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  1. #1101
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
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    2,687
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    I've got the same, but different. Really digging those new octopus graphics. Any tips for skiing mvps? I've had them out one day and they felt pretty planky and more work in the trees than I was expecting

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Tip them over more. They respond well to high edge angles. They don’t swivel as readily as a GPO.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  2. #1102
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    3,191
    Praxis is having a 50% off sale through the 21st.. options are low but good deals to be had.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  3. #1103
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
    Posts
    12,574
    How does an MVP ski compared to a Quixote? I have two days on 188 Flex 4 Quixotes. Really love how turny/pivoty they are, but can also charge if you really lean into them.

    I need an everyday/low tide/bump/groomers/shorter ski. There is a mag selling 183 MVPs in 3.5 flex. I REALLY don't need to buy more skis. But I am a crack head.

  4. #1104
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    4
    The MVP is my favorite ski iv been on for a few years. They are mounted with dynafits and I ski with dynafit tlt5's so they aren't a handful at all. I mounted mine closer to core center though and love it. Before I had them mounted at recommended with sth16's and also thought they were great. I do think they ski a bit quicker edge to edge closer to core center. They are my everyday skis. Before that I had 179 bros mounted more center as well.

  5. #1105
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    747
    Anyone have any thoughts or comparisons between MVP and woodsman 108? Pretty similar on paper and I'm guessing on snow.
    Common sense. So rare today in America it's almost like having a superpower.

  6. #1106
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    in the trench
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    10,132
    Guessing splay would be the major difference. Mvp might be more precise vs woodsman gives less f's. New mvp might be getting to kartel territory. Idk just guessing. I want both

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

  7. #1107
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    747
    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Guessing splay would be the major difference. Mvp might be more precise vs woodsman gives less f's. New mvp might be getting to kartel territory. Idk just guessing. I want both

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app
    Hopefully not that much pronounced rocker (kartel) on the new mvp! I think/hope it will be more subtle. I will go back and watch the podium shots of Tabke i recall some profile views of at least the tip rise. Not sure if he posted profile shots on his IG or just topsheets.
    Common sense. So rare today in America it's almost like having a superpower.

  8. #1108
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    in the trench
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    10,132
    Quote Originally Posted by steveski View Post
    Hopefully not that much pronounced rocker (kartel) on the new mvp! I think/hope it will be more subtle. I will go back and watch the podium shots of Tabke i recall some profile views of at least the tip rise. Not sure if he posted profile shots on his IG or just topsheets.
    Im curious as well. Id be at -1 , same as my piste jibs, and i wouldnt want it any more centered. On the dimple would be fin but too much rocker and splay in the tail might push the mount more forward. Not my jam

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

  9. #1109
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    354
    With so many available great options for fatter skis, there is still room for more, right?!

    I just wanna add some thoughts about these after getting some time i bigger terrain on them. Currently in the Arlberg region. They're the fat (+10) BC's I got through Keith's half off custom offer the other year. Thinking if the custom offer returns, somebody else might be looking for something similar. Mine are 191 at #4 flex, MAA enduro core, nylon topsheet obviously. Mounted TC-9 (dimple -1)

    Basically, it's just a nice, neutral, wide ski with quite good edge authority, even on really hard snow. The relatively short tail rocker renders a useful and supportive back end of these skis. They are still easy to flick with the slightest unweighting. I have my edges rounded on the tapered/rockered portions, the rest are praxis sharp. They shine when driven in a neutral stance with just the slightest shin pressure. Moderation between carve/slarve is a breeze. Especially going back into carve after a feathered turn. Deep angle carves are rewarded by a healthy dose of rebound.

    In pow they ski pretty much as on hardpack, I hardly shift skiing style because of 3d snow. They run on a shallow angle of attack, again, light shin pressure only. Wide tips, longish (unrockered portion of the) tail and limited tip to tail taper are the main ingredients for this course.

    They do carry a certain high pitched sound on really hard snow, something veneer would probably tone down. But it does not bother me because of their overall behaviour. Had they been the exact same shape, but built in an og Bodacious layup, I'd say they'd probably be my unicorns. But they sure are close enough for a soft conditions resort ski.

    If you're the type of skier who wants to sink the tails in pow and have the tips above the surface no matter what, or wanna go sideways with the flick of the pinkie toes, then I guess these are not for you. But if you're not, well, here's another option for ya, definately keepers for me!

    Skickat från min SM-A520F via Tapatalk

  10. #1110
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    at work
    Posts
    1,006
    Quote Originally Posted by steveski View Post
    Hopefully not that much pronounced rocker (kartel) on the new mvp! I think/hope it will be more subtle. I will go back and watch the podium shots of Tabke i recall some profile views of at least the tip rise. Not sure if he posted profile shots on his IG or just topsheets.
    FWIW- post #1057 gives you an idea of what Keith is thinking/ similar to the Tabke MVP+ from the podium finish.
    "What moves men of genius, or rather what inspires their work, is not new ideas, but their obsession with the idea that what has already been said is still not enough."

    -Eugene Delacroix

  11. #1111
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    747
    Love those topsheets. My wife has it on her Le petit and it's a favorite!
    Common sense. So rare today in America it's almost like having a superpower.

  12. #1112
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    747
    Yes that's right. Thanks
    Common sense. So rare today in America it's almost like having a superpower.

  13. #1113
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,588
    Quote Originally Posted by SoooL View Post
    With so many available great options for fatter skis, there is still room for more, right?!

    I just wanna add some thoughts about these after getting some time i bigger terrain on them. Currently in the Arlberg region. They're the fat (+10) BC's I got through Keith's half off custom offer the other year. Thinking if the custom offer returns, somebody else might be looking for something similar. Mine are 191 at #4 flex, MAA enduro core, nylon topsheet obviously. Mounted TC-9 (dimple -1)

    Basically, it's just a nice, neutral, wide ski with quite good edge authority, even on really hard snow. The relatively short tail rocker renders a useful and supportive back end of these skis. They are still easy to flick with the slightest unweighting. I have my edges rounded on the tapered/rockered portions, the rest are praxis sharp. They shine when driven in a neutral stance with just the slightest shin pressure. Moderation between carve/slarve is a breeze. Especially going back into carve after a feathered turn. Deep angle carves are rewarded by a healthy dose of rebound.

    In pow they ski pretty much as on hardpack, I hardly shift skiing style because of 3d snow. They run on a shallow angle of attack, again, light shin pressure only. Wide tips, longish (unrockered portion of the) tail and limited tip to tail taper are the main ingredients for this course.

    They do carry a certain high pitched sound on really hard snow, something veneer would probably tone down. But it does not bother me because of their overall behaviour. Had they been the exact same shape, but built in an og Bodacious layup, I'd say they'd probably be my unicorns. But they sure are close enough for a soft conditions resort ski.

    If you're the type of skier who wants to sink the tails in pow and have the tips above the surface no matter what, or wanna go sideways with the flick of the pinkie toes, then I guess these are not for you. But if you're not, well, here's another option for ya, definately keepers for me!

    Skickat från min SM-A520F via Tapatalk
    Our of curiosity, what led you to taking a chance on a +10 BC over a GPO?


    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  14. #1114
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    354
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Our of curiosity, what led you to taking a chance on a +10 BC over a GPO?


    ... Thom
    Primarily less tip to tail taper and the BC's straighter tip shape vs GPO's tapered tip. Grew fond of that tip shape from the Black Crows Sevun II. Basically wanted something close to the Sevuns with a bit less sidecut and more tail releasability.

    Skickat från min SM-A520F via Tapatalk

  15. #1115
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    in the trench
    Posts
    10,132
    They do look great. Id consider a pair of those

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

  16. #1116
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    354
    Quote Originally Posted by steveski View Post
    Love those topsheets. My wife has it on her Le petit and it's a favorite!
    Agreed, they came out nice. Yeah, chicks seem to dig them, have gotten some positive comments. As long as that's so, I don't care what blokes think!

  17. #1117
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    3,588
    Quote Originally Posted by SoooL View Post
    Primarily less tip to tail taper and the BC's straighter tip shape vs GPO's tapered tip. Grew fond of that tip shape from the Black Crows Sevun II. Basically wanted something close to the Sevuns with a bit less sidecut and more tail releasability.

    Skickat från min SM-A520F via Tapatalk
    Thanks! I seem to recall that the BC was considered a narrow GPO, although a statement like this is open to interpretation.

    It makes sense that you used that Black Crows as a baseline for what you were after.

    It sounds as if you got the ski you expected. Good on ya ;-)

    After several misfires (ordering standard models with no opportunity to demo), I'm always curious about the thought process in going +10 or -10: how someone gets the nerve to pull the trigger.

    For the record (I've never compared the two on paper or on snow):

    GPO (182): 140-116-128
    BC (180): 131-106-121

    (2mm difference in tip to tail taper).

    Sidecut length: 128 (GPO) vs. 133 (BC).

    Tip taper: GPO - 34 vs. BC - 30

    Tail taper: GPI - 20 vs. BC - 17

    I know this doesn't tell the whole story (camber contact differs by quite a bit - 18 cm, along with 10cm more tip rocker for the GPO, as well as other differences).

    I think I'm talking myself into a BC (along with 3 or 4 other models) :-)

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  18. #1118
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    354
    So Thom, you can't read a book by its cover or numbers only. If you want a looser tail and a quick tip, go GPO. If you like more tail support and dont mind a mellow tip that might need more operator input, go BC. I dont mind being in charge of my skis and work them where needed, hence BC ftw!

  19. #1119
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,588
    Quote Originally Posted by SoooL View Post
    So Thom, you can't read a book by its cover or numbers only. If you want a looser tail and a quick tip, go GPO. If you like more tail support and dont mind a mellow tip that might need more operator input, go BC. I dont mind being in charge of my skis and work them where needed, hence BC ftw!
    Agreed (need to have lots of design/prototyping experience to have a clue as how the numbers translate on the hill).

    Your fat BC sounds almost like my musings about a Q without asym - with perhaps an effective edge length that splits the difference between the Q's long and short edges. I could also just learn how to ski, but where's the fun in that
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 02-19-2020 at 02:47 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  20. #1120
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    354
    Adding some unedited Fat BC stoke from yesterday to back up my above description. Junior with the followcam is a newly converted snowboarder, so he's excused for not following close all the way. Slow start from standstill though.

    Boot deep to knee deep in places, wonderful day in St Anton when it cleared after the snowfall, massive areas still got tracked out pretty soon.

    https://youtu.be/zz9gazuRgNQ

  21. #1121
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    4,911
    Alright, so I now have 55k' of earned turns on my Wootests, and here's my review. TL;DR outstanding quiver ski, not a quiver-of-one.

    They are 179cm, 3 flex, UL/carbon, maple veneer and weigh about 1650g/ski. Mounted on the line with ATK Trofeo (BD Helio 145) with 10 RV, skiing with the o.g. yellow Fischer Carbon Travers boots. I've only taken them touring, obviously no resort use for this setup. Terrain skied goes from meadow skipping to glades to couloirs up to 40º+, conditions go from truly bottomless 3' pow to regular Wasatch blower to settled pow to mank to breakable crust to firm, most of the gamut except no heavy wet slop yet. I have also detuned the FUCK out of the entire skis, they're nearly dull enough to be a kid's toy.

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    In 3d snow these kill it. It doesn't take much for them to float up, 2-3" is enough, and it's trivial to make big fast sweeping turns or small powder-farmer style turns. Dumping speed is no problem, and despite hand flexing pretty stiff by my standards, they aren't too much in tight places like narrow hiking trail exits, trees or chutes. Given the extra 1lb/ski over my regular powder touring skis I expected to use these sparingly, but these have really taken over, and 12 of the last 16 days I've picked them out. In suuuuuuper deep snow, as in 3' of unsettled blower, unsurprisingly it's still not enough ski (what would be?) but in all ordinary powder circumstances they're excellent and confidence-inspiring. In tracked out soft stuff they're also great, you can kinda just throw the ski into the mush and trust it not to deflect. The shape is really nice there. Basically, in the conditions that you would choose a ski like this, they are pretty close to a 10/10 in my book. I rapidly found myself skiing them more and more.

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    BUT then I found the downside...

    In 2d snow, they are real bad. In fact I hate them in 2d snow. I know it's not a 2d snow ski, so I can't really dock them any points for this, but they are very weird and NOT confidence inspiring. They're very easy to turn, so making jump-turn style turns in steep terrain is no problem, but it takes more work to get them on edge than I'd like and they wash out very easily, I think due to the relative similarity in tip/waist/tail widths? Maybe all the tail rocker? (this is the only ski I have with any appreciable tail rocker, I almost always go flat tail or "stealth rocker" or whatnot) Either way... I don't mind skiing them out packed out hiking trails / roads when those are the exits, but in real skiing terrain (chutes etc) with firm conditions these are NOT fun. Which kinda sucks, because if there's a crust I am not sure will be breakable or not, I am inclined not to take these because skiing 40º+ on firm chalk in a narrow rock-lined chute (that I expected to be softer) with them really sucked this morning. A descent that would not have raised my heart rate at all with my 1250g couloir skis required much more concentration and much less smiling than I am used to. These won't see a day of corn either... it's way too easy to catch the inside edge of your back ski. They're shaped such that in mellower 2d terrain the skis want to just run flat, and this is one of the weak points. I kinda think, maybe if I sharpened the edges I'd like them better in firm, but then this would likely also exacerbate the catchiness on flatter stuff as well so... I dunno. I can ski these harder and faster in chopped up powder than on a packed down road (that serves as an exit to my favorite zone and which I have skied literally hundreds of times and normally haul ass down), which feels weird.

    So anyway, I figured I'd ski these maybe 15 or 20 of ~125 days a year in the bc on one-and-done dawn patrols or super duper deep days only, and I am pleasantly surprised because it seems like these will see virtually every sub-10k' powder day henceforth, and maybe even a few 10k' powder days. I can ski them really hard/fast compared to even my inbounds skis, and they're really a lot of fun, especially in fresh powder (duh). They're also WAY more forgiving, due to both the shape and the mass, than my lighter skis in chopped up / weird 3d snow. But they're definitely not a one-ski touring quiver. If 2d is on the menu, I'm reaching for something else.

  22. #1122
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    747
    Just to clarify, are yours Woo 2.0 or original generation?
    Common sense. So rare today in America it's almost like having a superpower.

  23. #1123
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    SLC
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveski View Post
    Just to clarify, are yours Woo 2.0 or original generation?
    2.0, new this year

  24. #1124
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    412
    I would appreciate any help in understanding my skiing preferences. I haven't cared about what ski I've been on until the last 3 years and still trying to figure out what I like. I own a 193 veneer MVP and a 192 Protest. I know that these are vastly different skis but how I ski seems to be different between the two skis. I think the MVP is fine and I love it for technical terrain but the "fun factor" doesn't seem to be all that high. I notice myself being less motivated to hit side kickers/tree taps/all around playful skiing. When I'm on the protest it seems to be much more of that "fun factor"/playfulness. Does this make sense? What's causing this? Mounting point? Rocker points? I'm wondering this so I can try more skis that ski similar to the protest. (This is not a diss on the MVP, just doesn't seem to be the ski style I'm looking for)

  25. #1125
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    in the trench
    Posts
    10,132
    Id guess its probably the flex. Mvp is 4 and protest 3. Mvp is a playful design and looks like the new one is even more so. Might need to be softened to a 3 for more playful bias. 4 is definitely more business, depending on your weight i guess

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