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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Challenge Q: I don't know jack about J Skis -- what differentiates J Skis from 4FRNT? (Also, where can I demo them in CA?)

    Super Challenge Q: As CEO of both J and 4FRNT, how can you give full attention to driving both companies? Is there not an inherent conflict of interest and priorities? While you may be talented, it seems like an impossible conflict to resolve. Therefore, I recommend you hire me to take over as CEO of 4FRNT.

    PM me for details.
    It's all being consolidated, mate. This is progress in trying to find the happy medium and not destroy the lives of employees in the process. This is the viable formation of the micro-brew.

    This is controlled evolution. And for that, we should all be supporting this transition more than any other acquisition. Salomon/Atomic et al. They're forming the mass-produced umbrella corps.

    This move is a few local micros all coming together for a common ground.

    I just hope we keep the designers at the heart of all acquisitions.

    Please keep Hoji and all athletes at the front and center of everything you do.

    Not many public skiers will know of Cody's contribution to the shift. And that is brutal.

  2. #102
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    Aug 2015
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    107
    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Challenge Q: I don't know jack about J Skis -- what differentiates J Skis from 4FRNT? (Also, where can I demo them in CA?)

    Super Challenge Q: As CEO of both J and 4FRNT, how can you give full attention to driving both companies? Is there not an inherent conflict of interest and priorities? While you may be talented, it seems like an impossible conflict to resolve. Therefore, I recommend you hire me to take over as CEO of 4FRNT.

    PM me for details.
    Instead of demo, both brands have 100% Money Back Gaurantee. If you don't like product for any reason after few days of use, return them for a full refund or swap out for different size, model. Very few demo centers, link at footer of websites

    I give full attention to both equally just like proved was possible when I was running Full Tilt & Line skis. It's in my best interest as the owner and my income coming from both. I also work with the best in the business who's personal perspective, skills, skiing interest, and experience perfectly match the unique aspects of each brand they drive, no employee of one would ever work for the other, they wouldn't fit the brand's position.

    I make sure the brands make smart decisions that not only perfectly fit the brand's unique DNA and heritage but also keep them financially sustainable. I've spent over 23 years making mistakes in the ski industry, so although some of my decisions are nontraditional, they're all based on not making the same mistake twice.

    The reason we're having this conversation is because 4FRNT is still in business. The reason I own it is because it may not have otherwise been without leveraging my ecommerce experience. (Matt clearly states in interviews that it's been unprofitable for 15 years). No fault of his, the traditional retail business model simply does not work when selling less than 30k pr skis per yr. 4FRNT hit it's glass ceiling selling approx 4,000 pair through retailers and distributors. I hit same glass ceiling when I owned Line, and 15 yrs into it sold to K2 to gain their resources and keep it in business.

    So... you can't expect things to change without making a change.

    Regarding difference, they couldn't be more different brands. Only thing shared is being small independent, and their back-end operations.

    ATITTUDE
    J =
    wild style, creative, make fun of ourselves & sport, sarcastic, tongue and cheek humor, don't care what others think, expect the unexpected
    4FRNT = Technical, seek and explore, deep conversation and story telling, knowledge is power to have more fun

    IMAGE
    J =
    freestyle, young, more fun
    4FRNT = freeride, experienced, more adventure

    PRODUCT
    J = Award winning products designed by a real person you know and trust, Jason Levinthal. Backed by decades of credibility, hundreds of thousands of skiers own and love JLev's products. All skis camber with rocker tips, mostly twin tip, deep sidecut, for most versatile equal firm and soft snow performance.
    4FRNT = Award winning products designed by real pros you know and trust, Hoji, Thayne, and rest of powder hound team who's ideas and actual hands on involvement guarantee best performance and reliability possible. Some camber with rocker tips but many pow skis feature proprietary reverse camber geometry and flatter tails for optimized powder & touring performance, with firm snow less priority.

    ONE-OF-A-KIND
    J = All skis built in Limited Edition graphic qtys. Collabs w artists, each hand signed & numbered by JLev, you have ski like no one else.
    4FRNT = All skis sold under $599 "capped pricing" enables skiers to get the skis they want instead of the ski they can afford by cutting out the middle man selling direct... skiers get more for their money!

    CUSTOMER
    J = Young at heart, eager to stand out from the rest, fun is most important, mostly in bounds resort terrain
    4FRNT = Experienced, eager to earn turns for optimal downhill pow fun, mostly backcountry adventurous terrain

    TOP SALES TERRITORIES
    J = #1 Colorado, #2 VT, #10 Utah
    4FRNT = #1 Colorado, #2 Utah, #10 Vermont

    There's dozens more points of differentiation but let me know what you think for starts after visiting the websites 4FRNT.com (we just completely redesigned and Matt and rest of team is extremely proud) & Jskis.com. Also I hope our actions speak will speak more than words demonstrating the strong and authentic differentiation of the two brands, just as you'd see from any other strong and unique brands on the market.

  3. #103
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    Nov 2009
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    CA
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    Appreciate the thorough and thoughtful answer! Thanks for that. Best of luck.

    And double thanks for keeping 4FRNT around - tough biz. Love my Ravens, and hoping to get on some Rens before too long. MSP 107s look rad too for an all-mountain slayer. That money back guarantee is mental...but enticing.

    New 4FRNT site is quite nice. Well done. (One minor note: the text on the core profile for both the Ren and the Raven is the same. Not sure if that's intentional or not. Seems odd to have the same core in the Ren as the Raven given their different use profiles.)

    I'm too old to understand what's happening over at J though haha.

  4. #104
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    Appreciate JLev's time and in depth responses
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  5. #105
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    Mar 2011
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    Magically whisked away to...Delaware
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLev View Post
    I did have one previously but sold out last year and we got bored of it, I actually just released this new shirt with "It's Just Skiing", I'll look into putting this new graphic on a patch on a hat. Will take a month or so but a great idea. Thanks!
    Then how about a "Minimum Skills" normal T..ain't no one wearing a wife beater around here!
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  6. #106
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    Dec 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    I'm too old to understand what's happening over at J though haha.
    Perhaps a Masterblaster with this graphic would be to your liking?

    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  7. #107
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    Aug 2011
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    panhandle locdog
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    Jlev- we might be aggressive and rude around here, but on the flip side if industry types took the care and effort in to their responses as you have, perhaps they would get a better reaction. Nice work.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Kanone View Post
    Haa ha
    Awesome
    Thanks for commenting jLev
    Once again the tough guys on here have been proven to be ignoramuses spewing forth on things they know nothing about.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    J has a history of prickly posts here dating back to ten - fifteen or so years ago

  9. #109
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    Sep 2012
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    Tahoe
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    Thanks for that very thorough answer Jlev


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLev View Post
    Instead of demo, both brands have 100% Money Back Gaurantee. If you don't like product for any reason after few days of use, return them for a full refund.
    Confident, and generous.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    Jlev- we might be aggressive and rude around here, but on the flip side if industry types took the care and effort in to their responses as you have, perhaps they would get a better reaction. Nice work.
    ^^ What he said. ^^

    Oh, and a money back guarantee practically replacing a demo fleet-- that's one of those crazy:genius ideas.

    Both MSPs look like rad all mountain skis. Are they titanal from tip to tail? The 99 replaces two skis in my quiver.

  12. #112
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    Hmm and I just got a new pair of last years renegades. How does the new compare? They are yet to be drilled

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Then how about a "Minimum Skills" normal T..ain't no one wearing a wife beater around here!
    Did that one last year

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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBdude View Post
    J has a history of prickly posts here dating back to ten - fifteen or so years ago
    Originally seemed logical to respond to anonymous people saying prick, sarcastic, antagonizing, unfounded comments about me with a similar tone sarcastically... I couldn't possibly take them seriously right?! Assumed those on here that lived to dish it out, could also take it... last thing I'd expect is for them to be wining about it... let alone ten years later.

    I've since accepted the unfortunate reality that I'm apparently held to a higher standard. Maybe because I don't hide under an alias? or for some weird reason simply because I have a job making skis, so I'm expected to respond like I'm wearing a suit working on wallstreet?

    Would be nice to act like I'm hanging here with a bunch of friends giving each other shit in the gondola like others. Obviously not accepted by the few who act one way, yet criticize others that respond with the same.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    ^^ What he said. ^^

    Oh, and a money back guarantee practically replacing a demo fleet-- that's one of those crazy:genius ideas.

    Both MSPs look like rad all mountain skis. Are they titanal from tip to tail? The 99 replaces two skis in my quiver.
    both MSP 99 and MSP 107 metal stops approx. 10cm from tip and tail in middle of tips radius, to lighten swing weight while maintaining torsional response and dampening under full running surface and effective edge.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLev View Post
    both MSP 99 and MSP 107 metal stops approx. 10cm from tip and tail in middle of tips radius, to lighten swing weight while maintaining torsional response and dampening under full running surface and effective edge.
    That sounds rad! Thank you.

    Yup. MSP99 is my next resort ski. It's competitor was the M5.

    I don't demo. I order based on my life's experience, the ski's cult, and on-paper stats. Oh wait... 4FRNT offers a 100% cash back, too? This is a no-brainer.

    *edited to add that the CEO of the company responded to my question in a matter of hours.

  17. #117
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    Feb 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBdude View Post
    J has a history of prickly posts here dating back to ten - fifteen or so years ago
    J was sooo mean to me when we played broom ball together, so I told on him. Nobody puts baby in the corner!

  18. #118
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    Oct 2012
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    56
    As a long time 4FRNT fan and customer I'm happy to see it not lost to the harsh realities of the ski biz and hats off for being on here J. However you probably need to figure out distribution outside of America. $300 for shipping is just not reasonable and probably something that will put off just about anyone ordering skis outside of America. Figure that out and I'll add on to my already 4FRNT-heavy (Raven-Hojix2-Renegade) quiver this year.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by rewbn View Post
    As a long time 4FRNT fan and customer I'm happy to see it not lost to the harsh realities of the ski biz and hats off for being on here J. However you probably need to figure out distribution outside of America. $300 for shipping is just not reasonable and probably something that will put off just about anyone ordering skis outside of America. Figure that out and I'll add on to my already 4FRNT-heavy (Raven-Hojix2-Renegade) quiver this year.
    Really?

    My '13 Renegades saw no such shipping (import tax?) to Japan. I was stoked at the time to get whiteroom skis to my door in a week at 800US$.

    My retail shop was pissed I didn't buy from them.

    On a sidetone-- I'll pay shops for services like mounting, boot fitting, tuning, etcetera. but I think the concept of paying for a shop's overhead is long gone simply due to the fact that I can mount, fit boots, and tune on my own.

  20. #120
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    Oct 2012
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    56
    ”REST OF THE WORLD

    NO Duty, NO Tax - We pre-pay it!
    Shipping cost is $300 and product arrives 5-7 days after shipped. We know $300 sounds like a lot but this is honestly the average price UPS charges us to ship skis from US to International locations and often times it's more! So we simply pass this real cost on to you. If you'd like to order lower priced non-ski products, you'll obviously want to order at the same time with your skis so there is no additional shipping cost for those smaller items.”

    A whole lot more then, say $100 + tax and customs which seems to be the norm across the board when ordering skis to Europe from US brands

  21. #121
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    Dec 2012
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    Trump tariffs?
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    Trump tariffs?
    From Canada to Europe?

  23. #123
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    I skied the old MSPs a few years. The new MSP99 look like a good replacement for my Mantras (which replaced the old MSP).
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by rewbn View Post
    ”REST OF THE WORLD

    NO Duty, NO Tax - We pre-pay it!
    Shipping cost is $300 and product arrives 5-7 days after shipped. We know $300 sounds like a lot but this is honestly the average price UPS charges us to ship skis from US to International locations and often times it's more! So we simply pass this real cost on to you. If you'd like to order lower priced non-ski products, you'll obviously want to order at the same time with your skis so there is no additional shipping cost for those smaller items.”

    A whole lot more then, say $100 + tax and customs which seems to be the norm across the board when ordering skis to Europe from US brands
    Oh... I thought you were being facetious. You just copy/pasted from the website. Ouch. It suddenly just became cheaper to buy something retail here.

    I'd recommend a real shipping calculator on the order page. A flat rate like that is obviously not accurate for Japan.

    And the language... my lord. Again, I thought rewbn was trolling us. I feel like a laughed-at-asshole for simply reading that page.
    Last edited by gaijin; 08-11-2018 at 06:41 AM.

  25. #125
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    Sep 2007
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    tetons
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    let's start an undercover maggot flat ski delivery to japan etc

    we find when we ski trip that we each needed to bring our own ski bags (used to try to combine but often ends up more complicated/ expensive)
    So means many will have ski bag weight room for a flat ski for mags - japanese mags just pay for your delivery person's drinks or something- $50 boom
    skid luxury

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