Phase 1 - Appetite Discovery | TGR Ski Lending Library

[margotron]

Introduction

Hi friends.

I am initializing `Phase 1 - Appetite Discovery` for a hypothetical ski lending library, whereby TGR mags mail skis to each other to test. Ski companies do this with demo skis all the time and it has happened informally between TGR members in the past.

Background & Reason

There are many ‘TGR Approved’ skis that not everyone has skied. Don’t make me list them, ask Betelgeuse. Not all of us can pop over and demo all the skis that our hearts’ desire. Nor can we all buy them outright. Thus, the need for a TGR Ski Lending Library.


Now before you mention Vitamin I’s mobile subaru circus, which is rad af, I want to clarify that this would be based on members circulating in-demand skis via mail. So it has a different flavor than meeting Mark (Vitamin I) in the parking lot of Squaw.

The Question

Is there interest in a dedicated TGR lending library that mails skis around between mags that come mounted with demo binders?

Imagine $50 to buy into the `club`. All proceeds are used to buy skis here on the forums in full visibility with total financial transparency. I volunteer to keep a public google docs spreadsheet, like the Shift spreadsheet I kept, showing donations and purchases. Members (you guys) could vote on what skis should be targeted to add to the library. If we can get the ball rolling, we may be able to get ski companies to donate skis to the TGR Ski Lending Library (TSLL) in future years.

Plan of Action

Set up a dedicated paypal account. If I don't have the street cred to pull this off, I urge someone else to step up.

First priority would be to pick up cheap skis, probably on their 2nd or 3rd mount, here in Gear Swap and then mount with demo binders using inserts. At the outset, I can manage the buying and mounting myself. In practice, one would pay shipping to have a ski sent to you from the current renter. One could place a "hold" to get in line for a specific ski just like at a regular library for a specific book. The rental would extend until someone places a hold (by paying for a pre-paid shipping label to their house). Then you have a week to ski before mailing (up for debate on the length of time).

Membership fees could be waived by donation of certain in-demand ski models or demo binders, thereby incentivizing membership.

Community Oriented Utility

All Lending Library skis would be mounted with modern demo bindings on the line. Repairs / ptex would come out of the membership fees. Skis that have been ‘skied out’ will be donated to youth ski programs

Work in Progress Disclaimer:

As stated, this is a feeler. Please reply with your thoughts, interest, improvements, willingness to donate, thoughts on the donation level ($50?), if you have skis you would donate, etc.

Finally, if I lack the street cred to do this, I would be more than pleased if someone else would take the reins.

Community Endorsement

The following is a reply from Mark re this idea advocating his endorsement:

Sweet! Please run with this. Feel free to keep discussing it in this thread, or start a separate thread...your choice. Yes, I was hoping the community would come up with better ideas (like yours) to make more sharing happen. I'm not sure if "my way" will work, or be desirable, or be sustainable for even 1 season, let alone multiple seasons. "My way" is to make it free, and operate at a loss, and see what happens---but later I might hit a wall and be forced to request voluntary donations of $, or blocks of wax, or tuning labor, etc.

I'm stoked for your way to improve upon my way, or maybe someone else will even improve on your way---and I'd be stoked if I had played any small role in triggering some inspiration for more sharing.

ABOUT YOUR WAY:
1.) I like that your way better distributes the costs among all the benefitting parties. The costs will surely be low per member, unless your club buys the newest, highest-demand, highest-price skis...or if you're not great at finding low-price deals.
2.) Using "my way", I can't afford the most expensive skis even if I wanted to---and if I do treat myself to high-price skis, then goddammit I'm putting my favorite 916 bindings on them---which means no BSL adjustability for everyone else. So, I mount demo bindings only on the pairs I don't cherish---but your way mounts demo bindings on EVERY ski, nice!
3.) I guess you need to set a time limit for borrowing a ski. No prob, as long as it's enough days to justify the borrower's shipping expense.

If your club accepts well-used beater versions of older but high-performance ski models, then I think I will be a good contributor of those kinds of skis. (I would never contribute my more precious skis like Spatulas, but it seems easy for me to acquire LOTS of beater skis that I would contribute to your mail-order collection, if anyone would want to ski them.)

.

[abraham]

Introduction

Hi friends.


I am initializing `Phase 1 - Appetite Discovery` for a hypothetical ski lending library, whereby TGR mags mail skis to each other to test. Ski companies do this with demo skis all the time and it has happened informally between TGR members in the past.



Background & Reason

There are many ‘TGR Approved’ skis that not everyone has skied. Don’t make me list them, ask Betelgeuse. Not all of us can pop over and demo all the skis that our hearts’ desire. Nor can we all buy them outright. Thus, the need for a TGR Ski Lending Library.


Now before you mention Vitamin I’s mobile subaru circus, which is rad af, I want to clarify that this would be based on members circulating in-demand skis via mail. So it has a different flavor than meeting Mark (Vitamin I) in the parking lot of Squaw.



The Question

Is there interest in a dedicated TGR lending library that mails skis around between mags that come mounted with demo binders?


Imagine $50 to buy into the `club`. All proceeds are used to buy skis here on the forums in full visibility with total financial transparency. I volunteer to keep a public google docs spreadsheet, like the Shift spreadsheet I kept, showing donations and purchases. Members (you guys) could vote on what skis should be targeted to add to the library. If we can get the ball rolling, we may be able to get ski companies to donate skis to the TGR Ski Lending Library (TSLL) in future years.


Plan of Action


Set up a dedicated paypal account. If I don't have the street cred to pull this off, I urge someone else to step up.

First priority would be to pick up cheap skis, probably on their 2nd or 3rd mount, here in Gear Swap and then mount with demo binders using inserts. At the outset, I can manage the buying and mounting myself. In practice, one would pay shipping to have a ski sent to you from the current renter. One could place a "hold" to get in line for a specific ski just like at a regular library for a specific book. The rental would extend until someone places a hold (by paying for a pre-paid shipping label to their house). Then you have a week to ski before mailing (up for debate on the length of time).


Membership fees could be waived by donation of certain in-demand ski models or demo binders, thereby incentivizing membership.


Community Oriented Utility


All Lending Library skis would be mounted with modern demo bindings on the line. Repairs / ptex would come out of the membership fees. Skis that have been ‘skied out’ will be donated to youth ski programs


Work in Progress Disclaimer:


As stated, this is a feeler. Please reply with your thoughts, interest, improvements, willingness to donate, thoughts on the donation level ($50?), if you have skis you would donate, etc.


Finally, if I lack the street cred to do this, I would be more than pleased if someone else would take the reins.


Community Endorsement


The following is a reply from Mark re this idea advocating his endorsement:

Quick thoughts:

1)Check out this thread https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=102864

²)Shipping skis gets expensive. Handoffs might work better? But it's less certain the skis get around to those who contribute or want to try a given ski.

3) I'd put a pair of skis for use in Seattle, and I've borrowed skis in two other places before. A thread for that might be useful but that's a different concept from yours.

4) Not trying to shit on your idea. Just some complications

[SkiLyft]

Love the idea!!
My 2c
1. When a person is done with the skis maybe have them repair any minor base damage and wax them before returning them. This will mitigate more work on your end.
2. Shipping is expensive, so handoffs could work. Or if skis have inserts then just ship without bindings and each member buys a marker demo binder.
3. What if we put a spreadsheet together of skis that people have and their location that they would mind lending out. So instead of a centrally located library this would be a list of skis near by that you could demo.


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[m2711c]

I think this is a great idea.

[skifishbum]

while i myself wont spend money on nor bother spending time mailing skis
i would be happy to help facilitate acquiring, mounting demo bindings and showing maggots skis luv when needed
and your font choices hurt my old man blue screen eyes

[margotron]

Quick thoughts:

1)Check out this thread https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=102864

²)Shipping skis gets expensive. Handoffs might work better? But it's less certain the skis get around to those who contribute or want to try a given ski.

3) I'd put a pair of skis for use in Seattle, and I've borrowed skis in two other places before. A thread for that might be useful but that's a different concept from yours.

4) Not trying to shit on your idea. Just some complications

1) No shit. How did that work out? Basically same idea
Great stuff. I think local borrows / swaps are great. They happen infrequently on the Stoke threads in general sometimes (i.e. i've swapped skis in Tahoe with folk I met on the Tahoe stoke thread). But there could be one for areas as well.

2) we could work on the shipping i think. I'd be happy to form a company and get a registered shipping account with UPS or something that everyone could use. and remember, shipping comes out of the shippee's pockets -- so in theory only people that are willing to pay for shipping will use the service (which does limit utility of the service). Say you pay $40 to have a ski shipped to you and you get to ski it for a week - sounds better than paying to demo it for one day or having a ski for 1-2 runs like on a demo day. Not to mention hard to find Praxis/ON3P/Moment/4FRNT/Liberty/etc skis to demo.

i feel like this would work on a local level. kinda like a dating site for skis that get swapped around to different partners.

maybe this is how it should work? i feel like with that, if you don't live in tahoe/seattle/denver/bozeman/salt lake/jackson, you're kinda boned. but maybe that is where everyone lives

Love the idea!!
My 2c
1. When a person is done with the skis maybe have them repair any minor base damage and wax them before returning them. This will mitigate more work on your end.
2. Shipping is expensive, so handoffs could work. Or if skis have inserts then just ship without bindings and each member buys a marker demo binder.
3. What if we put a spreadsheet together of skis that people have and their location that they would mind lending out. So instead of a centrally located library this would be a list of skis near by that you could demo.

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#3 might be the ticket. and #1 makes sense - we could certainly request people do that - wax and ptex is like, 10 dollars at most (i assume most people here wax their own skis and can operate a candle)

while i myself wont spend money on nor bother spending time mailing skis
i would be happy to help facilitate acquiring, mounting demo bindings and showing maggots skis luv when needed
and your font choices hurt my old man blue screen eyes

font changed! better or worse?

and mailing skis really aint thattttt bad. specially when it comes in the box you send it out with and you use a pre-paid label printed and taped on at home. that way you just drop it off somewhere. who waits in line nowadays?? blue screen old men?

[skifishbum]

the crusty old blue screen techs offerin to help take care of your skis
much like hes done for a bakers dozen seasons
why ya wanna check his teefers
or tell him what to do with his lawn

normal white font works best
probably why its default

[Sandbox]

I would most likely be in. There are a lot of skis id like to demo but usually miss out on demos as I hate skiing on the weekend.

Not sure if it was discussed but the collective could buy skis from jongs to add to the quiver. Go through the gear swap, buy some red skis!


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[Muggydude]

The local idea is a good one. Either have locals swap their skis around in different areas, and/or ship skis to a specific areas with a lot of members at various times during a year when they sign up to use them

I.e. if a big storm track is heading to pnw, and Colorado is dry - ship the fatties out west until the storm track changes

[SumJongGuy]

A few years ago I was kicking around a similar idea.. like a Blockbuster Membership type place that has skis instead of videos.. with shops in every resort town. Walk in with your card and your boots and walk out with whatever skis you want to ski that day/week then return them when finished, on the way to the airport, whatever.. I guess now we could just have an Uber type app and anyone could rent their skis out.

[Vitamin I]

I'm still thinking things through...

A few years ago I was kicking around a similar idea.. like a Blockbuster Membership type place that has skis instead of videos.. with shops in every resort town...

It appears that Awayco is trying that. The problem for me is I'm not average. I think Awayco will be serving "vanilla" to the general skiing public, and the definition of average "vanilla" for that huge group is a bunch of skis that are shorter and weaker than what I like. You know, like these skis at https://www.facebook.com/awayco/phot...type=3&theater

...I guess now we could just have an Uber type app and anyone could rent their skis out.

Yes, I think that's the model to hope for---individuals sharing with other individuals, and the central body mostly just facilitates and motivates those sharing transactions. Don't need an app, though.

...3. What if we put a spreadsheet together of skis that people have and their location that they would mind lending out. So instead of a centrally located library this would be a list of skis near by that you could demo.

Yes, I like that #3 idea of y'all using TGR Forums (and spreadsheets or whatever) to do it in Year1, while I also do my own Mobile Library in Year1 on my crappy experimental website. After we learn and dial in the process in Year1, then for Year2 I could offer to implement a better custom website...only if we wanted some powerful custom features to improve on any limitations of the spreadsheets + Forums etc.

RE: Club spending by majority rule, & shipping:
Fundamentally, I like that #3 idea, in that it shifts the idea away from a club trying to spend membership dues in a way that pleases all members. I think it would be too challenging for a single TGR majority rule to please TGR minorities. I doubt even "TGR vanilla" would please all of TGR. Like, a 120-lb maggette will get outvoted every time if all she wants is for the club to buy a 156cm ski, and my fat-ass will probably get outvoted every time if all I want is for the club to buy a 196cm Volkl Three. That problem could be mitigated by having many small clubs with independent budgets and self-governance, divided up in ways such that there's more common tastes within each little club. But the individual-to-individual model seems more promising to me. With individuals, a central body could still promote and facilitate individuals working together for whatever efficiency opportunities come up...but I guess this thinking still results in faraway isolated maggots getting fewer advantages and paying more shipping costs than the maggots in hot spot locations. Instead of 50 club members spread out across the USA co-owning a ski, maybe 4 guys in Tahoe decide to co-own a ski like a "timeshare" without any shipping...and they can ship it to a faraway borrower if they want. I dunno.

.

[Viva]

Rather than mailing skies, how about hiring a young Oriental stripper to personally deliver the skis and give a complementary hummer?

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[sruffian]

It appears that Awayco is trying that.

Seems proof apparent that it's a good model. Makes sense to me, with all the 'car-sharing', 'house sharing' etc shit that someone would distribute the cost of using skis across a big network. We all sit around with 10+ pairs of skis at home, so a given pair is getting used what, like 1% of the time??

I have some experience in organizing grassroots tool-sharing efforts, etc, and my two cents would be -

- Try multiple models in the first year. See how Vitamin's tour goes, make a bigger effort in local threads to develop lending libraries, and maybe try a small shipping co op kinda thing

- Focus on the strengths first - I have a feeling there's a ton of people here who would pay $50 to get on a pair of 186 bg's or 190 bibby's. Same thing with other classics, like Protests, etc. I would think that starting a collaboration around the most sought-after designs in the most common sizes would maximize user buy-in from the start (you could imagine 195+ co ops, 160-170 coops, etc starting up in subsequent years)

[detuned]

I'm all in for this kind of thing. Every time I've bought a lotto ticket I thought "One thing I'll do is get a large ski quiver and head up the hill and let folks try em out for free"

Well, I've yet to win the lotto...yet. But this idea sounds pretty cool and I'm game to help out on the "local" level. I'm nowhere near any epic resorts but if there's a bunch or even a few people in NW MT that wanna get together and try to work something out lets do it!

[Self Jupiter]

I live in NE and ya’ll kooks is welcome to borrow my skis if ya 295ish’n the BSL, see quiver thread for ze menu. I got a big box on my car and plan on haulin around many skis at once for maximum nerdery

[SkiLyft]

@margo. Wanna get a google sheet online so people can start filling out location and if they are in and maybe what skis they can put on the demo list?


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[margotron]

@margo. Wanna get a google sheet online so people can start filling out location and if they are in and maybe what skis they can put on the demo list?


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Word. This seems like a natural step 2. We've got the appetite. Time to see what ingredients we have in the fridge


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[margotron]

Seems proof apparent that it's a good model. Makes sense to me, with all the 'car-sharing', 'house sharing' etc shit that someone would distribute the cost of using skis across a big network. We all sit around with 10+ pairs of skis at home, so a given pair is getting used what, like 1% of the time??

I have some experience in organizing grassroots tool-sharing efforts, etc, and my two cents would be -

- Try multiple models in the first year. See how Vitamin's tour goes, make a bigger effort in local threads to develop lending libraries, and maybe try a small shipping co op kinda thing

- Focus on the strengths first - I have a feeling there's a ton of people here who would pay $50 to get on a pair of 186 bg's or 190 bibby's. Same thing with other classics, like Protests, etc. I would think that starting a collaboration around the most sought-after designs in the most common sizes would maximize user buy-in from the start (you could imagine 195+ co ops, 160-170 coops, etc starting up in subsequent years)

This was said so well. Agree on all fronts. And def going to focus on the cult classics. We should get a Top 10 Targets list going but the obvious ones are BGs, Bibby's, Protests, Kartels...

I'm all in for this kind of thing. Every time I've bought a lotto ticket I thought "One thing I'll do is get a large ski quiver and head up the hill and let folks try em out for free"

Well, I've yet to win the lotto...yet. But this idea sounds pretty cool and I'm game to help out on the "local" level. I'm nowhere near any epic resorts but if there's a bunch or even a few people in NW MT that wanna get together and try to work something out lets do it!

I'm in NW MT! Well Missoula. Are you in Whitefish?

[detuned]

Are you in Whitefish?

Yep

I'm actually gonna be passing through Missoula this weekend, Sunday afternoon. If you wanna meet up n grab a beer or whatever I'm game.

pm me if interested