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  1. #151
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Burlington, VT
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by t-the-east View Post
    J really has thought of everything! With finance charges, that sticker should be paid off In just over a year!!
    hilarious! actually all financing including on all our skis, bindings... yes even stickers is actually 0% (INTEREST FREE) for 6 months on all products, you can afford $0.16 mth

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Burlington, VT
    Posts
    107
    thanks, will share w Hoji

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Burlington, VT
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by waxman View Post
    JLev, here's a question re: not being profitable with Line, 4frnt and/or Armada (not you but I'd guess you'd know).
    3 basically "athlete driven companies" that couldn't make money and all sold to or pawned off on other entitities, is the "athlete driven" model flawed? As you know from even this forum and/or newschoolers everyone think they're pro so they should get a deal. Doesn't selling skis for what they're actually worth and not offering "deals" make more sense?
    Yes selling skis for what they're worth is optimal but the value of a product like you know is based on supply and demand. The REAL PROBLEM in the ski industry is large brands over produce simply to maintain factory minimums required to deal with unions and hit undreasonably large budget goals by public companies. This puts too much product in the market, leading to over supply and under demand = everyone has to sell for less than the product is worth. In the end small brands don't have a chance in hell of beating the big companies low prices to dealers and end up simply not getting their product into shops or doing so by selling too cheap and loosing money. Only solution, sell direct so you can sell less qty, at higher margin and pay your bills... no longer being part of the low price race to the bottom retail store game the big guys can all afford to play.

    Prodeal discounts and some flowed free product to influencers is part of normal marketing and is not what is making small brands loose money as long as they keep to a reasonable % of total sales.

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Burlington, VT
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    You don’t get an account discount? Weird, you must be the only retailer paying consumer costs for international (or domestic) shipping. Maybe give your shipping agent and customs broker a call to get a decent account discount and known and consistent import duty costs. You know, like every other buesiness does...
    Thanks for the push. My warehouse passes on to me a 20% discount which at end of day still puts it over $200. Shipping a few thousand boxes a year in the real world unfortunately does not impress Fedex or UPS. I have since lowered the shipping to $200 for international orders but keeped FREE shipping to US and Canada for J and 4FRNT.

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    115
    Thanks JLev - for being on here, saving 4frnt, being an innovator, continuing to disrupt. A few things...
    - Love the Hoji Q&A last night! Can't wait for his movie to come thru town
    - Another big vote for the EHP limited release (w/ pils graphics!) - while the Ren is more refined, the EHP is still different enough @ 40M
    - Just picked up some Ravens a month ago and debating in my head adding the new lighter Ren to the quiver... it's just skiing, and money

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Cowtown
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by m104da View Post
    - Another big vote for the EHP limited release (w/ pils graphics!) - while the Ren is more refined, the EHP is still different enough @ 40M
    Count me in. I’m still regularly skiing mine.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,442
    Buy my 193 EHPs before they hit GS! Chinese water color graphic too

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    champlain valley
    Posts
    5,280
    ^they are a good deal

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    42
    Grew up skiing in the SW, transitioned to snowboarding (who doesn't like powder on a board?), use to be able to ski / ride anything I wanted hard, then all of the sudden... (college + work + lived in all the wrong places = 15 year absence from heavy duty snow life). Decided to change that, back out west, been a long road (~3 years) getting back to form + getting f'n geared up proper (tough, but on the path to righteousness finally, thx 4frnt, screw rosignol souless 7 and the BB old guy salesman who does not know any better).

    I run the 4frn rens, ravens, and devs. Looking to add last year hoji on a lightweight tour binding (if I can find a boot that I like).

    Thanks for adding the ski specs to the 4frnt website for ease of access and transparency. Can you add the ski edge angles?

    Suggestion: Make 4frnt website a one stop shop for all base supplies specific to skis, i.e. sell all the stuff for people to 'mount their own f'n bindings' and tune. Sell demo bindings. I had heck trying to find a shop to mount tyrolia adrenalines on some 4frnt skis. I ended up mounting my own f'n bindings.

    The shop I consulted who had a tyrolia adrenaline jig talked down 4frnt after 4frnt started to sell direct. My response, well there are plenty of dentists and rosignol souless 7s...

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1
    Hope something change so it will be feasible again buy 4frnt ski from outside usa....

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    17
    Thanks for saving 4frnt JLev!

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by JLev View Post
    Thanks for the push. My warehouse passes on to me a 20% discount which at end of day still puts it over $200. Shipping a few thousand boxes a year in the real world unfortunately does not impress Fedex or UPS. I have since lowered the shipping to $200 for international orders but keeped FREE shipping to US and Canada for J and 4FRNT.
    I understand that that's what it costs you. But at the end of the day it still keeps international buyers like me from buying 4frnt and looking towards Moments free shipping.

    Sent from my DRA-LX3 using TGR Forums mobile app

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    YetiMan
    Posts
    11,569
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Jeezuz.........Jlev invented twin tips just as Shane invented rocker. He fucking walked on water. Change is inevitable. Embrace it.

    It's really fucking hard to make it in the ski biz unless you cater to a skier demographic that will support the business through sufficient purchases that will then allow the creativity to achieve innovation. Jason might as well have invented park rats. And that's a good demographic. As are freeskiers and freeskier wannnabes. It takes a while to develop a ski catalog that has something for everyone.

    When J made bank on the twintips, he dropped an assload of cashish to create a binding that would save your knees. It didn't fly but he rolled those fucking dice for the protection and betterment of skierkind.
    I understand the exclamatory tone the site might exude for a much younger crowd than exists here.

    But I'm here to wish you the best, J. Your life and soul have occupied the ski space for long time and I respect you for that.
    HE SAVED THE GOD DAMN FLEXON

    ffs ppl have some respect!

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    76
    After reading this thread I will consider 4frnt skis for purchase in the near future.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    United States of Aburdistan
    Posts
    6,653
    Quote Originally Posted by vegas View Post
    Grew up skiing in the SW, transitioned to snowboarding (who doesn't like powder on a board?), use to be able to ski / ride anything I wanted hard, then all of the sudden... (college + work + lived in all the wrong places = 15 year absence from heavy duty snow life). Decided to change that, back out west, been a long road (~3 years) getting back to form + getting f'n geared up proper (tough, but on the path to righteousness finally, thx 4frnt, screw rosignol souless 7 and the BB old guy salesman who does not know any better).

    I run the 4frn rens, ravens, and devs. Looking to add last year hoji on a lightweight tour binding (if I can find a boot that I like).

    Thanks for adding the ski specs to the 4frnt website for ease of access and transparency. Can you add the ski edge angles?

    Suggestion: Make 4frnt website a one stop shop for all base supplies specific to skis, i.e. sell all the stuff for people to 'mount their own f'n bindings' and tune. Sell demo bindings. I had heck trying to find a shop to mount tyrolia adrenalines on some 4frnt skis. I ended up mounting my own f'n bindings.

    The shop I consulted who had a tyrolia adrenaline jig talked down 4frnt after 4frnt started to sell direct. My response, well there are plenty of dentists and rosignol souless 7s...
    How did you hook up your typewriter to your computer?

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    2,148
    JLev gone from 4FRNT.

    (What, no TGR love for 4frnt these days??)

    4FRNT Ski Company Gets New Owners

    Company will continue to double down on direct-to-consumer model and athlete-inspired products

    4FRNT Ski Company has been acquired by a group of private entrepreneurs from Jason Levinthal. The new owners Charlie Johnson, Will Armenta and Ebi Lange, are longtime friends, entrepreneurs, and passionate skiers. They are motivated by the purity and dedication of the 4FRNT brand to freeride skiing, and are eager to continue to elevate the company’s founding mission of collaborating with pro athletes to develop the industry’s most innovative and award-winning freeride products.

    Jason, a 25-year ski industry pioneer, who has founded and led several ski companies, says, “Converting this brand over the past three years from traditional retail distribution to ecommerce while modernizing the product line and digital marketing strategy has enabled 4FRNT to grow and achieve financial stability. It’s only been possible thanks to the hard work and passion of every 4FRNT athlete, supplier, employee, and customer over the past 18 years. I feel fortunate to have been a part of this brand’s rich history and I couldn’t be happier with the new leadership taking the reins from here.”

    In addition to the growth of consumer interest in backcountry skiing, the new owners were attracted by 4FRNT’s outsized reputation within the industry, athlete-driven product development process, and lean direct-to-consumer business model. Charlie Johnson who lives in Winter Park, Colorado and has previously competed in big mountain competitions says, “It’s a dream to be so closely involved with a company I’ve admired and been a customer of for years. As we got to know the team and business model, it felt like a perfect fit. We couldn’t be more excited about the current award-winning ski line-up and feel a deep sense of responsibility to continue 4FRNT’s legacy while investing in its future.”

    “Today’s environment is accelerating the pace of consumer’s transition to e-commerce and 4FRNT has a proven head start in the ski industry. We’re eager to provide resources and guidance around the customer experience to advance its lead,” says Will Armenta, a product management executive at a leading Silicon Valley technology firm, who invests in- and advises fast-growing digital brands.

    Ebi Lange was heavily involved in the 2008 acquisition and turnaround of Rossignol, so he understands first-hand what it takes to run an efficient seasonal manufacturing business. Ebi says, “We have no intention of changing 4FRNT into something it’s not. Our goal is to reinforce and permanently solidify the brand’s values that got it here. We’ll continue working with its current athletes, employees and suppliers, as responsible stewards of the 4FRNT brand, while providing the resources to take it to the next level.”

    4FRNT’s marketing manager Sam Kimmerle has been integral in driving the brand in recent years and will assume the role of Brand Manager. He will continue to collaborate with Eric Hjorleifson “HOJI”, Thayne Rich, and other athletes who are involved in content creation and product development.

    Legendary big mountain freeride skier and product designer HOJI says, “I’ve been with 4FRNT since its humble beginning and I’m happy to have the opportunity to continue working with the new ownership. I value their commitment to pushing the envelope of product development and look forward to what we can accomplish together.”
    Who are these guys, and what they gonna do??

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    115
    Love 4frnt, and psyched to see what the new owners gonna do. My take is that JLev really stablized 4frnt as a company, but that his heart was/is more in J skis. So good outcome if 4frnt can stay sustainable with some new passionate owners. We'll see. That can be a tough needle to thread. I hope they keep hoji on board (and thayne too). And keep the ski line up pretty tight. Also hope employees are aok through the transition

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    14
    Nothing brand wise is changing! We are focusing on reaching new customers with our current product line and continuing along with our current trajectory. In terms of athletes Hoji just signed a 3 years contract under the new ownership and Thayne's promodel and involvement in product development will continue. Business as usual over here, just working our asses off to keep the ball rolling in the right direction 👊

  19. #169
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Sonoma
    Posts
    11,954
    Congrats on the sale JLev. Glad you were able to save the brand and deliver it to this point.

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by JLev View Post
    The REAL PROBLEM in the ski industry is large brands over produce simply to maintain factory minimums required to deal with unions and hit undreasonably large budget goals by public companies. This puts too much product in the market, leading to over supply and under demand = everyone has to sell for less than the product is worth. In the end small brands don't have a chance in hell of beating the big companies low prices to dealers and end up simply not getting their product into shops or doing so by selling too cheap and loosing money. Only solution, sell direct so you can sell less qty, at higher margin and pay your bills... no longer being part of the low price race to the bottom retail store game the big guys can all afford to play.
    What happens when large brands start selling direct?

  21. #171
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Sonoma
    Posts
    11,954
    Quote Originally Posted by alude View Post
    What happens when large brands start selling direct?
    They won’t. Shops do a lot of work for them and your average (not TGR) skier still relies on that shop experience.

  22. #172
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    They won’t. Shops do a lot of work for them and your average (not TGR) skier still relies on that shop experience.
    Yeah, but that shop experience is not optimal for the large brands either, right? The shop presents other products to customers and create a challenging disconnect between the brand and their customers in a data driven era. If small brands continue to push the price down with direct sales, larger brands will have to match that sooner rather than later. Many large brands have already moved to direct sales: Nike, Bauer, Decathlon, Apple, etc. It might not be totally black or white, but you can already buy ski online directly from G3, DPS, Blizzard, ...

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