Sterbenz gone from 4frnt, end of an era

[F#*k you cat]

JLev
Thanks for the insight. More importantly thanks for being honest here. The guys over at backcountry.com are glad 4FRNT is still viable. Hoji is a god to most of the hard core rippers over there.
Continued
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[F#*k you cat]

Myself personally am a Line guy. I have been skiing line, original Mothership, Prophet, EP pro, Opus for quite some time. I fancy the pesado / just have to pull the trigger on a pair. That said I can't seem to find any EP pros anymore via the used ski market. So if you have an unmounted pair somewhere in a warehouse I'd be keen on putting them to good use here in Utah. PM me if you have a spare pair.

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[gaijin]

let's start an undercover maggot flat ski delivery to japan etc

we find when we ski trip that we each needed to bring our own ski bags (used to try to combine but often ends up more complicated/ expensive)
So means many will have ski bag weight room for a flat ski for mags - japanese mags just pay for your delivery person's drinks or something- $50 boom

That would be rad for people all over the world-- given our lifestyles. Perhaps a sticky thread?

Regardless, I usually just ship to my parents' house stateside and they forward it on if I run into any kind of "We don't ship international." or whatever.

Moment has a free worldwide shipping program... so... whatever. I don't believe this 300$ "We simply pass this real cost on to you." bs at all.

[XavierD]

Y’all really want to make a sticky about international smuggling?

[babybear]

carried new skis for friends on 2 different euro trips and I'm still here to talk about it
One was a fellow ski patroller who was spending the winter in the alps and his preseason order didn't arrive before he left.
2nd time was for a boyfriend and this was like 17-18 yo so the shipping options would have even been more limited.
I was basically horah'd around town all week by he and his friends for that so I guess delivering skis to happy recipients left a positive imprint on my brain
I'd do it again

[JLev]

Oh... I thought you were being facetious. You just copy/pasted from the website. Ouch. It suddenly just became cheaper to buy something retail here.

I'd recommend a real shipping calculator on the order page. A flat rate like that is obviously not accurate for Japan.

And the language... my lord. Again, I thought rewbn was trolling us. I feel like a laughed-at-asshole for simply reading that page.

We actually previously offered free shipping world wide + we pre paid duties and tax until we finally realized we were loosing money. You can check Fedex ship rates very easily to see that Europe or Japan is over $200 shipping + unkown duty/tax which is easily $100+ depending on the country = $300+ final cost.

We simply can't afford to loose money shipping international.

HOWEVER, I do appreciate the perspective, so I just updated the website to basically share the shipping expense for International orders. I updated to a flat rate of $200 and we will continue to additionally pre-pay any duty any tax so no mystery of what you'll be charged beyond the shipping. We believe that is very fair.

Anyone charging less will quickly realize as we did the past few years, you loose money selling skis interantionally.

You can look up REAL costs in seconds on Fedex

[snapt]

Y’all really want to make a sticky about international smuggling?

I was the largest Thomas and Thomas fly rod dealer in the US a longgggg time ago...I was just reshipping them to Japan. Sold one or two at retail a year, sales rep could have cared less so long as he was getting his checks.

[gaijin]

Welp, there it is. JLev killing it again.

Amazing how much shipping has gone up in the last five years.

[waxman]

JLev, here's a question re: not being profitable with Line, 4frnt and/or Armada (not you but I'd guess you'd know).
3 basically "athlete driven companies" that couldn't make money and all sold to or pawned off on other entitities, is the "athlete driven" model flawed? As you know from even this forum and/or newschoolers everyone think they're pro so they should get a deal. Doesn't selling skis for what they're actually worth and not offering "deals" make more sense?

[XavierD]

You can check Fedex ship rates very easily to see that Europe or Japan is over $200 shipping + unkown duty/tax which is easily $100+ depending on the country = $300+ final cost.

We simply can't afford to loose money shipping internationally

You don’t get an account discount? Weird, you must be the only retailer paying consumer costs for international (or domestic) shipping. Maybe give your shipping agent and customs broker a call to get a decent account discount and known and consistent import duty costs. You know, like every other buesiness does...

[detrusor]

Shit! I just placed a hat and shirt order before seeing the safety last sticker. How can I add a couple of those?


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[mntlion]

Shit! I just placed a hat and shirt order before seeing the safety last sticker. How can I add a couple of those?


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crap, where are the stickers on the site?

yes, I even searched

[Flyoverland Captive]

I had forgotten about this gem until now, so thanks for that...



[/DRIFT]

[Supermoon]

JLev, here's a question re: not being profitable with Line, 4frnt and/or Armada (not you but I'd guess you'd know).
3 basically "athlete driven companies" that couldn't make money and all sold to or pawned off on other entitities, is the "athlete driven" model flawed? As you know from even this forum and/or newschoolers everyone think they're pro so they should get a deal. Doesn't selling skis for what they're actually worth and not offering "deals" make more sense?

The average skier skis something like 7-10 days a year with mean probably falling to like 5 days a year.

People who ski freeride, park or powder skis are like ~2% of all skiers. That’s the market ALL of the athlete driven companies are competing in. Think how many brands out there are competing for like 50k customers worldwide. Also this group is the most likely group to have pro-deals, industry friends, etc and you can see how these companies are struggling to make a profit.

They are also either constrained on the production side by financing their own construction (ON3P model) or paying a factory like Elan or Atomic to make them for you (4FRNT and Armada). Both have distinct disadvantages when you try to scale or make product changes.

Add in staff, R&D fees, sponsorship costs, etc. not a lot of meat left on the bone.

Big brands can break even or even take small losses on their flagship skis and then sell 50k entry level skis at Dicks Sporting Goods.

[t-the-east]

Challenge Q: How can you be so skinny and live so fat?

Super Challenge Q: As CEO of both J and 4FRNT, are you the Maestro?


PM me for details.

These are some seriously intriguing questions. Thanks JLev for taking time out of your day to answer such hard hitting inquiries

[detrusor]

Hey mntlion

https://jskis.com/collections/accessories/stickers

[meter-man]

These are some seriously intriguing questions. Thanks JLev for taking time out of your day to answer such hard hitting inquiries

Hahaha. I didn't want him to get skerd and run away!

[Kirby]

Hey J - now that 4FRNT are being made in Canada, you totally have to bring back the Pil graphic...



Consider this the first preorder.

[XXX-er]

The average skier skis something like 7-10 days a year with mean probably falling to like 5 days a year.

People who ski freeride, park or powder skis are like ~2% of all skiers. That’s the market ALL of the athlete driven companies are competing in. Think how many brands out there are competing for like 50k customers worldwide. Also this group is the most likely group to have pro-deals, industry friends, etc and you can see how these companies are struggling to make a profit.

They are also either constrained on the production side by financing their own construction (ON3P model) or paying a factory like Elan or Atomic to make them for you (4FRNT and Armada). Both have distinct disadvantages when you try to scale or make product changes.

Add in staff, R&D fees, sponsorship costs, etc. not a lot of meat left on the bone.

Big brands can break even or even take small losses on their flagship skis and then sell 50k entry level skis at Dicks Sporting Goods.

Off season price on 4FRNT skis is 600$ which doesn't seem like a lot of money

maybe they need to charge mo money ?

[Timberridge]

Nice. I can finance the stickers.

[TahoeJ]

People who ski freeride, park or powder skis are like ~2% of all skiers.

Uhhhhhhh.... not sure where you got that info, but no.

[Supermoon]

Uhhhhhhh.... not sure where you got that info, but no.

I just made it up, but from what I see it’s close. I would love to see real numbers if they exist

[mntlion]

Hey mntlion

https://jskis.com/collections/accessories/stickers

Thanks, I was looking in 4frnt site

[t-the-east]

Nice. I can finance the stickers.

J really has thought of everything! With finance charges, that sticker should be paid off In just over a year!!

[Self Jupiter]

anyone interested in a 193 EHP set I’m gonna unload? love the ski but it’s got limited use where I live and is hard to justify as a travel ski in my existing quiver.

Chinese water color Currently mounted -8 (the line) with Tyrolia Attack 16 for 295. One previous mount was incorrectly mounted like -14CM . I don’t think there are other mounts but I’m not 100% sure and I’m hesitant to take the binders off. Repaired tail edge compression which was common until they put plastic back there.

Would let them go cheap