2018-19 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

[SupreChicken]

Been contemplating some stock options as a daily driver. I have some Kartel 108s in a 181 but they ski just a bit shorter than I would like. Great in trees or if I unfortunately end in moguls, but a little short elsewhere.

Freeride looks a little more traditional, The Ski has a tighter radius than I typically like, so contemplating an MVP in a 187. Would that be similar to the Kartel other than longer? I want to use up my loyalty points.

I would keep the Kartel probably since it's on the 3rd mount which is now the original metal mount plate for a Rottefella NTN Freeride that not many skiers are on these days. (ie would sell cheap so may as well hang onto).

If you’re riding switch or park at all, kartel is the better choice than the mvp.

The more subtle rocker lines of the mvp give it a little more stability. It will lay serious tracks. Ski rips. Nimble in bumps. Nice size radius.

187 mvp will be ever so slightly longer than the 181 kartel.

I think you’d love the 187 mvp. Definitely get the heavy hitter core.

[eskido]

Mind blown no one’s picking up those Concepts at that price

[sruffian]

Thanks funky yeah I’m always timely. Feel stupid for never having picked up customs in the spring. Oh well hopefully on to better things


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[Muggydude]

Mind blown no one’s picking up those Concepts at that price

Sister-in-law snagged a pair of 177s, she’s stoked. Graphic is sweet too, I actually got that one on my veneer piste jibs. Still waiting to see how they turned out

I regret selling my concepts, one of the few skis I do.

[eskido]

fuck yeah! Hope she LOVES em!!!

[galibier_numero_un]

Recent Praxis events have been painful to everything except my checking account ;-)

[3PinGrin]

If you’re riding switch or park at all, kartel is the better choice than the mvp.

The more subtle rocker lines of the mvp give it a little more stability. It will lay serious tracks. Ski rips. Nimble in bumps. Nice size radius.

187 mvp will be ever so slightly longer than the 181 kartel.

I think you’d love the 187 mvp. Definitely get the heavy hitter core.

I haven't tried switch for many years, and definitely no interest in that or park these days. From your description, the MVP should be perfect for what I am looking for which is something a little more directional than the Kartel but still fun. Don't get me wrong though, I have had a lot of fun on the Kartels, especially in the trees.

Forgot to add: Heavy hitter w/carbon + veneer would have been my choice, but not an option now obviously. Stock is #4 flex with maple/ash/aspen. I contemplated the Freeride which is stock heavy hitter, but really wanted something with a little more tail rocker.

[3PinGrin]

These showed up the other day.
180 BC, #3 flex, maple veneer, maple/ash/aspen + carbon (primary touring ski)
187 MVP, stock, #4 flex (daily driver at the lift)

Any reason to not mount boot center on the line? BC will be my first A/T setup, MVP will be my daily drive with 22 Designs Outlaw X.

[SchralphMacchio]

That BC is going to ski a LOT smaller than the MVP. It’s only got something like 115cm of camber contact, and the dual radius tip splay makes the front feel really short and only elongate as the ski gets into softer deeper snow and as the skis are leaned over more and more.

The BC seems to have a large mounting sweet spot in my opinion and the old mount point was like -3cm from the current one, IIRC. I’m currently skiing on the old mount point, because my skis are 8 years old. Probably mounting on the line makes the ski a bit faster edge to edge, but you can get more float and more of a classic stance mounting anywhere close to -2cm off it. Not to mention easy kick turns because the tail will be short.

Don’t forget these ever important Praxis instructions: detune, detune, and detune some more. On both skis. Start with the tip through the taper/reverse sidecut section and then tail through reverse sidecut section and stop at the widest points. You can literally use a file at 45 degrees on that thing, I used a dremel and got it pretty damn rounded. Then go ski it on groomers and moguls, with a soft file, hard stone, and gummi stone in pocket, and softly tune back from the tip and tail contact points as needed based on how the ski feels vs how you like it to engage and release. Everyone likes a different feel - me, I liked to keep the tips with sharp side cut almost all the way up to the widest point (barely soften like only 1cm back) and a much more aggressive detune about 3+ cm forward from the widest point on the tails. It just really prevents unintended snow grabbing the skis and helps release the tail while keeping the ski precise and snappy on turn in. Praxis are known for shipping razor sharp, high hardness edges, all the way around the ski, which makes it absolutely terrifying to ski out of the box but then a “cold dead hands” setup once you’ve dialed the tune.

[SchralphMacchio]

More thoughts for you 3pin,

I don’t want to scare you about the 180 BC’s feeling “too small” - the #3 flex and veneer will help keep the ski stable, as the BC’s core profile is pretty progressive from the softish tip up to the forefoot where it’s pretty stiff. (Very playful ski though, one of the most playful ones Keith makes, loves jumping out of the snow and back in again)

My pair of 180’s is an old beat up Flex 2 carbon layup and Ptex topsheet, soft and playful but stable enough for me at 5’ 8” 135 lbs naked but like 165+ lbs with gear ( seems like a lot but once you add up the 10 lbs boots, 5 lbs of clothes, 40L airbag pack, 30m rope and rescue gear, water and food, etc).

I have 182 GPOs in Flex 3 and it’s about as much ski as I can handle inbounds.

[3PinGrin]

Thanks for the input SchralphMacchio,
I'm not worried about length on the BC, I don't buy into the longer is better mentality so predominant on TGR. Happily skied BD Route 105 in a 175cm last year and my 182 Quixotes feel perfect. I detuned them lightly but nothing too heavy handed, may need to revisit that because I did have a tip wander quickly a couple of times on cat tracks last year. Good info on the historic mount point for the BC.

I did remember that I mounted my ex-wifes BCs on the line and she was ripping powder better than ever last year so will probably just go boot center on that ski, but still giving it some thought whether to go a bit back. I have usually preferred a more forward mount on my tele bindings than many freeheelers and usually match the alpine boot center line. But these will be mounted with an A/T binding, so new territory for me. Surprisingly, the camber contact on the 180 BC (110cm) is actually longer than the 187 MVP (99cm)!

I found several instances on the forums of people being happy with boot center on the line with the MVP too so probably just mount there for this ski as well unless someone chimes in otherwise.

[SchralphMacchio]

Yeah but the MVP has a stiffer continuous flex from underfoot through the tip and tail while the BC is a touch more clown shoe shaped and in flex, so the 187 MVP will ski much larger than the 180 BC despite less camber contact. Not to mention more swing weight. But now I see you’re familiar with the BC’s shape firsthand, and the MVP being tele is a totally different story so I didn’t consider that. Both will be very fun setups!

What AT binding you gonna use?


Also, totally unrelated drift, last winter I built my first waxless setup with 178 Rossi BC125’s with Voile hardwire 3-pin and Alico leather guide boots. First run on FS roads last season without the hardwire cables flipped up was scary and left me with sore ankles! This season my goal is to be stable with or without the cables, with my 23 lbs 1 year old daughter on my back!!! Hopefully the years of splitboard-skiing in strap bindings and soft slowboard boots pays off ... or my hopefully daughter likes falling into the snow!

[3PinGrin]

Yeah but the MVP has a stiffer continuous flex from underfoot through the tip and tail while the BC is a touch more clown shoe shaped and in flex, so the 187 MVP will ski much larger than the 180 BC despite less camber contact. Not to mention more swing weight. But now I see you’re familiar with the BC’s shape firsthand, and the MVP being tele is a totally different story so I didn’t consider that. Both will be very fun setups!

What AT binding you gonna use?


Also, totally unrelated drift, last winter I built my first waxless setup with 178 Rossi BC125’s with Voile hardwire 3-pin and Alico leather guide boots. First run on FS roads last season without the hardwire cables flipped up was scary and left me with sore ankles! This season my goal is to be stable with or without the cables, with my 23 lbs 1 year old daughter on my back!!! Hopefully the years of splitboard-skiing in strap bindings and soft slowboard boots pays off ... or my hopefully daughter likes falling into the snow!

I will be installing a Salomon MTN binding and boots are the Scarpa Maestrale (orange, like my avatar, ha). So glad you are going to be getting out with your daughter, careful on those falls though, that's a lot of height for a young noggin crashing down! I would forgo the cable on those bindings for leather boots. My oldest did her first yurt trip when she was 5, I hauled her in using a homemade plastic toboggan/harness setup. She was just getting into her own xc skis when she ended up moving to southern Utah with her mom post-divorce. So she and her younger sister turned into desert rats, which was great (lot's of hiking/camping in Zion National Park area) but they lost interest in winter stuff after that

I wouldn't give up seeing them scramble around on sandstone, playing in rivers, and becoming great swimmers for anything though.

[SchralphMacchio]

Not to mention MTB capital of the Southwest! And who knows maybe they’ll start digging Brionhead skiing one day ...

Great advice thanks, I’ll be sure to have her wear her teddy bear bike helmet over her beanie! The Osprey Poco pack is also a pretty sturdy frame for falling on my side, and the pop up sunshade might actually soak up 0.1% of any impact forces

[3PinGrin]

Not to mention MTB capital of the Southwest! And who knows maybe they’ll start digging Brionhead skiing one day ...

Nice pic! Yes, spectacular mountain biking. I was hitting Gooseberry back before it was on many people's radar.

Tried the Brianhead thing but no interest, they are both grown and in their 20s now. Better than Brianhead is the phenomenal BC opportunities in the Tushar Range north of there. Lots of great terrain, not many people. There is also the Eagle Point ski area in the Tushars (used to be Elk Meadows and sat vacant for several years). Fun hiking/skiing those runs before Eagle Point took over.

[pfluffenmeister]

Kusala repress would be an awesome follow-up project.

I’d probably buy that...

In for kusala


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YES

4 x Kusala

Mmmmm Kusalas, I could get behind that. Always really wanted a pair of those

Kusala is a grown up renegade and fixes the faults. Killer shape and so quick


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Well said, whyturn.
I would absolutely dig doing a new Kusala with Keith. And it fits far better with his build/shape philosophy than a lot of the shapes I built. I wasn't all that stoked with the 191 Lhasa Fats because the design was made to carve and last years iteration of the ski was made to slarve, something that didn't jive with me, as I was out killing trash snow, grooms and pow on some pure carbon 191s that just fukking killed everything on the carve and they'd slarve when they needed to. It was a detailed build with a certain point at which the tip rose that made it engage into the carve that we missed last year with the mods that were made. Sure, it crushed shit right and left, no doubt, but it didn't have the tip pressure reaction that was integral in the original (and constantly modified to perfection) design. But that's just me.

That said, the Kusala is a Praxis-friendly design that would work right out the box. Keith loves the reverse camber powder ski designs he makes and the Kusala would be a new dimension of that for him. It'd be a very popular ski. We couldn't make enough before we shut the doors at PM Gear.

This Kusala talk is stirring

Quite stirring.

Beuller?

[eskido]

I’m still pretty bummed I didn’t get in on the Lhasa deal, but in all honesty it didn’t quit stir my insides enough to drop that kind of coin (still really really jealous for sure). But the Kusala absolutely does, that thing gets made I’m all in, and to boot I get to support my all time favorite cosmic genius master of skis maker that might just really need a some support right now... fuck yes I’m in. Just make sure it meets mag standards, pretty please

[Muggydude]

https://www.praxisskis.com/experimental-skis/

Sounds pretty cool. Would love to see a kusala-renegade type ski come out of this

[nickel]

This is very cool indeed. I'd like to see something even more pintail than the lhasa as well as some new touring shapes. The current ones are very versatile but the removal of the custom options mean you can't just turn every ski into a touring build which was super attractive for me personally.

[skibrd]

https://www.praxisskis.com/experimental-skis/

Sounds pretty cool. Would love to see a kusala-renegade type ski come out of this

So the TGR model of build something crazy for us is on? I think? 194 RX? All Rocker Super Freerides? Those would get me interested.


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[Muggydude]

Only need 6 people for a design

[skizix]

Recent Praxis events have been painful to everything except my checking account ;-)

Sorry if this has been answered already (couldn't read the whole thread - got a life and all), but what are said recent events? All I know is: no custom sale this coming spring. Which is a minor bummer. But are prospects grim for praxis, or...what gives?

Would hate to see anything bad happen - Keith & co. seem like awesome folks, and pretty sure I'd buy another pair or more.

[Muggydude]

Basically Praxis is no longer doing custom skis/ski sale and liquidating their current inventory. Future is uncertain for the company but I think the experimental ski concept being introduced is a good sign.


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[skibrd]

Basically Praxis is no longer doing custom skis/ski sale and liquidating their current inventory. Future is uncertain for the company but I think the experimental ski concept being introduced is a good sign.


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It has to be hard to have a direct to consumer sales model in the skiing industry. How many people buy what has a shiny sticker from some BS ski review on it that’s on the wall at a ski shop?

Then again I never really saw new Praxis skis for sale for cheap at the end of the season, so maybe it was working, but Keith wants to change it up?

It’s cool to see the Praxis guys sticking to their ethos as a company and not caving to what will make the most money.


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[YaBoyBlue]

These showed up the other day.
180 BC, #3 flex, maple veneer, maple/ash/aspen + carbon (primary touring ski)
187 MVP, stock, #4 flex (daily driver at the lift)

Any reason to not mount boot center on the line? BC will be my first A/T setup, MVP will be my daily drive with 22 Designs Outlaw X.

Not sure how the Tele will translate, but I found my stock 187 MVPs to ski very short *in the front* (that 99cm camber length!) so I bumped back to -1cm mount point and was happy: was good enough for icy opening hour, and still killed anything soft off piste.

As a good comparison for you, I found the 187 MVP front engagement point to be closer to boot when compared to my 188 Quixote, and so the MVP felt much more pivoty and loose in the front then the Q. If you nerd out a bit (duh...) the outside of the MVP and Q are the same for taper point dimensions, so there was a bit of family resemblance when I jumped up to the Q.