramp, UL, adjustable lateral and fixed vertical release. (SSL 2.0 toe is probably completely fine but has a history of minor cracks near the screws, while I haven't seen/heard of any failures of the Speed Rad toe )

By all means keep the Radicals but if I was going to spend up to $1k on a ski for my wife, I'd get a better/lighter binding. If they were really a good deal, you should be able to flip them on here no problem.

[doebedoe]

And what auvgeek says applies to Radical 2.0 just as much as Radical 1.0. The "rotating toe" of the Rad 2 design still does not release laterally a la Vipec/Tecton/Shift/Trab. And it makes it more of a pain to step into than the Rad 1. I think the only advantage is a theoretical reduction of pre-release due to a bit of give, but who knows if that really works in practice.

[PNWbrit]

We'll definitely both take Avy 1 before we go out touring, probably at Hatcher Pass because I've heard they have the best weekend course in the country

Aren't you in Seattle?

Most definitely no need to travel to Alaska to take an avalanche course.

[underover]

I tour on this ski https://www.coalitionsnow.com/collec...pfire-birdsong actually designed by women for touring. Disclaimer: I helped design the ski (I am a woman) and designed the graphics. They are 113 underfoot but are more nimble than they would seem.

[nwslider]

My girlfriend has the wailer 106 in a 168 w/ Rad 2's and she loves the setup. It's her only touring ski so she skis it year round and has no complaints about performance in powder or corn. She likes it better than both her other skis (W's Salomon 115, can't remember the name and Atomic Vantage 85s).

I have the La Sportiva Vapor Nanos in a 172 with speed turns. They are super light and awesome on the up. They ski powder well enough and ski corn surprisingly well for their weight. They get bucked around in icy chop or hard suncups as one would expect. Seems like there's no shortage of good options in this category though.

I would avoid the Rad 2 binding because they're heavier than necessary and, as others have mentioned, they're super fiddly. It takes my girlfriend multiple attempts to step in properly even now with a few dozens tours on them. I personally like the speed turns, but a good compromise might be speed radicals -- less fiddly to step in but still has risers that flip instead of by turning the heel piece.

If you haven't found WildSnow, you should check out that site. They've reviewed a lot of the skis and bindings on your list.

[SumJongGuy]

Wider touring skis for small girlfriend:

Seems like a fair trade..

[1000-oaks]

Hypercharger looks like a nice addition to the ~107mm class, along with the 2019 Atomic Backland 107. How do the mid-fat and narrow Voiles do on hard snow, since they're cap skis?

So many tempting new skis this season.

[GeezerSteve]

How do the mid-fat and narrow Voiles do on hard snow, since they're cap skis?

Pretty well compared to skis of similar weight. As a general rule, Voiles are torisionally stiff. Of course, no lightweight touring ski can perform like an alpine front side ski.

[retsalb]

Just sharing a couple other options I came across while looking for some touring pow skis for my significant other. We decided to skip anything over 3kg/pair as straight lining mach 4 in the backcountry was never a high priority for her.

Ski	Weight (kg)/Pair	Dimensions	Length
Voile V8	2.75/2.45 for Hyper	134-107-117	165
BD Helio 105 Carbon	2.8	131-105-118	165
Praxis Backcountry	2.9	130-106-122	160
G3 SEEKr 110	2.74	139-110-127	164
BD Helio 116 Carbon	3	141-116-125	166
Backland 102	3	129-102-120	165

[Tailwind]

Prior Flute, 163 cm XTC Carbon build would fit her nicely.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

I recently bought Moment Deathwish Tour 171 for my gf, she has almost same height, probably just 5-6 pound heavier. She prefers longer skis, her main pow ski is Armada JJ 175.
Why we picked Deathwish Tour 171:
- Moment skis usually measure 1.5-2cm shorter, so it would be ~169
- New build is 1400g/ski in 171, 106 underfoot
- Deathwish Tour is soft. I'd say as soft as JJ. She finds it predictable, forgiving, easy to ski yet stable enough.
- They are twin-rocker. Twin rockers are easier to ski, less demanding to your skiing skills and athletism. Also she isn't charging, prefers low and medium speeds.
- Triple camber actually works. I have Underworld 181 and I was amazed how good it was on hardpack, refrozen, etc.
- Moment makes awesome skis

hope that helps

[sf]

Hi all,

Sorry to make a new thread. I thought about posting this in the Moment ski discussion, but didn't want to clog up the conversation. If there's somewhere I can move this, let me know.

My girlfriend:
Learned a few seasons ago but can already ski tight steep Vermont trees, 5'3, 120lbs, fit from trail running background (often does 6000ft gain runs on weekend). Uses K2 Remedy 92's in a 156 for all mountain and Armada VJJ's in a 165 for powder (except in tight east coast trees). She loved the VJJ's in deep powder at Alyeska

Skis:
Looking for a touring ski between 100-105 underfoot and 156-165 length to be paired with Radical bindings to be used in the PNW and sometimes AK. She doesn't need a stiff ski, and is a turny, surfy skier. I'm honestly not finding many options, but what I've considered is below. This will be her first set up but she's done a touring day in AK and is in love with it.

Ski	Length	Width	Weight (g) per ski
Moment Underworld 16/17	161	104	1463
DPS Tour1 Zelda	158	106	1215
Atomic Backland FR 102 W	164	102	<1590?
Black Diamond Helio Carbon	165	105	1350

Does anyone have experience with them/their girlfriends using or comparing any of these skis? The Moments may be the front runner, but they're the heaviest. It seems like the DPS Tour1's get the best reviews, but are they worth the extra money? For what it's worth, we have a high household income. Does anyone know the weight of the Backland FR 102 W's in a 164? Any thoughts at all?

Thanks in advance!

My GF pretty much fits the same physical profile. Experienced skier, but not much touring experience.
She's skied Black Crows Navis 176 for years. Handled them fine, but a bit too long and stiff for her.

Picked up 172 Line Pandora 104 this year. Nice profile, nice flex. I'm confident it will work out great.

The 165 should suit your girl well. Probably ~3kgs for the pair.

[skimanguydude]

Thanks again to everyone who posted. I thought I'd follow up. My GF actually ended up going with the 165 Tracer W 108's and she really likes them. Given that she's only skied two days on them in very crusty Alpental trees and still likes them, I think they'll be a great ski. For their width, they still are very nimble in the trees.