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  1. #351
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    After one day of skiing skinny RX, albeit in perfect pow, I’m pretty sold. More fun than black crow Navis and praxis backcountry.

  2. #352
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevino View Post
    After one day of skiing skinny RX, albeit in perfect pow, I’m pretty sold. More fun than black crow Navis and praxis backcountry.
    More fun...meaning easier to ski? Meaning more in the fall line? More stable at speed? Do you mind elaborating?
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
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  3. #353
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    Sep 2009
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    Calgary, AB
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    More fun...meaning easier to ski? Meaning more in the fall line? More stable at speed? Do you mind elaborating?
    I won't speak for Kevino and I have no experience on the Black Crows...but I do own Backcountry's as well as my backcountry setup. From my experience, the backcountry has got a little more float and flow to it. I find it likes a little more predictable line choice and loves just linking a bunch of sweet turns together in some perfect glades and backcountry chutes. Not nearly as charged up, though this could have something to do with the build. It still does really well in the tight spaces but just my personal opinion on where it shines. My wife skis this as her every day guy in an enduro layup, and she loves it. She is a phenomenal skier and a bit more fall line driven so I think the flow down the line works really well for her.
    The RX on the other hand feels a bit more like a do it all fucking ninja for me. And not sure why, but the little bit mellower feeling tip turn up, and the bit longer camber contact just made it feel like it wanted to go fast and be creative. I got the feeling that it didn't want to stand at the top of a line and see the bottom and just throw down your powder 8's....more stand at the top of a tree line, and rally into it faster than you should and know it could figure out whats on the other side of that tree that you won't see until you get there. That probably makes no sense, but it kind of does in my head. I guess I just think the skinny RX has a little more improvising in it than the BC to my skiing style, which was pretty fun to get used to. And not necessarily more demanding through and through, just a bit more ski that can handle a few more hurdles without a shit ton of effort.

  4. #354
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    Jan 2017
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    398
    Guys, what do you think about RX 169 vs GPO 165 for a girl?
    Looking for a resort pow/pow touring ski for a GF, she is 5'3, 130, currently skis Armada JJs 175. Despite huge rockers they are just too long for her. Now we also ski more trees, than open terrain, so that extra lenght is just odd. She likes the width on armadas and she also has a 106 waist ski, so that's why 111 or 116. She also wants skis to be a little stiffer and stable but yet playful as she's not a charger - flex 2 maybe?
    I know what flowing alpy answer will be.

  5. #355
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    Dec 2010
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    whistler
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    protest.

  6. #356
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    Nov 2006
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    idaho panhandle!
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    9,949
    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    protest.
    There just happens to be a pair her size in GS.

  7. #357
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    I spent a couple of seasons on JJs. I think the transition to a GPO would be pretty seamless. While the splay is more subtle (atleast than my first gen JJ) the rocker length on the GPO is still really long, This makes it a fun and easy pow ski, that's also quick and enjoyable on the groom. For flex I'd ask Keith, but 2 sounds right unless she rages.

    My JJs were noodles everywhere except underfoot which is one of the reasons they were not great anywhere other than untracked, or funny enough...groomers. The flex is quite uniform throughout the GPO with no dramatic hinge points like the JJ.

    Alpy will have all your Rx answers for sure.

  8. #358
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    Jan 2017
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    398
    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    There just happens to be a pair her size in GS.
    Yeah, I saw that. One of the reasons I decided to research Praxis options for women Not sure about the Protest though. Looks like no sidecut at all. I'm sure it is awesome pow ski, but just too much powder specific. That's one of the reasons for changing JJs, something more versatile needed. We usually chase snowstorms in our trips so resort conditions are chopped pow/soft bumps. When resort gets tracked out we just go out and tour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shu Shu View Post
    I spent a couple of seasons on JJs. I think the transition to a GPO would be pretty seamless. While the splay is more subtle (atleast than my first gen JJ) the rocker length on the GPO is still really long, This makes it a fun and easy pow ski, that's also quick and enjoyable on the groom. For flex I'd ask Keith, but 2 sounds right unless she rages.

    My JJs were noodles everywhere except underfoot which is one of the reasons they were not great anywhere other than untracked, or funny enough...groomers. The flex is quite uniform throughout the GPO with no dramatic hinge points like the JJ.

    Alpy will have all your Rx answers for sure.
    Yeah, JJs are noodles for sure, whatever gen. Even she said they are too soft, and she has basic JJ, not the vjj. Thanks for the short comparison, I like how GPO sounds. After switching from JJs, did you feel GPOs were too locked? Are they easy to shut down in trees?

  9. #359
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    Sep 2009
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    Calgary, AB
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    232
    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    Yeah, I saw that. One of the reasons I decided to research Praxis options for women Not sure about the Protest though. Looks like no sidecut at all. I'm sure it is awesome pow ski, but just too much powder specific. That's one of the reasons for changing JJs, something more versatile needed. We usually chase snowstorms in our trips so resort conditions are chopped pow/soft bumps. When resort gets tracked out we just go out and tour.



    Yeah, JJs are noodles for sure, whatever gen. Even she said they are too soft, and she has basic JJ, not the vjj. Thanks for the short comparison, I like how GPO sounds. After switching from JJs, did you feel GPOs were too locked? Are they easy to shut down in trees?
    Absolutely not, one of the quickest skis I have ever owned. I think the subtle shapes and uniformed flex plays to this, as with the JJ I find if the snow wasn't super predictable, it could easily bend and hook when trying to throw it sideways. The GPO on the other hand sort of just slices around and through things. For skis i have been on, the GPO is top class in rally fast and shut it down as needed category.

  10. #360
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    810
    "Wife-Test"....minus 10 Protest 177, my wife is 5'5" and 120.......part of the reason why Keith reached back out to me to see if I wanted to continue down the this path, especially after reading the history of this idea years ago. He thought that with a light weigh skier (but a solid skier) the minus 10 may work....we all know Keith wont just "do it" if he's against the build and I sure as hell wasn't pushing but 2 weeks later he reached back out.

    My wife LOVES her Backcountry 170's flex 3 MAP....We mounted the minus 10 protest on the line knowing it was more forward then the BC. The first comment from her was weight, they are standard build flex 2, heavy though in general. It was a tale of 2 days....pow and then 11am mank wettish chop (EC guys know what Sunday bought). In the light untouched she could feel the float and it was a weird feeling b/c she's never been on a shape like this and defaults to the BC as the best ski ever made for her. She was figuring out the ski for the better part of 2hrs, liking then not liking b/c of conditions. Where she didn't was typically mega chopped up areas b/c she was getting kicked around (widest ski she's ever skied), I blame skier and shape (not just one ) but I was on my 192 and although I wasn't mental like her I appreciated what she was dealing with. The Concept is just so deadly in those variable conditions (which I went back to).

    Part of her issue was due to trying to drive the ski, that in itself was a bit odd to her b/c its so untraditional for a person who is used to more traditional sidecuts and shapes. I'd watch her downhill ski not come around as she tried to drive. I gave my input on how to ski them but sometimes you can say to much...which I was... I bit my tongue so she could figure it out (I'm a smart husband at times). As she needed to remind me "skiing is fun and I don't need to nerd out like you"....a fair and taken point. My response is always "i'm trying to enhance your experience"

    So the Jury is out currently, she knew minus 10 Protest test drive was b/c we mounted them and expected the snow to stay drier and since that didn't happen she longed for the BC...I got a good laugh b/c once on the BC she was comfy in her short fall line turns (she instantly clicked with BC when we picked it up a few years back). I do think its worth my time to mount further back from the line to get more in line with the BC mount point and to decrease some tail length but I also knew this is an exercise is "does this shape work for lighter weight woman"

    So maybe not the best review b/c of limited time on the ski but she didn't hate the minus 10....but also didn't find instant happiness which is 100% b/c of the general shape of this type of ski and how foreign it is to her (conditions too).

    We mounted on the line for her MTN Explore W boot. She skied the minus 10 Protest in her alpine boot which is 4mm longer then her touring boot.

    More to come on this....

  11. #361
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    That's one of the reasons for changing JJs, something more versatile needed. We usually chase snowstorms in our trips so resort conditions are chopped pow/soft bumps. When resort gets tracked out we just go out and tour... After switching from JJs, did you feel GPOs were too locked? Are they easy to shut down in trees?
    Given your storm chasing habits, honestly the GPO sounds pretty perfect. I find the Q better at resort chop, but the GPO is the overall more user friendly ski, and doesn't require nearly as much fall line speed to come alive. As Danny beautifully put, its very easy to shut down and thread tight tree lines. IMO the only wide praxis ski better at trees is the Concept, which pivots instantly.

    JMARs, thanks for the initial thoughts review of the -10 protest. I've also struggled with the width of the Protest in mank

  12. #362
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    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
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    1,465

    2018-19 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

    Jmars-Good stuff, thanks. look forward to hearing how it works out. I do find that I really stand up on Protests so I totally agree with you on part of her issue is being used to driving skis. This is a pretty fun experiment to follow, appreciate the updates.
    Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!

  13. #363
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    Mar 2007
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    8,378

    2018-19 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    We usually chase snowstorms in our trips so resort conditions are chopped pow/soft bumps. When resort gets tracked out we just go out and tour.
    ... After switching from JJs, did you feel GPOs were too locked? Are they easy to shut down in trees?
    GPOs are outrageously good in resort chop. I love my BC’s so much for touring though, I’m skeptical that I’d ever want to mount touring bindings on my GPO. Something about that shark nose on the GPO that doesn’t float as well as the BC unless it’s mounted like -2 behind the line, and it’s such a stiffer nose that doesn’t pull itself up like a softer BC nose.

    The GPO does shut down and come around with ease if you de-tune it, I feel like the level of looseness vs how locked in is controlled by how much you detune the contact points. I like this ski best with a really aggressively de-tuned tail (softened well at the widest point of the tail and 1-2 cm into the sidecut) and a very mild detune up front (only on the reverse sidecut portion). This makes it engage edge and turn initiation really fast for a 116 waist ski, still hold the line, but release when you want even if still in the backseat or not perfectly unweighted.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmars View Post
    "Wife-Test"....minus 10 Protest 177, ...

    I'd watch her downhill ski not come around as she tried to drive.
    Did you de tune the Protest before skiing it? I’m sure part of it is stance (the original BC’s had the dimple something like -12 cm from ski center before moving forward 2 cm) but I even disliked the first hour on my BC’s before softening the edges at the reverse sidecut areas, and I could not release the tails on the GPO to save my life until I went crazy with the file (45 degree angle and rounded the shit out of the reverse sidecut sections) ... now I love my GPO and can make mostly any shape turn I want.

    The Protest has to be much stiffer at tip and tail rocker transition zones than the BC, which probably keeps those areas way more engaged when your wife is trying to release them. I only weigh 130 lbs so I know what it’s like trying to drive a bigger ski with a stiffer wide nose.
    Oh yeah, remind us which flex you went with on the skinny Protest? I wonder how it compares to the Flex 3 BC.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  14. #364
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    810
    I find Keith’s tunes sharp so a detune always happens first but you’re fully right in regards to the stiffer rocker zones. The minus 10 is flex 2

    She doesn’t feel the width or length she claims...so that’s a positive.

    Her BC is 2-3 seasons old, I’m forgetting right now. A possible remount back off the line maybe the move for her style and comfort on the protest...things to come.

  15. #365
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Juneau
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    1,093
    Well I'll chime in for the Rx since I haven't skied a GPO, Q, or Protest (but yes to the Wootest). The Rx is a fantastic ski for powder and resort chop. It floats well, it's stable and damp, and surprisingly quick through turns. I have the 184, #4, enduro with carbon, and a veneer. I tour and ski inbounds it. Best ski in my quiver. I wouldn't hesitate to get a pair for my wife in 169, but she's not 1/10 the ski whore I am. I've known her for 15 years, and she skied Ross Bandits for too many years (incl before I knew her), G3 Zest for 5, and is now loving ON3P Jessie's and not sure if she'll switch in my lifetime.

  16. #366
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    whistler
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    i detuned the absolute piss out of my protests after skiing them for 2 days. This really made them a lot more manageable on hardpack as there's so much taper that if it engages it can be a bit like a baby version of the R/R leg anarchy.

    After that, it took me another 2 days ish to get to the point of symbiosis. Now you can pry them out of my cold dead hands.

  17. #367
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    810
    Thanks Nickel....may need to define further and especially underfoot. Lord knows a shape like this has a mental side for a skier use to driving a ski. Standing up taller and more centered is a foreign feeling for many...something that is broken through extended use of the tool.

    Getting the minus 10 in 3D snow is needed

  18. #368
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    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
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    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    We usually chase snowstorms in our trips so resort conditions are chopped pow/soft bumps. When resort gets tracked out we just go out and tour.
    FWIW I tour on my GPO’s and they are phenomenal for that, ski pretty much every bc condition really well. When it gets super wind blown/icy crust on the climb I feel like a little more camber and edge contact length would be nice (but hey that’s what crampons are for), but that’s literally my only complaint. I couldn’t ask for a better ski on the downhill. My sister has a pair of the 165’s for resort POW and loves them so much she pulls em out anytime it’s soft at all. I think they’re perfect for what you’re describing.
    Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!

  19. #369
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    Dec 2014
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    I'm thinkin' GPO or BC - the latter of which I haven't skied, so take that into account.

    BTW, I've repurposed my GPOs for pow touring (Colorado snow) and absolutely LOVE them.


    ... Thom

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  20. #370
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    Sep 2010
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    SW CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    Not sure about the Protest though. Looks like no sidecut at all. I'm sure it is awesome pow ski, but just too much powder specific. That's one of the reasons for changing JJs, something more versatile needed. We usually chase snowstorms in our trips so resort conditions are chopped pow/soft bumps. When resort gets tracked out we just go out and tour.
    163 Protest has more sidecut than the other lengths, at 25m radius. Which is exactly the same turn radius as the 169 RX. It's also 119 underfoot, essentially a -10 regular protest. So your girl could be really stoked on them, or they might actually ski too short with that much rocker and taper. My wife is about the size of your gf and skis a 17X length for everything except UL spring touring -- I know that the 163 Protest would be absurdly short for her...but obviously she's not your gf.

    Also: I don't think the experience of dudes reviewing the longer models necessarily generalizes down to the shorter lengths. In the 165 length, the GPO has a pretty tight turn radius and lots of rocker/taper for the length -- the same things we guys typically bash the JJ for. I don't know anyone who's skied the 165 GPO and 165 VJJ, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were more similar than different. Unlike the big difference between the 187 GPO and 185 JJ.

    So to me, the 169 RX seems like the best choice. Because it has the same rocker and taper as the big boy skis, it should be quite a bit more pow specific than the longer lengths while retaining most of the versatility the the RX is known for.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 01-25-2019 at 01:11 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  21. #371
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Also: I don't think the experience of dudes reviewing the longer models necessarily generalizes down to the shorter lengths. In the 165 length, the GPO has a pretty tight turn radius and lots of rocker/taper for the length -- the same things we guys typically bash the JJ for. I don't know anyone who's skied the 165 GPO and 165 VJJ, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were more similar than different. Unlike the big difference between the 187 GPO and 185 JJ.
    Good points.

    Still think the GPO is worth considering. My impression from the OP was that Mrs liked the playfulness of the JJ just wanted to size down and increase stability. For me the biggest problem with the JJ was super abrupt hinge point just past the front binding. It would fold in any type of crud, and cause one to go over the bars and eat shit. The GPO would definately fix that, while retaining a lot of the playfulness of the JJ.

    But as you point out its a bit of spreadsheet hypothesizing.

  22. #372
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    Nov 2003
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    Vallee Teton
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    169 RX will ski longer than 165 GPO (duh) and maybe longer than 175 JJ?

    That's my only caution to you.

    GPO is a great ski, very versatile and intuitive.

    I have it in a 182 for resort skiing with carbon layup, and a 175 UL for touring.
    Aggressive in my own mind

  23. #373
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    Jan 2013
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    Bodenseekreis
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    920
    For anybody looking for a wider, kinda neutral, carveable, driveable resort ski, I'd just wanna give a hint towards the fat (+10 mm) BC's. I've gotten my MAA 191's on snow now, but not yet in enough conditions to support a full review. But fwiw, mounted at -1 from dimple they're pretty much plug and play in resort low tide conditions. Enough tail to end a carved turn with some energy. Carve and slip into slarve is easy peasy. Short skidded turns were a breeze without any detuning. Pretty straightforward skis I'd say, no surprises.

    MAA+nylon is not titanal and rubber damp, but still quiet enough to haul a$$ on. This far they match my ideas of the lightly tail rockered Sevun III that Black Crows never built. To be continued...

  24. #374
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    Mar 2007
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    Nice! I figured the +10 BC would be one of the easiest skis to drive in any kind of pow conditions!
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  25. #375
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    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    ... Also: I don't think the experience of dudes reviewing the longer models necessarily generalizes down to the shorter lengths. In the 165 length, the GPO has a pretty tight turn radius and lots of rocker/taper for the length -- the same things we guys typically bash the JJ for. I don't know anyone who's skied the 165 GPO and 165 VJJ, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were more similar than different. Unlike the big difference between the 187 GPO and 185 JJ.
    Excellent point about downward scalability.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

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