Aggressor vs Rock Razor?

[sethschmautz]

Bought the aggressor and will be putting that and a DHF on this week. I forgot the tubeless valves which is slowing down this process.

Thanks, all, for your input.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Um. I go fast then brake before the corner. In order to not skid, I push my 200lbs backward. I'm not talking about cornering. Yes, I try to get back forward a little so the front leany knobs can dig in. Although if it's really steep/loose I may stay back and hip steer.
I'm talking about straight line braking. Which the only time I get on the brakes so hard. Before the turn.
And I'm on a hardtail, so I always have to be ready for the rear end to kick up, not just follow the front.

[toast2266]

Most of your braking power comes from your front tire. Shifting your weight backward just means there's less pressure on the front tire, and thus less braking traction available where it matters most. If your back tire is skidding while you're braking before a corner, the answer isn't to shift your weight backwards, it's to grab less rear brake.

[skaredshtles]

Most of your braking power comes from your front tire. Shifting your weight backward just means there's less pressure on the front tire, and thus less braking traction available where it matters most. If your back tire is skidding while you're braking before a corner, the answer isn't to shift your weight backwards, it's to grab less rear brake.

Some people never figure it out...

[stuckathuntermtn]

If I'm going down something steep/loose/rough and /or going fast, I'm def gonna have my weight back.
Why else would we have dropper posts? Why else would downhill bikes be so slack even in the seat?
I'm pretty sure I didn't make up this move your butt backward thing. It was probably explained to me by someone or something.
And when I don't do it, I go splat, or I feel like I'm going to.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I don't see how this is at all controversial.

[toast2266]

If I'm going down something steep/loose/rough and /or going fast, I'm def gonna have my weight back.

Unless the trail is fairly steep, you're doing it wrong.

Why else would we have dropper posts?

To make it easier to get lower, and so the seat doesn't get in the way in corners. And to get behind the seat in certain situations, but on most trails that aren't all that steep, that movement is just momentary (like when pumping through a roller)

Why else would downhill bikes be so slack even in the seat?

Because they have 8" of travel and a slack seat tube is usually necessary to keep the wheel from hitting the frame at bottom out. And I have no idea what that has to do with body positioning while braking.

I'm pretty sure I didn't make up this move your butt backward thing. It was probably explained to me by someone or something.
And when I don't do it, I go splat, or I feel like I'm going to.

You didn't make it up - lots of people do it, especially beginners. And it's an easy thing to tell a new rider that's worried about endoing and sucks at controlling their brakes and can't read the terrain very well. But watch any good rider - they're keeping their weight centered or slightly forward unless the trail is pretty damn steep. And by pretty damn steep, I mean way steeper than anything in missoula.



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[evasive_MT]

See for yourself. The next time you’re braking in a straight line, try shifting your weight forward. The change in traction and braking response is dramatic.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I'll try. Had to abort my last ride because of smoke

[californiagrown]

If I'm going down something steep/loose/rough and /or going fast, I'm def gonna have my weight back.
Why else would we have dropper posts? Why else would downhill bikes be so slack even in the seat?
I'm pretty sure I didn't make up this move your butt backward thing. It was probably explained to me by someone or something.
And when I don't do it, I go splat, or I feel like I'm going to.

Similar to skiing, when you are going mach chicken straightlining through steep chunder/moguls you will be sitting back slightly but kinda out of control. But when you are charging through that same stuff and making turns you will be centered or forward driving the tips.

When biking, the only time you should be ass over tire is when doing slow speed techy drops, uber steep tight twisty stuff where you are counter steering and drifting the rear wheel around, or when blasting into a rock garden and letting your suspension work out the details. Otherwise, to remain in control you need to be generally weighting front and back wheels so that your tires can grip and you are balanced enough to make quick athletic moves with the bike - front, back, and side-to-side.

i have the opposite problem. When shit turns gnarly and steep and i get a little out of control my reaction is to get over the front (like you would in skiing) so that i can drive the bike harder. Unfortunately, this usually has the opposite effect and if i don't go OTB immediately, i usually wash my front tire, or get even more out of control. The key is to stay balanced as much as possible.

[carlh]

I think the proper answer to this problem is to buy a longer bike. My next bike will be at least 60mm longer reach and 70+mm longer in wheelbase so I can driver the front wheel on steeper terrain. I just need the funds to make it happen.

Similar to skiing, when you are going mach chicken straightlining through steep chunder/moguls you will be sitting back slightly but kinda out of control. But when you are charging through that same stuff and making turns you will be centered or forward driving the tips.

When biking, the only time you should be ass over tire is when doing slow speed techy drops, uber steep tight twisty stuff where you are counter steering and drifting the rear wheel around, or when blasting into a rock garden and letting your suspension work out the details. Otherwise, to remain in control you need to be generally weighting front and back wheels so that your tires can grip and you are balanced enough to make quick athletic moves with the bike - front, back, and side-to-side.

i have the opposite problem. When shit turns gnarly and steep and i get a little out of control my reaction is to get over the front (like you would in skiing) so that i can drive the bike harder. Unfortunately, this usually has the opposite effect and if i don't go OTB immediately, i usually wash my front tire, or get even more out of control. The key is to stay balanced as much as possible.

[toast2266]

I think the proper answer to this problem is to buy a longer bike. My next bike will be at least 60mm longer reach and 70+mm longer in wheelbase so I can driver the front wheel on steeper terrain. I just need the funds to make it happen.

I think some of it is having a longer bike, but a lot of it is just having a slacker head tube. If the whole bike gets longer, it makes things more stable and makes it so you're less likely to endo, but at some point it just becomes hard to weight the front wheel because your feet are still in the same place, but your body position to get over the front becomes unnatural because the handlebars are too far away. But if you just slacken the headtube, you put the front wheel further out in front of you and lengthen the wheelbase, but the handlebar stays in (more or less) the same place relative to the bottom bracket, so you don't have to stretch yourself into a weird body position.

Obviously this matters more at the extremes. But if I went 60mm longer on the reach from my current bike, I think it'd be basically unridable.

[californiagrown]

I think the proper answer to this problem is to buy a longer bike. My next bike will be at least 60mm longer reach and 70+mm longer in wheelbase so I can driver the front wheel on steeper terrain. I just need the funds to make it happen.

meh, i have a 2017 RM Slayer. The problem is with me, not the bike haha.

[grskier]

I have found with my new bike (much longer) that I am learning my body positioning some again... I had a weird OTB run out on a sandy trail because I probably had a tad more front brake... the whole bike didn't go over though, I was able to do a up and over the bars thing.... But it when I got up I realized it was about different bike handling some... and a bunch of user error.

And I think it's hilarious that from first post to now, in just 2 pages we made it about body weight and not tires.

[sethschmautz]

What do you mean it isn't about the tires?! This is totally about tires for my wife's bike...


... And I told her that because I got her the aggressor, she should keep her weight centered when cornering. If I would have gotten her the Rock Razors she should lean back - especially when straight line breaking - unless we were riding in Missoula because it's not steep enough there to lean back.

What did I miss?

Seth

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[D(C)]

What did I miss?

I don't think you missed anything. That about sums it up.

[grinch]

I’d recommend the wifey do less breaking and more braking. I’m not much help though

[toast2266]

^^^ this guy knows bicycling.

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[sethschmautz]

I’d recommend the wifey do less breaking and more braking. I’m not much help though

Hmmm... Maybe I didn't understand as well as I thought I did. I thought this thread was about aggressive breaking.

I'm going to have to rethink this.

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[NW_SKIER]

I'm always fixing my bike. Maybe I should lean back more and break less.

[lifelinksplit]

Um. I go fast then brake before the corner. In order to not skid, I push my 200lbs backward. I'm not talking about cornering. Yes, I try to get back forward a little so the front leany knobs can dig in. Although if it's really steep/loose I may stay back and hip steer.
I'm talking about straight line braking. Which the only time I get on the brakes so hard. Before the turn.
And I'm on a hardtail, so I always have to be ready for the rear end to kick up, not just follow the front.

Holy shit! Is stucky...mtngrl? Mindblown

[grskier]

I'm always fixing my bike. Maybe I should lean back more and break less.

lean back until you manual out... right!?

[ShoNuff]

lean back until you manual out... right!?

then you just feather the rear brake a little. oops, thread drift. sorry...

[californiagrown]

then you just feather the rear brake a little. oops, thread drift. sorry...

What kind of feather do you use?

[stuckathuntermtn]

Too fucking smokey around here now to ride anyway. blegh. Still doesn't feel right to brake hard without shifting backward, what with everything feeling like it wants to flip over forwards.