2018-19 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

[Cars Suck]

I have first year GPO's in a 182 with medium flex (I think that's a 3 now), and I don't find the skis very exacting.

Haven't had the stiff tail experience.

MAP with carbon

I would like to try a heavy hitter core or enduro core without carbon.

I also have the first year GPO in almost the same build (no carb, Med+ /3+ flex) and have never once get it was a demanding, switched on ski. Not sure if it’s just skiing style and stance as GPOs to me are just so easy and fun to ski.

I would have never thought to put them in “Ass kicking ski” category.

Maybe it’s the build?

[abraham]

I think the gpo just isn't that demanding a design. I have a pair from 13 in a just below stiff flex. I think that's 4+ now? Mine are mounted -1 from the line and they just work.

I'm currently tossing around the idea of a UL veneer FRS in a 188 as a shorter more playful ski for touring and some inbounds use. I haven't decided about sending an email to Keith yet.

[galibier_numero_un]

I think the gpo just isn't that demanding a design. I have a pair from 13 in a just below stiff flex. I think that's 4+ now? Mine are mounted -1 from the line and they just work.

I'm currently tossing around the idea of a UL veneer FRS in a 188 as a shorter more playful ski for touring and some inbounds use. I haven't decided about sending an email to Keith yet.

Dollars to donuts these folks haven't detuned their GPOs sufficiently.

As I write this, it occurs to me that detune is an inappropriate term, implying somehow that the ski is indeed an unmanageable beast.

Maybe "sufficiently dulled to the contact points, and not merely with a gummy" is a phrase I should adopt (more typing involved, but I'm up to it)?

... Thom

[Kopi_Red]

I think the gpo just isn't that demanding a design. Mine are mounted -1 from the line and they just work.

I agree. GPO’s aren’t hard to ski. They do whatever you ask of them. I consider them a great jack of all traits ski.

[powder_to_the_people]

Dollars to donuts these folks haven't detuned their GPOs sufficiently.

As I write this, it occurs to me that detune is an inappropriate term, implying somehow that the ski is indeed an unmanageable beast.

Maybe "sufficiently dulled to the contact points, and not merely with a gummy" is a phrase I should adopt (more typing involved, but I'm up to it)?

... Thom

Alright then, seems like I'm the only one having issues. I'm going to give them another good detune and see how they (I) do on the upcoming weekend's slush fest.

Just to clarify, do you determine the contact point by just putting the ski on a flat surface and looking at the place where the tip and tail naturally rise off the ground? Or do you apply pressure on the ski in the boot area (as if you were stepping in) until it's decambered and look at where the tip and tail rise off the ground? The latter method would move the "contact points" closer to the boot, meaning I'd have to dull a larger portion of the edges than I've been doing up until now.

[Quandary]

My personal preference is to do a more serious detune from contact point towards tip and tail, the feather back to contact point when flat for a soft snow ski.

[galibier_numero_un]

Alright then, seems like I'm the only one having issues. I'm going to give them another good detune and see how they (I) do on the upcoming weekend's slush fest.

Just to clarify, do you determine the contact point by just putting the ski on a flat surface and looking at the place where the tip and tail naturally rise off the ground? Or do you apply pressure on the ski in the boot area (as if you were stepping in) until it's decambered and look at where the tip and tail rise off the ground? The latter method would move the "contact points" closer to the boot, meaning I'd have to dull a larger portion of the edges than I've been doing up until now.

Good question, and I'll wait for others to clarify/correct me. I dull go to the point where tip & tail tapers end: put the ski on its side (counter top works nicely) so the edge is contacting the counter top.

Slide a piece of paper to find the two points. It occurs to me that you can use the published tip and tail taper numbers (34cm tip and 20cm tail).

Most of us find that heavily rounding with a mill bastard file works nicely. Begin to feather about 3-4" from the contact points, so that the edge is "only" dulled by the time you reach the contact points (dull, meaning what you might do with a diamond stone or a very light pass with a file).

My first two hours on them with the "stock" tune (in chalky snow) had me scratching my head as to what the fuss was all about. I had easy access to the shop at the bottom of the hill (dummy me ... I didn't pack a file in the car), and I borrowed a shop rat's files (tipped him $5.00). The rest of the day (detuned) was great.

Maybe you still won't like them, but it won't be because they're twitchy.

... Thom

[grinch]

^^exactly. The taper isnt meant to be carved on so i hit them pretty hard with the file then feather that into the useful carving edge. I find it gives a noce predictable transition into edging the ski

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[Duffman]

My GPOs were so damn grabby in windjacked snow until filing the tapered tips aggressively. The Q a few years later didn't have this issue.

[SchralphMacchio]

I’m really curious to hear Keith’s thoughts on detuning - as, like you other folks I’d arrived at similar philosophy through trial error and my own sensibilities.

Since I prefer fast turn engagement up front and easy release in the rear (and I’m not too snobby to care if I’m skidding most of my turns as a result) this has been my process, and I haven’t found any detriment to it for my purposes, but I’m also not a charger or racer, just a backseat skier in too-stiff-for-me boots who likes to have as much fun off piste as possible regardless of snow conditions and coverage:
-From widest point (regardless of camber contact) toward tip and tail I’m completely rounding the edge off with a dremel by making multiple passes to transform the edge into a radius - although from about 2cm in front of/behind the widest point I’m feathering this process so that at the actual widest point the edge is still true, just dull
-For the tip I make one gentle pass with a coarse stone from the widest point to about 2cm into the sidecut, then a few passes with the gummi - my goal being to have a true edge that is fast to hook up when I pressure it but otherwise not on autopilot
-For the tail I’m more aggressive, using one gentle pass with a metal file (adding an invisible/soft chamfer that sort of transitions from the rounded edge to the square edge), several passes with the coarse stone, and then a few more with the gummi to about 4cm from the widest point to inside the sidecut - again all feathering so that the transition from factory sharp to true but dull at the widest point then round at the taper is all very smooth and seamless
-then I put a compact file and the 2 stones into a small pouch and ski with them on as crappy 3D snow as I can find, adjusting as necessary ... I found the last couple of times I nailed the process on the bench and didn’t have to adjust in the field once (which also invites the possibility that I overdid it on the bench, but had that been the case I would have also found myself complaining about things being too loose or unable to bite, and I haven’t had that problem yet).

Note that when I’m doing this I’m less concerned about the camber contact points, mostly because where I live it’s the variable thick stuff and odd mix of crusts that hooks up most with the ski at the taper sections. If I find the ski isn’t drifty enough for me I think I’d have to evaluate whether it’s more sensible to change the base bevel at the rocker zones than to increase the aggressiveness of the detune process above ... but I haven’t had to make that choice so far.

Anyways - like I said really curious to hear Keith’s thoughts about detuning off piste skis in particular.

[galibier_numero_un]

I've often pondered a variable base edge bevel as well (not side), but not enough to try it.

... Thom

[SchralphMacchio]

I've often pondered a variable base edge bevel as well (not side), but not enough to try it.

... Thom

In the Blizzard thread, wasatchback (not sure his official role with them) mentioned that their machines had a hard time dialing in the base bevel at the rockered zones of the skis, and recommended hand tuning the bevel there for anyone who found the tip/tail behaved less predictably/smoothly in 3D snow ...

That statement does leave me to think about a concept where the reverse sidecut zones are rounded edges, the rockered zone inside the sidecut has a heavier base bevel but a true edge (like 2 or 1.5?), and then the contact zones have a lower base bevel (like 1). I don’t have time for such experimentation though, Thom please report back next winter

[galibier_numero_un]

In the Blizzard thread, wasatchback (not sure his official role with them) mentioned that their machines had a hard time dialing in the base bevel at the rockered zones of the skis, and recommended hand tuning the bevel there for anyone who found the tip/tail behaved less predictably/smoothly in 3D snow ...

That statement does leave me to think about a concept where the reverse sidecut zones are rounded edges, the rockered zone inside the sidecut has a heavier base bevel but a true edge (like 2 or 1.5?), and then the contact zones have a lower base bevel (like 1). I don’t have time for such experimentation though, Thom please report back next winter

Damn! You did have to throw down the gauntlet now, didn't you ;-)

... Thom

[0g]

Anybody ski the FRD's??

Trying to decide what to buy for this year's custom sale. Thinking I'm going veneer FRS. Convince me otherwise...

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[Power_Sauce]

Backcountry is now available in a 185!? Nice!


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[lucknau]

I’m in the cue for a 192cm GPO.
#4 flex, heavy hitter with carbon.
Maple veneer with the original purple octopus design.

Man... Well this is my first spring sale and it just dawned on me that it’s going to be a long summer of anticipation. Heh.


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[macon]

The og purple octopus is the coolest GPO topsheet by a mile, love that one

[undertow2]

The og purple octopus is the coolest GPO topsheet by a mile, love that one

Posted these before but do you mean these...:



Will never part with these beauts...!


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[macon]

1000% yes those are so slick

[N1CK.]

I'll throw up mine, inspired by Undertow's

[undertow2]

I'll throw up mine, inspired by Undertow's

Holy shit you trumped me - those are total money... Wood top sheet was not an option and would love a do over... Nicely done...


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[PeachesNCream]

I'll get in on the octopus party


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[hoarhey]

Octopus gathering

Baldy Knoll

[plugboots]

Custom Le Petits w/ GPO top sheet for mini-plug:


I need a 105ish underfoot ski and am thinking of a skinny GPO.

[hoarhey]

that skinny GPO has been on my mind for some time as well...