Results 101 to 125 of 172
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08-09-2018, 06:53 AM #101
It's all being consolidated, mate. This is progress in trying to find the happy medium and not destroy the lives of employees in the process. This is the viable formation of the micro-brew.
This is controlled evolution. And for that, we should all be supporting this transition more than any other acquisition. Salomon/Atomic et al. They're forming the mass-produced umbrella corps.
This move is a few local micros all coming together for a common ground.
I just hope we keep the designers at the heart of all acquisitions.
Please keep Hoji and all athletes at the front and center of everything you do.
Not many public skiers will know of Cody's contribution to the shift. And that is brutal.
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08-09-2018, 09:29 AM #102Registered User
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Instead of demo, both brands have 100% Money Back Gaurantee. If you don't like product for any reason after few days of use, return them for a full refund or swap out for different size, model. Very few demo centers, link at footer of websites
I give full attention to both equally just like proved was possible when I was running Full Tilt & Line skis. It's in my best interest as the owner and my income coming from both. I also work with the best in the business who's personal perspective, skills, skiing interest, and experience perfectly match the unique aspects of each brand they drive, no employee of one would ever work for the other, they wouldn't fit the brand's position.
I make sure the brands make smart decisions that not only perfectly fit the brand's unique DNA and heritage but also keep them financially sustainable. I've spent over 23 years making mistakes in the ski industry, so although some of my decisions are nontraditional, they're all based on not making the same mistake twice.
The reason we're having this conversation is because 4FRNT is still in business. The reason I own it is because it may not have otherwise been without leveraging my ecommerce experience. (Matt clearly states in interviews that it's been unprofitable for 15 years). No fault of his, the traditional retail business model simply does not work when selling less than 30k pr skis per yr. 4FRNT hit it's glass ceiling selling approx 4,000 pair through retailers and distributors. I hit same glass ceiling when I owned Line, and 15 yrs into it sold to K2 to gain their resources and keep it in business.
So... you can't expect things to change without making a change.
Regarding difference, they couldn't be more different brands. Only thing shared is being small independent, and their back-end operations.
ATITTUDE
J = wild style, creative, make fun of ourselves & sport, sarcastic, tongue and cheek humor, don't care what others think, expect the unexpected
4FRNT = Technical, seek and explore, deep conversation and story telling, knowledge is power to have more fun
IMAGE
J = freestyle, young, more fun
4FRNT = freeride, experienced, more adventure
PRODUCT
J = Award winning products designed by a real person you know and trust, Jason Levinthal. Backed by decades of credibility, hundreds of thousands of skiers own and love JLev's products. All skis camber with rocker tips, mostly twin tip, deep sidecut, for most versatile equal firm and soft snow performance.
4FRNT = Award winning products designed by real pros you know and trust, Hoji, Thayne, and rest of powder hound team who's ideas and actual hands on involvement guarantee best performance and reliability possible. Some camber with rocker tips but many pow skis feature proprietary reverse camber geometry and flatter tails for optimized powder & touring performance, with firm snow less priority.
ONE-OF-A-KIND
J = All skis built in Limited Edition graphic qtys. Collabs w artists, each hand signed & numbered by JLev, you have ski like no one else.
4FRNT = All skis sold under $599 "capped pricing" enables skiers to get the skis they want instead of the ski they can afford by cutting out the middle man selling direct... skiers get more for their money!
CUSTOMER
J = Young at heart, eager to stand out from the rest, fun is most important, mostly in bounds resort terrain
4FRNT = Experienced, eager to earn turns for optimal downhill pow fun, mostly backcountry adventurous terrain
TOP SALES TERRITORIES
J = #1 Colorado, #2 VT, #10 Utah
4FRNT = #1 Colorado, #2 Utah, #10 Vermont
There's dozens more points of differentiation but let me know what you think for starts after visiting the websites 4FRNT.com (we just completely redesigned and Matt and rest of team is extremely proud) & Jskis.com. Also I hope our actions speak will speak more than words demonstrating the strong and authentic differentiation of the two brands, just as you'd see from any other strong and unique brands on the market.
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08-09-2018, 10:04 AM #103
Appreciate the thorough and thoughtful answer! Thanks for that. Best of luck.
And double thanks for keeping 4FRNT around - tough biz. Love my Ravens, and hoping to get on some Rens before too long. MSP 107s look rad too for an all-mountain slayer. That money back guarantee is mental...but enticing.
New 4FRNT site is quite nice. Well done. (One minor note: the text on the core profile for both the Ren and the Raven is the same. Not sure if that's intentional or not. Seems odd to have the same core in the Ren as the Raven given their different use profiles.)
I'm too old to understand what's happening over at J though haha.sproing!
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08-09-2018, 10:05 AM #104
Appreciate JLev's time and in depth responses
Originally Posted by blurred
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08-09-2018, 10:15 AM #105
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08-09-2018, 10:19 AM #106
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08-09-2018, 10:24 AM #107
Jlev- we might be aggressive and rude around here, but on the flip side if industry types took the care and effort in to their responses as you have, perhaps they would get a better reaction. Nice work.
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08-09-2018, 10:31 AM #108
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08-09-2018, 10:40 AM #109Banned
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- Sep 2012
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Thanks for that very thorough answer Jlev
Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
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08-09-2018, 07:39 PM #110
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08-09-2018, 10:54 PM #111
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08-09-2018, 11:34 PM #112
Hmm and I just got a new pair of last years renegades. How does the new compare? They are yet to be drilled
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08-10-2018, 03:37 AM #113Registered User
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- Aug 2015
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- Burlington, VT
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- 108
Did that one last year
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08-10-2018, 04:01 AM #114Registered User
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- Aug 2015
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- Burlington, VT
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Originally seemed logical to respond to anonymous people saying prick, sarcastic, antagonizing, unfounded comments about me with a similar tone sarcastically... I couldn't possibly take them seriously right?! Assumed those on here that lived to dish it out, could also take it... last thing I'd expect is for them to be wining about it... let alone ten years later.
I've since accepted the unfortunate reality that I'm apparently held to a higher standard. Maybe because I don't hide under an alias? or for some weird reason simply because I have a job making skis, so I'm expected to respond like I'm wearing a suit working on wallstreet?
Would be nice to act like I'm hanging here with a bunch of friends giving each other shit in the gondola like others. Obviously not accepted by the few who act one way, yet criticize others that respond with the same.
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08-10-2018, 04:05 AM #115Registered User
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- Aug 2015
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- Burlington, VT
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- 108
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08-10-2018, 05:21 AM #116
That sounds rad! Thank you.
Yup. MSP99 is my next resort ski. It's competitor was the M5.
I don't demo. I order based on my life's experience, the ski's cult, and on-paper stats. Oh wait... 4FRNT offers a 100% cash back, too? This is a no-brainer.
*edited to add that the CEO of the company responded to my question in a matter of hours.
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08-10-2018, 05:42 AM #117
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08-10-2018, 06:03 AM #118Registered User
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- Oct 2012
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As a long time 4FRNT fan and customer I'm happy to see it not lost to the harsh realities of the ski biz and hats off for being on here J. However you probably need to figure out distribution outside of America. $300 for shipping is just not reasonable and probably something that will put off just about anyone ordering skis outside of America. Figure that out and I'll add on to my already 4FRNT-heavy (Raven-Hojix2-Renegade) quiver this year.
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08-10-2018, 06:20 AM #119
Really?
My '13 Renegades saw no such shipping (import tax?) to Japan. I was stoked at the time to get whiteroom skis to my door in a week at 800US$.
My retail shop was pissed I didn't buy from them.
On a sidetone-- I'll pay shops for services like mounting, boot fitting, tuning, etcetera. but I think the concept of paying for a shop's overhead is long gone simply due to the fact that I can mount, fit boots, and tune on my own.
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08-10-2018, 06:55 AM #120Registered User
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- Oct 2012
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- 56
”REST OF THE WORLD
NO Duty, NO Tax - We pre-pay it!
Shipping cost is $300 and product arrives 5-7 days after shipped. We know $300 sounds like a lot but this is honestly the average price UPS charges us to ship skis from US to International locations and often times it's more! So we simply pass this real cost on to you. If you'd like to order lower priced non-ski products, you'll obviously want to order at the same time with your skis so there is no additional shipping cost for those smaller items.”
A whole lot more then, say $100 + tax and customs which seems to be the norm across the board when ordering skis to Europe from US brands
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08-10-2018, 06:59 AM #121
Trump tariffs?
"timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang
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08-10-2018, 07:13 AM #122
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08-10-2018, 09:49 AM #123
I skied the old MSPs a few years. The new MSP99 look like a good replacement for my Mantras (which replaced the old MSP).
Originally Posted by blurred
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08-10-2018, 05:44 PM #124
Oh... I thought you were being facetious. You just copy/pasted from the website. Ouch. It suddenly just became cheaper to buy something retail here.
I'd recommend a real shipping calculator on the order page. A flat rate like that is obviously not accurate for Japan.
And the language... my lord. Again, I thought rewbn was trolling us. I feel like a laughed-at-asshole for simply reading that page.Last edited by gaijin; 08-11-2018 at 06:41 AM.
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08-10-2018, 06:21 PM #125
let's start an undercover maggot flat ski delivery to japan etc
we find when we ski trip that we each needed to bring our own ski bags (used to try to combine but often ends up more complicated/ expensive)
So means many will have ski bag weight room for a flat ski for mags - japanese mags just pay for your delivery person's drinks or something- $50 boomskid luxury
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